Woolwich incident- Man ran over then Beheaded

[VladimirIlyich]

 

As an American and a Christian this is something I really really fucking despise.

 

I get your point and it's true but they don't even out-christian each other. They just out-exploit isolated biblical quotes and the masses' date=' christian or not, seem to eat it right up. One candidate will insinuate this is what Christianity says about this while one says the same thing about that but both only use isolated quotes or at best a whole verse when most of the time, in context, the meaning is completely different or as G Richards pointed out has already been superseded by the New Testament.

 

Some people mistake me for being anti-military when I point out our aggressive foreign policy when in reality I have no problem with us being capable of defending ourselves the problem I have is us invading other countries in some neo-imperial quest for resources/control on the back of the "we do it for peace and democracy" line. On the contrary I would argue that NOT sending our service men and women to fight endless and pointless wars in far off lands is very much "Pro-Military".

 

I would also argue that it's not the American nation (which I consider the people as a whole) that are aggressive, as most people I've met are against the wars we're in, but the Government who represents them. It really is too bad that almost everyone here is too firmly dug into their respective party trench to change that though.[/quote']

 

This 'In the name of Christianity' bullshit is what the outside world sees of the US(even if it is all an act) and this is what fires up the extremists on the other side of the divide and Bingo,a ready made cause.

The two Party system in the US and now the UK too,is just different shades of the same colour. Virtually no difference between either of them.

[Carvalho Diablo]

It is interesting though, that to even get elected in America, the candidates have to "out-Christian" eachother.

 

 

Amen to that brother...

 

[YOUTUBE]l_yBhqoOFqU[/YOUTUBE]

[Anubis]

Good post Padre, but just a couple of posts if I may.

 

While it's true that most leaders do what they do for geopolitical interest, you can understand that some the citizens of Iraq, for instance, may be wondering otherwise when it's reported that Bush has told others God told him to invade Iraq, or that he talks to and takes advice from God, or his major supporters and political analysts like Anne Coulter are urging America to invade Islamic countries, kill their leaders, and forcibly convert them to Christianity. We live in a world where information is disseminated globally and almost instantaneously, and site likes this travels even to fairly remote areas very quickly. It's why poloticians should be very careful about their rhetoric.

 

I also think the comparrison to the barbaric act we witnessed earlier in the week to widescale politically backed action of a country is a little misleading. It's more akin to smaller scale terrorism committed in the name of religion such as the actions of the National Liberation Front Of Tripura or the Manmasi National Christian Army in India, and their small-scale murders while forcibly trying to convert Hindu's to Christianity, or perhaps even more relevant the actions of Christian terrorists on abortion clinics in the US. Namely relatively small numbers of people acting out an extreme interpretation of religious ideology.

[zigackly]

Woolwich murder sparks anti-Muslim backlash

 

There has been a huge increase in anti-Muslim incidents since the murder of a British soldier in Woolwich, an inter-faith charity has said.

 

Faith Matters, which runs a helpline, said they had received more than 150 calls since Wednesday's attack, up from a daily average of six.

 

A number of people have been arrested after allegedly offensive comments were made on social media websites.

 

Drummer Lee Rigby was killed near Woolwich Barracks on Wednesday.

 

Shortly after the killing, 28-year-old Mr Adebolajo was filmed by a passer-by saying he had carried out the attack because British soldiers killed Muslims every day.

 

Mr Adebolajo and a second suspect, Michael Adebowale, 22, were arrested at the scene and remain in hospital after being shot by police.

 

'Significant online activity'

Fiyaz Mughal, director of Faith Matters, told BBC Radio Five Live: "What's really concerning is the spread of these incidents. They're coming in from right across the country.

 

"Secondly, some of them are quite aggressive very focused, very aggressive attacks.

 

"And thirdly, there also seems to be significant online activity... suggesting co-ordination of incidents and attacks against institutions or places where Muslims congregate."

 

Since the attack, four people have been charged by police after allegedly offensive messages were posted on social media websites.

 

Benjamin Flatters, a 22-year-old from Lincoln, will appear before magistrates on Saturday charged with making malicious comments on Facebook.

 

An unemployed 28-year-old has been charged by Sussex Police after allegedly posting an offensive message also on Facebook.

 

Michaela Turner, 23, has been charged with allegedly sending a "grossly offensive" message on Facebook, Hampshire Constabulary said.

 

And a 19-year-old man form Woking has been charged with improper use of public electronic communications in connection with comments placed on a social media website.

 

And a 23-year-old and a 22-year-old, both from Bristol, were arrested and bailed on Friday for making comments on Twitter of allegedly racist or anti-religious nature.

[Pony Princess]

Benjamin Flatters, a 22-year-old from Lincoln, will appear before magistrates on Saturday charged with making malicious comments on Facebook.

 

An unemployed 28-year-old has been charged by Sussex Police after allegedly posting an offensive message also on Facebook.

 

Michaela Turner, 23, has been charged with allegedly sending a "grossly offensive" message on Facebook, Hampshire Constabulary said.

 

And a 19-year-old man form Woking has been charged with improper use of public electronic communications in connection with comments placed on a social media website.

 

And a 23-year-old and a 22-year-old, both from Bristol, were arrested and bailed on Friday for making comments on Twitter of allegedly racist or anti-religious nature.

 

Arresting people and charging them for making offensive facebook comments. This country really is fucking pathetic.

[Bjornebye]

edl march in newcastle today. horses beware.

[zigackly]

Arresting people and charging them for making offensive facebook comments. This country really is fucking pathetic.

 

I grew up in a world where racism and homophobia were much more prevalent and led to lots of people getting beaten or worse because of who they were. Perhaps the pendulum has swung too far the other way, but personally I think I'd rather live in a society where deeply offensive behaviour is not allowed than one where it leads to bigoted violence by pissed up bullies. It's important to realise that most muslims have done fuck all wrong and don't deserve to cop a load of abuse or worse for it, even if personally I think religion is mostly a load of old wives tales. To a degree it depends exactly what people were saying on facebook, but incitement to hatred is not very cool. If someone is obviously making a joke and capable of qualifying it as such then fair enough, but I doubt that's what was happening here.

[Gym Beglin]

I'm not thinking about Drummer Rigby today, I'm listening to Eple by Royksopp, and now You Know You're Right by Nirvana has come on. Top tunes.

 

The message is, it doesn't matter. Staggered and shocked one day, fairly dismissive the next, and downright ignorant by the end of the week. Just one bloke died.

 

You want to have a good cry? Fine, go look at the thousands of Japanese kids in Hiroshima and Nagasaki who got cooked alive by Truman, or the grotesque actions that happened in Russia during the war, fuck the gas camps, that was humane compared to what happened elsewhere. Go watch the Oliver Stone history of America and look at the footage he's got, this planet fell apart for the best part of 10 years. First World War was one thing, but the second World War featured the A Bombs, and the threat of more A Bombs, and the 1,000 year Reich, and the UK very nearly getting conquered, and the death of 27 million Russians which has been largely overlooked in favour of championing Winston Churchill's theatrical routine.

 

The news channels want you to lose all perspective, but it's a really horrible way to live, to be constantly shocked and outraged, you start to lose sight of how things really are. I fucking hate the news outlets, they're out of control and so irresponsible.

 

A bloke got murdered in London. Read more if you're interested.

 

No, its:

 

COBRA MEETS HURRIEDLY TO ENSURE NATIONAL SAFETY

 

BRITISH TROOPS UNSAFE IN BRITAIN

 

TERRORIST ATTACK ALERT STATUS UPPED TO SEVERE

 

And not once has someone even asked if the 'terrorists' have a point, or if they're mental. It's just taken as an attack on our 'freedoms'.

What fucking 'freedoms' are these again? The 'freedom' to walk down the road without getting hacked up? Freedom to wear military gear off duty? Freedom to? Nuh, you've lost me. I'm going to do the gardening, which is free. As opposed to my water, my electricity, and my food, which require me to be enslaved in order to earn tokens to aquire them. I'd also like the freedom to not pay towards us fighting horrid wars, for no reason other than to obtain natural resources and routes for resources to pass through freely. Would Drummer Rigby have gotten the same hero worship had he put a round of ammo through a teenage Afghani kid and cut him in half?

 

Y'know. Sunrise, sunset. A bloke died the other day in Woolwich. End of story for us. Not his family, but for us, end of story. Next 'story' please BBC. Appal me.

You reap what you sow, and we're sowing some horrible seeds and we're going to get a horrible harvest one day.

[Gym Beglin]

Arresting people and charging them for making offensive facebook comments. This country really is fucking pathetic.

 

I wonder what the comments are like within Woolwich barracks, and across all army and police bases.

 

The most racist people I've met are squaddies and coppers I reckon.

[Pony Princess]

I grew up in a world where racism and homophobia were much more prevalent and led to lots of people getting beaten or worse because of who they were. Perhaps the pendulum has swung too far the other way, but personally I think I'd rather live in a society where deeply offensive behaviour is not allowed than one where it leads to bigoted violence by pissed up bullies. It's important to realise that most muslims have done fuck all wrong and don't deserve to cop a load of abuse or worse for it, even if personally I think religion is mostly a load of old wives tales. To a degree it depends exactly what people were saying on facebook, but incitement to hatred is not very cool. If someone is obviously making a joke and capable of qualifying it as such then fair enough, but I doubt that's what was happening here.

 

Don't get me wrong mate, the people posting the stuff like that are massive mongs and there are a few colossal mingebrains on my facebook doing it whom are overdue a deleting. But arresting them? Wasting important police time and tax payers money on some neckbeard whose had too many in front of the computer and decided to spout off his ill-informed opinions?

 

I just have this mental image of the look on a coppers face when days after a soldier gets killed in that way, he or she is being made to go out to the homes of these sourmilk-smelling fuckbuckets and arrest them, confiscate their equipment, book them in and press charges.

 

I don't know any coppers but I'd be interested to know how they feel about having to take part in this massive waste of time. Myself, I'd be pretty pissed off about it. Maybe Charles Penrose can weigh in if he see's this.

[zigackly]

It would definitely be cheaper just to post their addresses on a jihadist site and let nature take it's course.

 

I'm in two minds about it. A lot of what passes for humour in my head would be offensive to many other people. There's obviously a difference between that and frothing at the mouth and spouting vile shit that you actually mean as vile shit though.

 

I do think think the police have been too heavy handed in a lot of twatter and faceblert cases in recent times, but should absolutely anything be allowed? Not sure.

[Whelan]

As Zigackly say's a lot of what we find funny and what goes through our mind is offensive, and outside your circle of friends wouldn't be said aloud. I'd much prefer that people are complaining about freedom of speech, rather than getting a good kicking for being different.

 

In any other walk of life, such a small minority would never be seen to represent a group of people, Anders Breivik was never seen to represent Christians - any group, religion, ideology can be interpreted wrongly if the person doing so is a weak, pathetic individual looking for the group to give their life meaning.

 

But I'm white, I grew up in a working class environment with high unemployment - it doesn't naturally follow that I end up supporting extreme ideologies. The fact is that Islam is a way of life in Britain, and so are other religions and we have to accept that and find a way to live with that. There is no other option at the moment.

[G Richards]

Good post Padre, but just a couple of posts if I may.

 

While it's true that most leaders do what they do for geopolitical interest, you can understand that some the citizens of Iraq, for instance, may be wondering otherwise when it's reported that Bush has told others God told him to invade Iraq, or that he talks to and takes advice from God, or his major supporters and political analysts like Anne Coulter are urging America to invade Islamic countries, kill their leaders, and forcibly convert them to Christianity. We live in a world where information is disseminated globally and almost instantaneously, and site likes this travels even to fairly remote areas very quickly. It's why poloticians should be very careful about their rhetoric.

 

I also think the comparrison to the barbaric act we witnessed earlier in the week to widescale politically backed action of a country is a little misleading. It's more akin to smaller scale terrorism committed in the name of religion such as the actions of the National Liberation Front Of Tripura or the Manmasi National Christian Army in India, and their small-scale murders while forcibly trying to convert Hindu's to Christianity, or perhaps even more relevant the actions of Christian terrorists on abortion clinics in the US. Namely relatively small numbers of people acting out an extreme interpretation of religious ideology.

 

Anubis - that's all fair. Good points, thanks.

[Alan Sex]

And lo, thou shalt bang thine head repeatedly, while raising one fist with the sign of heavy metal.

[Scooby Dudek]

BBC News - Tory-Labour pact could save data bill, says Michael Howard

 

Labour and the Conservatives could unite to push through the controversial communications bill despite Lib Dem objections, a former Tory leader says.

 

The bill, allowing the monitoring of all UK citizens' internet use, was dropped after a split in the coalition.

 

But Michael Howard said David Cameron had "to act in the national interest" following the Woolwich murder.

 

Labour leader Ed Miliband has said that "if he [the PM] wants a communications bill, we'll help him get it through".

 

Mr Miliband told the Commons earlier this month that if Mr Cameron was being forced to drop certain policies because of "people behind him" - his own backbenchers - then Labour would step in.

[zigackly]

Miliband is a massive cocksucker.

[Pidge]

Fucking hell...

 

Terrorism prevails. Again.

[Strontium]

Sorry folks, we did what we could...

[Saintslfc13]

This 'In the name of Christianity' bullshit is what the outside world sees of the US(even if it is all an act) and this is what fires up the extremists on the other side of the divide and Bingo,a ready made cause.

The two Party system in the US and now the UK too,is just different shades of the same colour. Virtually no difference between either of them.

 

Agree with all of this and particularly the bold part. Thing is telling people that over here is like telling them the sky isn't blue, they don't give you the time of day and write you off as some conspiracy junkie, unless that is they already think the same way.

 

My point about Christianity was more that they don't actually act on it they just use it to exploit people's beliefs for a vote. I'm a very different Christian than most I've met. I don't go to church as I don't believe I need others to tell me how to pray, I normally don't talk about it, and I'm certainly not an American male version of Mother Teresa. I keep it all personal and I know that I commit my fair share of sin (some of which I particularly enjoy) so I do my best not judge others.

 

So following that, it's not that they claim Christianity to get elected that bothers me, I'd be perfectly okay with it if they practiced what they preached, it's that they act like it only applies during election season. Once they get the votes they go back to finding ways to screw people over. It's the same reason I have issues when the President cries over dead kids in America but has no problem with drone striking a wedding or town in Afghanistan. Blatant hypocrisy, and I don't want that from the person representing the executive branch of my country's government, nor do I want it from the men and women representing us in congress.

 

Maybe I'm just a cynical cunt but it seems the older I get the less I believe we need anyone to "lead" us in the capacity that they do. I see the benefits of structure and I understand them but I also think that people in general are good for the most part and only delve into things that are considered bad because they believe that's their best option, at least on the small scale. For example I don't think very many people grow up wanting to be a drug dealer, but they get into it when they realize they're going to make more money faster and usually sooner (IE a younger age) than those doing other things. The few that are already at the top and are still corrupt are just greedy and genuinely evil, which again makes me wonder why we allow them to have so much power.

[Section_31]

Some interesting stuff from the bloke's brother today on the news, saying the guy was tortured in Kenya and Britain knew about it but didn't do anything, and that he was never the same after that. Even if true of course it doesn't come anywhere close to excusing any kind of terrorist action, but it certainly makes you think. I miss the world when it was black and white, like the A team.

[manwiththestick]

Some interesting stuff from the bloke's brother today on the news, saying the guy was tortured in Kenya and Britain knew about it but didn't do anything, and that he was never the same after that. Even if true of course it doesn't come anywhere close to excusing any kind of terrorist action, but it certainly makes you think. I miss the world when it was black and white, like the A team.

 

You're talking segregation here aren't you? Front and back of buses, hell even seperate ones? I see your true colours here.

[Pureblood]

What I'll say is all pretty obvious but the emotive language used by the media in all of this is so unhelpful (purposely, of course). The word "radicalisation", in particular, is sorely misplaced and is really pissing me off. Apparently thousands are at risk from radicalisation. If there are thousands of them at it, it can't be that rad, can it? I'm also uncomfortable with the term "Islamic extremism". Is it extreme, or just one interpretation? What's more extreme, killing thousands of Muslims indiscriminately with drones or killing one military target? Who radicalised Blair and Bush?

 

There is also a portrayal of the so-called Islamic extremists as being mentally unstable. They're described as crazy nutcases. I don't think this is helpful. I think that whatever their motivation may be, their mental faculties are intact. I include the meat cleaver assailants in this.

[Strontium]

I think describing someone who believes that an invisible wizard in the sky wants him to hack people to death in the street as being wholly in possession of his mental faculties is something of a stretch.

[Pureblood]

Good for you. The old sky wizard line, eh? Surely you can do better than that. Or, perhaps not.

[stringvest]

I'd love to know what sort of wizardry, witchcraft or other dark arts are involved in the process of getting someone to vote Liberal Democrat. Having faith in some all-powerful bearded ectoplasm is surely small beer compared with the NLP tour de force attempted by the cold calling prospective LD MP.

 

I suspect SDs remark applies equally to those God-fearing good old boys flying the Crusaderdrones over muzzie hotspots, repeatedly punching the bruise until they bite back and give our hardly elected representatives all the reason they need to plough more money into the arms companies.