Someone's having a real laugh - gollum?

[WhiskeyJar]

United have to win by three clear goals to be sure of their passage to the last eight of the competition but Van Persie is refusing to throw in the towel just yet.

 

"It is still possible, because with all due respect to Olympiacos, we should be able to win 3-0 at home," the striker added.

 

"It is not that they were fantastic (in the first leg), we just mostly failed."

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

This can't be happening - we've always done what we want

[Dr Nowt]

 

 

That picture's gold.

 

"When do you think they'll have the tyre replaced, drive?  We're already half hour late."

 

"No idea mate, I just work here."

[magicrat]

Just looked at oddschecker.  Dave is odds on favourite to be the next PL Manager to go.

You've got to pinch yourself . The team manager of Manchester fucking United is backed down to odds on to be fired ahead of all the dross most of the other 19 clubs have masquerading as managers. Unbelievable and makes me believe think there is a God after all.

[Jairzinho]

Just looked at oddschecker.  Dave is odds on favourite to be the next PL Manager to go.

You've got to pinch yourself . The team manager of Manchester fucking United is backed down to odds on to be fired ahead of all the dross most of the other 19 clubs have masquerading as managers. Unbelievable and makes me believe think there is a God after all.

 

Fucking hell.

 

I checked last night after the game and he was about a 12/1 5th favourite. Something has definitely happened today.

[magicrat]

Fucking hell.

 

I checked last night after the game and he was about a 12/1 5th favourite. Something has definitely happened today.

Toast without doubt

[Tj hooker]

Rumours on Redcafe that some bookies have suspended the betting on Moyes being sacked hope there wrong

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Bookies often suspend betting when too much money goes on one outcome and it gets risky for them. Can you imagine the inflood of bets after last night?

[Major Tom]

Bookies often suspend betting when too much money goes on one outcome and it gets risky for them. Can you imagine the inflood of bets after last night?

 

And to generate publicity.

 

"Betting suspended.....!!!!!"

[Babb'sBurstNad]

And to generate publicity.

 

"Betting suspended.....!!!!!"

 

Very true, you only need to have a quick look at the relationship between Sky Bet and Sky Sports News to see the manipulation of facts to drum up business.

[Einch]

It's as I have been saying for weeks now. He is a dishevelled mess and he has plumbed the depths that the board of Mordor cannot accept. Gone before they play West Brom I think.

[Dr Nowt]

Phil Jones has interpeted United under Moyes, through the medium of expressive dance.

 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Phil Neville looks like fucking Herman Munster.

Bit harsh on Herman Munster mate.

[Dr Nowt]

David Moyes needs trust of United players if he is to survive crisis

 

Matt Dickinson

 

 

At Manchester United it felt like something snapped on Tuesday night, and that something may be impossible to fix.  David Moyes could cope with bad results, a trophyless first season, even terrace jeers but no manager can survive when his players start giving up on him.

 

When Moyes surveyed a beaten, bedraggled dressing room in Athens on Tuesday night, how many of his squad did he trust were squarely behind him, believing in him and his methods, certain that he will endure? Too few.

 

How many raised their eyes from the floor, looked at their manager and saw a decent man overwhelmed? Too many.

 

Wayne Rooney still fights for Moyes, as well he should given the time and effort the manager has devoted to keeping him happy, but even that single, scant consolation against Olympiacos only highlighted the impotence of the other ten.

 

We can read too much into single games. We commonly misinterpret lack of confidence for players not caring.  This wonderfully unpredictable sport has a habit of making fools of analysts and we rush too quickly to judgement like the last time United were in a situation which felt this dire in December 2005.

 

Knocked out of the Champions League group stage, with Roy Keane railing against his team-mates and the supporters revolting, even within the club they wondered if Sir Alex Ferguson was finished.

 

How premature those obituaries proved but when Ferguson told his players it would all be fine, there was a decade of unprecedented success to back him up as well as a young, primed Cristiano Ronaldo.

 

There is a limit to how many times Moyes can tell his players to hang in there through the latest setback. There is a limit to how long he can believe in it himself.  Long-term planning, a six-year contract, has been overtaken by a scrap for survival, the need to prove that he can tough out the next few weeks.

 

United have enough good players to win any match. Perhaps a goal will fly in, the crowd will roar, Moyes will punch the air and a sense of order will return. But any reprieve just now will feel awfully fragile and temporary.

 

After Saturday’s trip to West Bromwich Albion, United have four games in ten days – against Liverpool, the return tie versus Olympiacos, a trip to West Ham United and then Manchester City at home – which have the capacity to push Moyes over the brink.

 

That is how finely balanced it feels when we consider how dark the mood will turn at Old Trafford should Liverpool or City pile on fresh misery.  On Tuesday afternoon, the issue for the United hierarchy was how much to spend on the summer rebuild; £150 million, £200 million? So wretched was this latest defeat that it changed the question to whether Moyes can be allowed to lead that reconstruction.

 

 

This squad desperately needs better players in defence, midfield and attack but, more importantly and far more urgently for Moyes’ sake, it needs some conviction from those it already possesses. That is not a matter of splashing the cash but trust in his leadership.  If Moyes cannot shake these players from their fatalism and self-pity then the brutal truth is that he will not be given the chance to work with new ones.

 

We know the busted, broken Rio Ferdinand will move on, along with the creaking stalwart Nemanja Vidic, but Moyes cannot change everyone. He still has to work with the jittery Chris Smalling, fearful Tom Cleverley and limp Ashley Young. He has to make them believe in themselves, and him.

 

He has to somehow make Robin van Persie remember he is a world class striker and a senior pro, not a sulker casting around blame.  If improvement is not immediate, and the signs were desperate in Athens, a board which has been absolutely unequivocal in its backing for Moyes will have to consider other options, even interim ones like Ryan Giggs.

 

It is a desperate situation for the Scotsman who deserves far better than to go down in history as the man who screwed up his one big job, the 21^st century Frank O’Farrell.  So many of the problems are not of his making, but they are his to fix and there was no reassurance to be found in Athens as United’s failing players slunk away, certain that the focus will be on their manager and not them.

 

When players start speculating in their own minds whether the manager will be fired, it is not the beginning of the end. Often it is the end.  Perhaps this crisis can be turned around but the fans don’t see it. Most alarmingly for Moyes, it seems that many of his players are struggling to see it, too.

[Jairzinho]

[ElishaScottBC]

If I was David Moyes I'd sack the team before they get the chance to have him fired. It's a deliberate set-up by the lazy, good for nothing players to drag this great manager through the mud. Tottenham were able to buy players with £100m so why can't Man Utd, sell the starting 11, buy a new team. Go Moyes!

[aws]

Odds on favourite for next WBA manager.

[magicrat]

Phil Neville looks like fucking Herman Munster.

Step forward Manchester Utd caretaker manager

[Section_31]

The precious is lost.

[magicrat]

Team photo after the Olympiakos game

 

[alles ist gut]

Team photo after the Olympiakos game

 

Gotta be Photoshopped, I can see 2 Rooneys.

[FanchesterCity]

Those players absolutely weren't playing for him last night, and it would be no surprise at all if they don't believe in him one bit. In fact quite the reverse would be true.

 

I think he knows it as well, hence his bridge-building attempt of "I take responsibility."

 

Too late, no doubt.  They look like they're sleep walking until he's given the bullet.

 

I think you're right about the players, but, it always irks me that players can get themselves into this mode. We've all seen it happen, regardless of clubs.

 

I heard something today about players at West Brom not liking Pepe Mel's tactics... 6 games in, and they're moaning. It's shocking really.

 

So much for 'United players want to play for the club, not the money'... well they don't really look too interested in the club right now. That's not a specific criticism of United, simply that the modern play is a temperamental arse these days and the moment things aren't going their way, far too many of them are found wanting.

[Jairzinho]

I think you're right about the players, but, it always irks me that players can get themselves into this mode. We've all seen it happen, regardless of clubs.

 

I heard something today about players at West Brom not liking Pepe Mel's tactics... 6 games in, and they're moaning. It's shocking really.

 

So much for 'United players want to play for the club, not the money'... well they don't really look too interested in the club right now. That's not a specific criticism of United, simply that the modern play is a temperamental arse these days and the moment things aren't going their way, far too many of them are found wanting.

 

I agree, but there is a huge difference between the two situations.

 

Mel is attempting to make West Brom a more progressive side, by importing methods he has used in Spain. Spain the current champions of the world. He wants them to press high up the pitch to win the ball back, and, presumably, would quite like them to pass it to each other occasionally when they get it. Surely that was the whole point of hiring him? The response, from a collection of shit players, is "Too much like hard work, don't understand it, can't we go back to just hoofing it, that was so much easier". It fucking stinks of the insular, shithouse, xenophobic attitude that surrounds English football.

 

The complete opposite is happening with Moyes and United. You can completely understand players like Van Persie, one of the best strikers on the planet, not wanting to play ale house football under a complete fucking no mark.

 

This'll be an unpopular opinion, but I can fully understand why Torres downed tools here. We went from one of the best teams in Europe, with one of the best managers in Europe, to fucking Roy Hodgson. Yeah, if he'd given it another 6 months, things would have changed massively, but by then his mind had been made.

 

Its the same at United now.

[clangers]

It all still comes down to Moyes, just loving it, I'm currently convincing a manc loving mate to stick with him. Constantly re-enforcing the Moyes just needs time, you've gone for a long-term investment with Moyes and he needs to be allowed to develop into the role. He's even swallowed the 'you don't need to win anything to be a winner' line and that bringing in Moyes wasn't about winning. Desperate stuff.

 

I think we're just about at the point where the manc supporters are about to seriously throw their toys out of the pram. Once they exit the CL and it's obvious now that they're not going to qualify next season I suspect their displeasure will become very obvious especially given who is likely to finish at least 4th.

 

My biggest concern is that it all seriously unravels, I'm hoping for a bit of a Moyes revival, with a strong 5th place showing for the rest of the season. We need Moyes to be the man to piss that apparent £200 million away during the summer.

 

I'm still taken aback just how quickly they've fallen apart.

[Dr Nowt]

@mikekeeganmen: #mufc threatening suspension for #mcfc game for fans who don't buy 2nd leg tickets (via @welbzizdatguy) http://t.co/kgmadAqIqa

 

Tipping point being reached there as we type.