Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Barrington Womble]

43 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

 

Yes mate I know it’s ridiculously complex. It just needs to be something larger companies can’t avoid through clever (dishonest) accounting. I wouldn’t be changing anything for small businesses, it would be companies with turnovers of maybe £5m plus.

 

If it was done right you could even incorporate changes to business rates too to level the playing field between those businesses with large property portfolios and those that are almost exclusively online.

So here's the thing. 5m sounds like loads doesn't it? But what if your a 6m business running on 5% margin before costs (and by costs I mean everything, so you buy for a pound and sell for 1.05)? Then all of a sudden, that's a business that might be barely breaking even - before you've paid any type of rates, rent and human costs you've only made about 250k. 

 

I don't think it's straight forward in anyway. And if you moved the bar up, let's say to 100m, well a company like Amazon would just run loads of businesses. One that does the deliveries. One that gets the stock from the shelf to the van. One that provides staff that can drive fork lifts another that provides staff to ensure the box is wrapped. Another that sells clothes,  another that sells a different consumer product. And that's before they split IT into 100 parts. You get the idea, they'd take their one company and for tax purposes split it into hundreds of companies, which all are controlled to some master company in some shithole in the Cayman Islands or something. 

 

I think we need to find a new way. Perhaps we need to find ways through the stock market. If you're of a certain size, you need to list on our (I mean UK) markets. This then at least has a transparent value of the business and then somehow you tax against the value of the business. I am sure there are smarter people on here will tell me why this is not possible or unworkable, which is why I said before I don't have a large enough understanding of the complexities of the tax system to be able to invent a new one! I think it's the biggest challenge facing governments today and if it was easy, at least one of them would have had an idea! 

[cloggypop]

15 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Pretty sure that's a different Matthew Smith. By some accounts, he's done plenty of psychedelics in his time though.

100% the same one. 

 

Unless he spent many years pretending to be that one of course. Used to work at Bakker. 

 

Smith explained that he simply quit the video game industry in 1988 to pursue factory work. He explained: "I worked for food-processing factories, I've been on production lines like laying bunches of flowers for supermarkets." After that, it was away to Holland to a commune in 1995, where he lived until he was deported back to England in the late '90s for failing to keep his residency papers in order. 

 

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2007/01/feature_the_gospel_according_t.php

[cloggypop]

23 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Pretty sure that's a different Matthew Smith. By some accounts, he's done plenty of psychedelics in his time though.

Ah different Matthew Smith in that way. Alright. Shame. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

This is the trouble with tax in general at the moment, it's so easy for these big multinationals to avoid paying corporation tax it's mental. The only way to solve it is admit you can't tax the cunts or find an international solution to the problem. But in recent years the trend is less and less international cooperation, so we might as well give up trying to tax these cunts on profits and find other ways to make them pay their share. 

An international solution, you say? 

 

I think we've got a thread about that somewhere. 

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, Barry Wom said:

Everything is ultimately paid by the consumer! You tax Amazon more, prices will go up. But it will stop Amazon having an unfair advantage over a bloke who runs a single shop on the high st. Well obviously they'll have better quantity of scale, better lawyers, better accountants, but at least they won't also get to do business next to tax free. 

They also won't get to be the only form of employment in some towns.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I see the Prime Minister got booed and heckled when he went to Scotland. 

 

Meanwhile, the Divisive One has been out meeting people in  places like (remain-voting) Liverpool and  (leave-voting) Mansfield with no problems. 

[Mudface]

40 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

Ah different Matthew Smith in that way. Alright. Shame. 

Yeah sorry, different guy at Rockstar- https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/26/14398978/everywhere-interview-leslie-benzies-matthew-smith

 

This is the 'original' guy-

 

 

 

[Duff Man]

That guy's definitely done psychedelics.

[TheHowieLama]

27 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

That guy's definitely done psychedelics.

Possibly about a half hour before that picture was taken

[cloggypop]

That guy gave us all Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy and made the world a better place 

[No2]

2 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

An international solution, you say? 

 

I think we've got a thread about that somewhere. 

Something like this?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/18/ireland-collects-more-than-14bn-disputed-taxes-from-apple

[sir roger]

3 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

So here's the thing. 5m sounds like loads doesn't it? But what if your a 6m business running on 5% margin before costs (and by costs I mean everything, so you buy for a pound and sell for 1.05)? Then all of a sudden, that's a business that might be barely breaking even - before you've paid any type of rates, rent and human costs you've only made about 250k. 

 

Most of those will already be paying their taxes won't they ?

 

I thought this thing we were discussing was for people using the UK to trade but paying their tax elsewhere.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

Everything is ultimately paid by the consumer! You tax Amazon more, prices will go up. But it will stop Amazon having an unfair advantage over a bloke who runs a single shop on the high st. Well obviously they'll have better quantity of scale, better lawyers, better accountants, but at least they won't also get to do business next to tax free. 

Prices won't necessarily spike in response to a clampdown on tax dodging. If Starbucks are forced to pay the same rate of tax on their profits as, for example, an independent coffee shop next door, it wouldn't be sensible business to raise their prices, because they've still got to compete.  It might make better sense to just accept that when you make £162m profit, paying 19% tax still leaves you with a shitload of money.

[Section_31]

People often talk about taxes etc as though it's some big mystery. 

 

The UK/USA are the only countries in the western world that tolerate it and it's because our version of capitalism has been corrupted to high heaven. We started down the path with Reagan and Thatcher and now we've got one of the most uneven societies in the world, with all the social and crime problems that go with it. 

 

When a German or Japanese company gets a government contract they're thinking partly about money, but also partly about how to make the country strong. 

 

When a British company gets a contract from the government, every single step is about shafting the government. The company shafts the government (usually with a blind eye being turned by the government, half the time because its members are probably shareholders), the subcontractor shafts the contractor, the staff keep their head down and try and don't really give a fuck about the company because they know the company doesn't give a fuck about them, and will dump them if there's an extra 50 pence in it for the shareholders. 

 

The problem with US/UK capitalism is a spiritual one. The drivers that drive us are greed and short termism, the needs of the whole matter not a jot, neither does the picture five years down the line. 

[Strontium]

14 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

People often talk about taxes etc as though it's some big mystery. 

 

The UK/USA are the only countries in the western world that tolerate it and it's because our version of capitalism has been corrupted to high heaven. We started down the path with Reagan and Thatcher and now we've got one of the most uneven societies in the world, with all the social and crime problems that go with it. 

 

When a German or Japanese company gets a government contract they're thinking partly about money, but also partly about how to make the country strong. 

 

When a British company gets a contract from the government, every single step is about shafting the government. The company shafts the government (usually with a blind eye being turned by the government, half the time because its members are probably shareholders), the subcontractor shafts the contractor, the staff keep their head down and try and don't really give a fuck about the company because they know the company doesn't give a fuck about them, and will dump them if there's an extra 50 pence in it for the shareholders. 

 

The problem with US/UK capitalism is a spiritual one. The drivers that drive us are greed and short termism, the needs of the whole matter not a jot, neither does the picture five years down the line. 

 

Doesn't the USA have one of the highest corporation tax rates in the OECD?

 

The UK is somewhere in the middle, I think.

[Jose Jones]

44 minutes ago, Sixtimes Dog said:

 

Doesn't the USA have one of the highest corporation tax rates in the OECD?

 

The UK is somewhere in the middle, I think.

Yeah, and while I'd imagine they have some of the highest ways of getting around it too, a fair number of large American multinationals "hide" their profits off shore rather than repatriate the funds and get slugged with the tax bill.

 

Often they will choose to buy other companies too with those funds, so that the gross value of the business goes up (good for the CEO wage packet).

 

As Barry said above, it's really globalisation that has caused the increased difficulty in taxing companies and the recent rise of the super wealthy along with that.  A difficult thing to fix.

[Rico1304]

6 hours ago, Section_31 said:

People often talk about taxes etc as though it's some big mystery. 

 

The UK/USA are the only countries in the western world that tolerate it and it's because our version of capitalism has been corrupted to high heaven. We started down the path with Reagan and Thatcher and now we've got one of the most uneven societies in the world, with all the social and crime problems that go with it. 

 

When a German or Japanese company gets a government contract they're thinking partly about money, but also partly about how to make the country strong. 

 

When a British company gets a contract from the government, every single step is about shafting the government. The company shafts the government (usually with a blind eye being turned by the government, half the time because its members are probably shareholders), the subcontractor shafts the contractor, the staff keep their head down and try and don't really give a fuck about the company because they know the company doesn't give a fuck about them, and will dump them if there's an extra 50 pence in it for the shareholders. 

 

The problem with US/UK capitalism is a spiritual one. The drivers that drive us are greed and short termism, the needs of the whole matter not a jot, neither does the picture five years down the line. 

Good facts in there. You should be a journalist. 

 

What about when a German or Japanese company gets a government contract in the UK?

[Rico1304]

I’ve just bumped into Ash Sarker at Westminster tube. Nearly went for the selfie but didn’t want to spoil all your wanks. 

[Bjornebye]

4 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

I’ve just bumped into Ash Sarker at Westminster tube. Nearly went for the selfie but didn’t want to spoil all your wanks. 

She wouldn't have liked you Rico 

[Bjornebye]

But people don't agree with his politics.....

 

 

 

 

[aRdja]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

But people don't agree with his politics.....

 

 

 

 

Sass.

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

She wouldn't have liked you Rico 

I fuck like a champion too & love champagne - just the communism to overcome. 

[TheHowieLama]

15 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I fuck like a champion too & love champagne - just the communism to overcome. 

If you are going communist it is best to start at, or very near, the top. So...

[SammyAftershave]

On 29/07/2019 at 00:24, sir roger said:

What a bunch of commies are running Labour , no wonder there is fear in peoples eyes about these wild & unpopular policies

Don't forget free 'anti-semitism' for all. Well, to begin with at least.

[Captain Turdseye]

4 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

But people don't agree with his politics.....

 

 

 

 

 

What’s going on here?