All time great Managers?: Daily Mail

[ToxtethTerror]

What the fuck is Wenger doing on this list?

 

1. Sir Alex Ferguson

 

(East Stirlingshire, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Scotland, Manchester United)

Why? - Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful manager in British football history. Replaced Ron Atkinson as United's manager on November 6, 1986. Has won 10 Premier League titles, five FA cups, three League Cups and two Champions Leagues. Won the Cup Winners' Cup with both Aberdeen and Man Utd.

 

Favourite quote - After winning the Champions League in 1999: 'I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Football. Bloody hell.'

 

2. Bob Paisley(Liverpool)

 

Why? - Served Liverpool for 44 years. As manager, between 1974 and 1983, he won six league titles, three European Cups, one UEFA Cup and three League Cups.

 

Favourite quote - 'If you're in the penalty area and aren't sure what to do with the ball, just stick it in the net, and we'll discuss your options afterwards.'

 

3. Bill Shankly (Liverpool)

 

(Carlisle, Grimsby, Workington, Huddersfield, Liverpool)

Why? - Manager of Liverpool between 1959 and 1974. The club won three league titles, two FA Cups and the UEFA Cup under Shankly. Retired after winning the 1974 FA Cup Final.

 

Favourite quote - 'If you are first, you are first. If you are second you are nothing.'

 

4. Sir Matt Busby(Manchester United)

 

Why? - Played for both Man City and Liverpool as a player. Manager of United for 24 years from 1945 to 1969. Rebuilt team after the Munich air crash. Won the European Cup.

 

Favourite quote - On George Best: 'It was a very simple team talk. All I used to say was: Whenever possible, give the ball to George.'

 

5. Brian Clough (Notts Forest)

 

(Hartlepool, Derby, Brighton, Leeds, Nottingham Forest)

Why? - Most well known for his success as manager of both Derby County and Nottingham Forest. Won the European Cup twice as manager of Forest. Clough won the League with both Derby and Forest. The Forest title win was in his first season after promotion.

 

Favourite quote - 'I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was certainly in the top one.'

 

6. Jock Stein(Dunfermline, Hibernian, Celtic, Leeds, Scotland)

 

Why? - Most well known from his time as manager of Celtic from 1965 to 1978. Guided Celtic to European Cup success in 1967. Lead Celtic to nine-in-a-row league titles from 1966 to 1974.

 

Favourite quote - After winning European Cup: 'We did it by playing football. Pure, beautiful, inventive football.'

 

7. Sir Alf Ramsey(Ipswich, England, Birmingham)

 

Why? - Guided England to World Cup success in 1966.

 

Favourite quote - Before the World Cup final: 'You've beaten them once. Now go out and bloody beat them again.'

8. Arsene Wenger(Nancy, Monaco, Grampus Eight, Arsenal)

 

Why? - Manager of Arsenal since 1996. Has won three League titles, four FA Cups and four Community Shields during this period, including League and Cup 'doubles' in 1998 and 2002. Arsenal went unbeaten for a whole season under his management.

 

Favourite quote - 'You cannot say that you are happy when you don't win.'

 

9. Bill Nicholson(Tottenham Hotspur)

 

Why? - Manager of Spurs between 1958 and 1974. Beat Everton 10-4 in his first game in charge. Won league and cup double in 1960/61. First manager to win a European trophy with a British club - the European Cup Winners Cup.

 

Favourite quote - 'Any player coming here must be dedicated to the game and to the club. He must never be satisfied with his last performance and he must hate losing.'

 

10. Jose Mourinho(Benfica, Leiria, Porto, Chelsea, Inter Milan)

 

Why? - Didn't lose a single home match whilst in charge of Chelsea. Won the Premier League with Chelsea in 2005 and 2006.

 

Favourite quote: 'There is no pressure at the top. The pressure's being second or third.'

[redrosetints]

Saw this yesterday and my first though was, where is Kenny !

 

Jose Vs Kenny, no brainer.

[rargh]

Wenger and Mourinho shouldn't be on that list. Herbert Chapman made more of a mark on English football than either of those two. King Kenny?

[goatboy59]

Got the two Mancs the wrong way round, Clough's too high (what did he do without Peter Taylor), Ramsey won a home turf tournament and nothing else. Revie's been demonised so that he can never even be mentioned, never mind listed (England factor in reverse) and Catterick's more or less the forgotten man.

 

Second and third, I'm happy with that. Think Wenger's got to win another title or the European Cup to justify his place. Agree about Kenny.

 

Where's Warnock and Allardyce? ;)

[rargh]

No Mike Walker? Outrageous!

[Antynwa]

That list is fucking shit, fucking disgraceful and should be torn apart and done again.

 

whoever did that is an absolutely gobshite

[ChrisA]

Pretty accuate list really, although can't see why Mourinho is on there.

 

Re Mancs, "wrong way round"? No way. Ask yourself this, how many times over the years have the papers told you that Fergie is finished? That his team is over the hill etc? And how many times has he rebuilt the team and taken them to more glory? And look over your shoulder, there's a few top class younger Mancs ready for the next generation. The man created a dynasty, that will certainly outlive his tenure, and is for me, without question the finest manager ever in British football.

 

My only other point re that list is that I would put Shanks above Bob. For me - Bob proffited from the dynasty that Shanks created.

[goatboy59]

I tell you what; we'll kill United's first team and almost kill Ferguson, then we'll see where he is five years later.

 

Not in the manager's office, winning the FA Cup and building another great team, I can guarantee.

 

Busby is the best.

 

I think Paisley played a big part in Shankly's success, and has done what no other manager has ever done; succeeded a Legend and become one himself. Why do you think the Mancs are cacking it about Ferguson's departure.

 

Suspect Mourinho is in there partly for his Porto stuff, and if Ferguson has got number one for the Aberdeen stuff as well then fair do's.

[ChrisA]

I tell you what; we'll kill United's first team and almost kill Ferguson, then we'll see where he is five years later.

 

Not in the manager's office, winning the FA Cup and building another great team, I can guarantee.

 

No you can't.

 

And Fergie already has a great young team in the making. Gonna 'kill' them too?

[goatboy59]

It's okay, I'll wait.

[King Emlyn]

I tell you what; we'll kill United's first team and almost kill Ferguson, then we'll see where he is five years later.

 

Not in the manager's office, winning the FA Cup and building another great team, I can guarantee.

 

No you can't.

 

And Fergie already has a great young team in the making. Gonna 'kill' them too?

He's on about Busby overcoming the Munich air disaster

[goatboy59]

And I suppose technically, that's 'man' as opposed to 'manager'.

 

Which is lucky for Ferguson as he wouldn't get into the top million, horrible bastard.

[ToxtethTerror]

I have to hand it to Ferguson, the reason being is that he has this ability to build new teams and have success at the same time... he has built many great teams. The other thing is that he can get shite like Fletcher, O'Shae etc perfoming and playing parts in great teams. He is a great man manager and a good attacking coach, he also has a good eye for attacking players and players who will fit into his system without causing disruption. Any manager who can handle a team of Smeichel, Ince, Keane, Hughes, Cantona etc must be one strong bastard.

 

He edges Bob now he has won a 2nd European Cup and for the very reason that he built a dynasty, Bob inherited one nearly there. On Bob's side though, he was only manager 6 odd years and had huge success.. it's a tough one.

 

In an interview on 5 live I remember Ferguson saying that he modelled his managerial style on Shankly and used to listen to recordings of Shankly's press conferences....

[jamespp]

I tell you what; we'll kill United's first team and almost kill Ferguson, then we'll see where he is five years later.

 

Not in the manager's office, winning the FA Cup and building another great team, I can guarantee.

 

You cant guarantee

 

1. Ferguson

2. Shankly

3. Paisley

4. Busby

5. Clough

 

is my top 5

[mgw100]

I don't think the list is that unreasonable, as long as you accept it starts from the fifties onwards. Chapman may have a claim, but to be honest, it's always pretty spurious when these lists start including achievements from the days of silent pictures. You can only really go on statistics rather than anything else and it's hard to understand 1920's football in the context of the modern game. All those titles with Huddersfield and Arsenal is pretty impressive though.

 

Apart from that, I think it's a sensible enough list (nothing is definitive with this kind of list though), though I agree that Revie should replace Mourinho. Wenger has probably done enough to be an arguable inclusion. At least Kendall didn't get a mention.

[Paul]

1. Ferguson - fucking sickening, but inarguable after last season, in my view.

2. Paisley - despite building on Shanks' foundations, he took us stratospheric and six leagues and three European Cups in nine seasons is almost literally unbelievable.

3. Clough - titles with two clubs and a brace of European Cups with a club the size of Forest when a club like Liverpool were the competition would make him number one in most other leagues.

4. Shanks - built the foundations of the country's greatest footballing dynasty.

5. Busby - made The Mancs a great club and overcame disaster in the process.

 

After those five I think it's pretty flexible, but Dalglish would have to be in the top ten.

[Kevin D]

I'm not having Ferguson top of the list, while I'm sure he'd argue that you're only as good as your competitors, the league was in relative decline and easily at it's worst quality in about 40 years when he raking up the majority of his titles.

That and the astronomical sums he's spent as manager coupled with the length of time it took him to crack the league all weigh against him , in my opinion. I'd probably be willing to overlook all that if he weren't the most demonic manager I could recall. In my youth the Mancs were semi-respectable, I'd ocassionally go and watch them as my dad was a friend of Mr.Busby but he's gradually seen to the systematic demise of any principles that club once had.

 

Furthermore his competition is Paisley, who is simply put, the greatest manager of all time. Like others have said Kenny should certainly be in there; probably in the top 6 or 7. I'd also have liked to see Chapman in there who did so much for the advancement of football and had a lot more success than others in the list.

I'd probaby have Stein in the top 4 because his achievements will never be replicated.

[Hermes]

Bob Paisley won 13 major trophies in his 9 seasons of management, Ferguson can't match that return in any 9 successive seasons he has been a manager. Throw in the only manager in history to win 3 European Cups and there is no comparison.

 

Number 2 is far and away Brian Clough. When you consider what he did with Derby and Forest, considering their past and subsequent records it's incredible.

[Paul]

I'm loathe to start arguing for the cunt, but I think his achievements are numerous: the number of great teams he's built, the number of trophies won, the number of times he's won more than one big trophy in a season, the three-on-the-bounce title win(s). All of that built from a club in decline against the back drop of massive expectation - and that's without considering the style of football his teams play, his ability to handle massive egos, his ability to embrace change, his ability to delegate, his ability to control the media and all achieved through the greatest period of change the game has ever seen.

[Hermes]

all achieved through the greatest period of change the game has ever seen.

 

But also the period when cash is king. Man U's success coincided with the money pouring into football and they took advantage of it.

[King Emlyn]

I'm loathe to start arguing for the cunt, but I think his achievements are numerous: the number of great teams he's built, the number of trophies won, the number of times he's won more than one big trophy in a season, the three-on-the-bounce title win(s). All of that built from a club in decline against the back drop of massive expectation - and that's without considering the style of football his teams play, his ability to handle massive egos, his ability to embrace change, his ability to delegate, his ability to control the media and all achieved through the greatest period of change the game has ever seen.

Unfortunately i'm going to have to agree with that.

[Hermes]

I wonder how much more Bob would have achieved had he started his managerial career as young as Taggart did.

 

Given where he'd got to by the time he'd retired, where would he have been had he still been in charge another ten years?

 

If he'd only achieved what the subsequent managers did in those 10 years he'd have had 10 league titles, the same as Ferguson in fewer seasons. Perspective.

[Paul]

But also the period when cash is king. Man U's success coincided with the money pouring into football and they took advantage of it.

And therein lies the greatest lesson for our club, because in footballing terms there's almost nothing Fergie has achieved that one of our four great managers hadn't already achieved first. Fergie's greatness comes from doing it all himself, though. As a club, it's off the pitch where we - still, after all these years of watching them lead the way - need to learn from The Mancs. Individually, Rafa could learn a few things from him on the pitch, mind.

[Kevin D]

Some would argue that Fagan's treble the next year was really Bob's treble; slightly unfair on Joe but it highlights the impact Paisley had, I personally couldn't see the Mancs going out an winning the treble the year after Ferguson leaves.

The character of the man , the massive amount of time and resources he's spent at Salford, the relative decline of both Europe and the country he was managing in just can't compare with Paisley as far as I'm concerned.

In 9 years Bob won 6 titles , it's not crazy to think had he been here for 15 years he may have even exceeded the amount of titles Ferguson has won, not to mention that he's still ahead in European honours.

[Paul]

If he'd only achieved what the subsequent managers did in those 10 years he'd have had 10 league titles, the same as Ferguson in fewer seasons. Perspective.

Paisley is obviously a legend of the game and so ifs and buts demean him, in my view - he did everything possible with the opportunity he had and it's pointless speculating about what he might have achieved in different circumstances when what he did achieve was so incredible. The flipside of the argument is that Ferguson got to the top very quickly and then stayed there for the rest of his career.

 

Anyway, I'm getting far too deep into championing an utter cunt, so I'm dipping out now - save to say that if you factor in the quality of the man, I wouldn't have him in the top ten, nevermind number one.