Israel president Shimon Peres accuses Britain of pro-Arab bias

[Arl arse]

Yes, I'm sure Israel's neighbours had genocide on their mind when they repeatedly attacked it, fortunately for freedom and democracy they were able to repel the barbarian hordes and ensure that the Middle East retained one functioning liberal democracy.

SD, some people don’t know enough to know that they just don’t know enough, you are one of those people.

[Arl arse]

The Israelis are fucking amateurs:

 

But, but miss they started it.

 

Grow up.

[Strontium]

But, but miss they started it.

 

Grow up.

 

You're missing the point, which is that you can pick any period in history and use it to support all manner of arguments.

 

Posting a map of Israel/Palestine without any context is just misleading.

 

The reason Israel is currently so much bigger than the UN originally planned is partly because this happened:

 

[Arl arse]

How does a defensive action result in the total conquest of someone else's lands? The answer is that it does not. Israel is the aggressor. The maps of Israel then and now prove it.

[ZonkoVille77]

You're missing the point, which is that you can pick any period in history and use it to support all manner of arguments.

 

Posting a map of Israel/Palestine without any context is just misleading.

 

The reason Israel is currently so much bigger than the UN originally planned is partly because this happened:

 

And there's the problem that caused it all. A ridiculous partition plan that was only accepted by Zionists and not by Arabs. The splitting of the land in that manner was shockingly short - sighted.

 

The aim of not splitting up neighbourhoods and villages was a noble one but ultimately it flawed. A north/south divide maybe would have been a better option with people having the choice to move either direction. It might just have worked albeit with less tension than is currently in the region. The displacement wouldn't have been on the scale of the Indian/Pakistan split so could have been done. Who knows.

 

The UN (Britain, France and the US) fucked this up big time.

[Stu Monty]

No, you're presenting a false dichotomy there. You're making it sound like the only alternative to Israeli blockade/occupation/whatever is Hamas. You're also ignoring the impact that a Hamas government has on the freedom of those living in Israel.

 

So long as the Palestinians elect a government that will respect their neighbours' right to live, I don't especially care who they elect.

 

You do make it sound like Israel has been occupying Gaza and the West Bank forever. Once upon a time, neither of those places were blockaded or occupied. If you had any appreciation of why we got from that state to the current state, I'd get a lot less frustrated myself.

It's not a false dichotomy at all you bell. It's a very simple point that of the very many infinite possibilities Hamas alone offers better conditions than the current state of affairs.

 

Not complicated. Unless you want to muddy the water to avoid accepting that simple fact, that is, because it makes your stance of caring about personal freedom look silly.

 

Next time just say: "Yes, fair point".

[Strontium]

Sorry Stu, I think that is short-term thinking. I really do think that, long-term, the best hope for the Palestinian people is the defeat of Hamas, and their replacement by a party (probably Fatah) which doesn't have the genocide of Jews as its primary founding principle. I would be very surprised if Hamas could moderate their stance any more than the Bible-thumping settlers who think that the entirety of Palestine has been promised to them by God could moderate theirs.

[Stu Monty]

Sorry Stu, I think that is short-term thinking. I really do think that, long-term, the best hope for the Palestinian people is the defeat of Hamas, and their replacement by a party (probably Fatah) which doesn't have the genocide of Jews as its primary founding principle. I would be very surprised if Hamas could moderate their stance any more than the Bible-thumping settlers who think that the entirety of Palestine has been promised to them by God could moderate theirs.

Nobody is putting it forward as a plan.

 

You glibly had a pop at the freedom Hamas would offer. It's more than they're currently getting in Gaza.

 

Regardless of whether you accept it or make other distracting points.

[stringvest]

I can't believe you still persisting Stu. SD's just wrong.

[Red Phoenix]

 

http://www.truthdig.com/cartoon/item/weapons_to_israel_20140807

[KopOut]

SD, bit sad when you say you support democracy as long as people vote for who you want, if its Hamas being voted for then that doesnt count.

You're right of course, but the wider issue hasn't changed all the history of Empire. Gaza and Israel are both puppet states. Their puppeteers dont give a flyimg crap for greater humanity.

 

You can argue all you like with SD, but neither of you are getting to the core issue of 'Empire'. Empire always underscores nationalism.

[Coro]

So is the Tory Dog saying the Palestinian's have brought all this on themselves and that life in Gaza before Hamas was a breeze?

[Bobby Hundreds]

That map really from 600 AD? So the world of 1400 years ago is comparable to today. What was the population of the planet then. Plus do the people who live in a land only get considered to be it's natural inhabitants if we deemed they had the correct paperwork. This land is ours.., but we live here... Do you have the paperwork to prove it.... No. Then it's ours fuck off.

 

It boggles the mind that people can go to every length to justify killing hundreds of children. It's not acceptable what's going on over there, no argument will justify it. I pity the person who puts political reasons or defends political reasoning for such actions before they see the absolute horror, cruelty and suffering of fellow human beings. That's not just about isreal it's about britains eagerness for bombs as solutions too alongside all the other fuckers who see human life as worthless and order death like ordering a takeaway. Those with the power should find better solutions but I guess large scale murder is a profitable business.

[Coro]

That map really from 600 AD? So the world of 1400 years ago is comparable to today. What was the population of the planet then. Plus do the people who live in a land only get considered to be it's natural inhabitants if we deemed they had the correct paperwork. This land is ours.., but we live here... Do you have the paperwork to prove it.... No. Then it's ours fuck off.

 

It boggles the mind that people can go to every length to justify killing hundreds of children. It's not acceptable what's going on over there, no argument will justify it. I pity the person who puts political reasons or defends political reasoning for such actions before they see the absolute horror, cruelty and suffering of fellow human beings. That's not just about isreal it's about britains eagerness for bombs as solutions too alongside all the other fuckers who see human life as worthless and order death like ordering a takeaway. Those with the power should find better solutions but I guess large scale murder is a profitable business.

 

You got people lost in a world of symbols and ideas, more in touch with illusions than actual, human suffering.

[VladimirIlyich]

So is the Tory Dog saying the Palestinian's have brought all this on themselves and that life in Gaza before Hamas was a breeze?

So it appears.

 

While Hamas,a group formed in part by Israel,has been democratically elected,the party he supports finished 3rd in a race where they have given themselves a share of the Gold Medal without any democratic support to do so.

Its probably why he's not so hot on democracy.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Sorry Stu, I think that is short-term thinking. I really do think that, long-term, the best hope for the Palestinian people is the defeat of Hamas, and their replacement by a party (probably Fatah) which doesn't have the genocide of Jews as its primary founding principle. I would be very surprised if Hamas could moderate their stance any more than the Bible-thumping settlers who think that the entirety of Palestine has been promised to them by God could moderate theirs.

So get rid of Hamas because they want to wipe out the Jews. But leave the Israeli's to it as they want to wipe out the Arab's?

 

What was it that Israeli minister called for the other day in the Jerusalem Times? Mass Genocide?

 

Give your head a wobble. There is a massive difference to behaviour of Hamas and Israel. The number of Palestinian deaths prove that.

[Jairzinho]

Its not even a relevant comparison. One of them is the oppressor.

 

(This isn't aimed at you, Skids, just what I've heard from loads of people), "Oh, I'm neutral on this". No you're fucking not. Anyone sitting on the fence is legitimising apartheid. Fucking wankers.

[stringvest]

So it appears.

 

While Hamas,a group formed in part by Israel,has been democratically elected,the party he supports finished 3rd in a race where they have given themselves a share of the Gold Medal without any democratic support to do so.

Its probably why he's not so hot on democracy.

 

It's called disproportional representation.  The new thing in town.

[Dougie Do'ins]

The DEC (Disasters Emergency Committee) has launched an appeal in aid of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Our shithouse government is going to match the first £2m raised.

 

You can donate here.

 

http://www.dec.org.uk/?utm_source=Newsnow&utm_campaign=A015&utm_medium=link&utm_content=natnn2

[SammyAftershave]

free image uploading

[SammyAftershave]

Shame on them.

[RedRazor]

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit

 

 

[RedRazor]

That map really from 600 AD? So the world of 1400 years ago is comparable to today. What was the population of the planet then. Plus do the people who live in a land only get considered to be it's natural inhabitants if we deemed they had the correct paperwork. This land is ours.., but we live here... Do you have the paperwork to prove it.... No. Then it's ours fuck off.

 

It boggles the mind that people can go to every length to justify killing hundreds of children. It's not acceptable what's going on over there, no argument will justify it. I pity the person who puts political reasons or defends political reasoning for such actions before they see the absolute horror, cruelty and suffering of fellow human beings. That's not just about isreal it's about britains eagerness for bombs as solutions too alongside all the other fuckers who see human life as worthless and order death like ordering a takeaway. Those with the power should find better solutions but I guess large scale murder is a profitable business.

We didn't have too much of an issue with it after Dresden and the Dam Busting raids did we?

[RedRazor]

It's called disproportional representation.  The new thing in town.

But clearly you are just a Jew hatinf prick. Not because they have done anything in particular - but just because they are Jews.

 

Blah blah vlah you all screech in horror - just go back and read the posts.

[RedRazor]

So get rid of Hamas because they want to wipe out the Jews. But leave the Israeli's to it as they want to wipe out the Arab's?

 

What was it that Israeli minister called for the other day in the Jerusalem Times? Mass Genocide?

 

Give your head a wobble. There is a massive difference to behaviour of Hamas and Israel. The number of Palestinian deaths prove that.

So the Palestinians are Arabs are they Skid?

 

In your narrow minded ignorant and blinkered exiatence Palestinians are Arabs? You complete retard.

 

The Arabs don't think they are Arabs. The Israelis don/t think they are Arabs. The Palestininians don't think they are Arabs. But you want to make a point on the basis that you think they are Arabs........

 

God save us.....