Russia v Ukraine

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, M_B said:

But you don't hear many people saying Britain caused WW2 by creating a bulwark of alliances around Germany or its history of colonialism - its widely accepted that Hitlers designs on grabbing living space for an Aryan race were the reason for that conflict.

 

Yet for some reason you and others push the agenda that NATO expansion is at fault, or the invasion is somehow justified cause of a right wing minority in the country, or overload the thread with whataboutery - despite a speech and essays written by the man himself that reveal he does not believe Ukraine should exist.

 

And by pushing that agenda you come across as an appeaser\apologist. Can you see that?

OK fair enough, as for Putin I can't stand the man and I'm not at all fussed on the Russians I was just casting a dubious eye over the west's constant need to expand east.

[M_B]

For example - the Right Wing theme Gnasher keeps pushing

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Ukraine

 

Quote

In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election all major Ukrainian right-wing parties formed a nationwide united party list with the political parties Svoboda, National Corps, the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, and the Right Sector.^[4] However, the resulting coalition only managed to win 2.15% of the popular vote, and since the coalition failed to pass the 5% threshold, no parliamentary seats.^[5]All parties ultimately received no representation in the Verkhovna Rada (Ukraine's parliament), as they all failed to win any single-mandate constituency seat.^[5]

 

The far right have no seats in the Ukrainian Parliament. So it seems nonsensical to push the idea that Ukraine is riddled with extreme right wing politics. It exists certainly - the Azov Battalion is the representation of it, but there is no reason there to 'denazify' the country.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

1 hour ago, PestiRed said:

90,000 refugees arrived and registered in Hungary so far. No idea how many of them will stay although I’d imagine that those with Magyar ethnicity are likely to. Good response here, everyone I know or work with is either organising aid or contributing to it

[J-V]

hahaha nutter

 

 

[Gnasher]

32 minutes ago, M_B said:

For example - the Right Wing theme Gnasher keeps pushing

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Ukraine

 

 

The far right have no seats in the Ukrainian Parliament. So it seems nonsensical to push the idea that Ukraine is riddled with extreme right wing politics. It exists certainly - the Azov Battalion is the representation of it, but there is no reason there to 'denazify' the country.

I didn't say the far right had seats in Parliament, just they are active throughout the country. Talking of Ukraines Parliament didn't it get stormed in 2014 and the sitting government overthrown? Similar in some respects to Trumps mob recently, although the overthrown government deserved its death.

[JagSquared]

13 hours ago, Anubis said:

Thread on Russian troll farms and disinformation websites.

 

 

And yet the regens in football manager still look like shit.

[Boss]

1 hour ago, J-V said:

hahaha nutter

 

 

 

There's going to be a couple of episodes of Absolute Mad Lads based on some of these Ukrainian fellas when the conflict ends. 

[YorkshireRed]

Diane Abbot’s just mistakenly referred to Ukraine as Croatia on The Politics Show.

 

I wonder if this will just be seen as ‘one of those things’ that we all just move on from. 

[Bjornebye]

Just now, YorkshireRed said:

Diane Abbot’s just mistakenly referred to Ukraine as Croatia on The Politics Show.

 

I wonder if this will just be seen as ‘one of those things’ that we all just move on from. 

Oh ffs she’s a liability. They will be all over that. Labour just give them ammunition constantly it’s a fucking piss take 

[House of Dirk]

That will keep the gammon in wank material for weeks.

[Pureblood]

https://maajidnawaz.substack.com/p/russia-ukraine-nato-the-eu-and-a?utm_source=url

 

Our opposition to Putin in Syria by no means meant that any of us supported ISIS in Syria either. My opposition to ISIS-style extremism is too well documented even to need hyperlinked references. Most of us were able to oppose both Assad and his ally Putin, as well as oppose ISIS. This is because most of us were able to hold two thoughts in our heads at the same time. This is just like in history, where most of us can see that the Soviet Union and the Third Reich were two sides of the same totalitarian coin.

 

So why has it become so hard for most of us to condemn both Putin’s attack on Ukraine while also condemning our and our ally Ukraine’s state-funding, training and arming of the armed Nazi battalion Azov in Ukraine?

 

Again, to be clear, this is not to deny Ukraine’s right to defend itself. This is also not to ignore Putin’s authoritarianism. This is a critique of the Ukrainian state’s decision to do so by raising and formally incorporating specifically neo-Nazi armed battalions into its armed forces.

[dockers_strike]

5 hours ago, Code said:

Dont know if this has been posted before.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340?fbclid=IwAR1HRUx40y60xtFzP7pzV7s_4ysgJUTQmYuCTef9YEY-3LawF9hqdUoY378

Terrifying. Hill's a geordie lass as well, I think.

[Pureblood]

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/city-firms-prepare-to-drop-russian-clients-after-ukraine-invasion/5111685.article

 

City firms prepare to drop Russian clients after Ukraine invasion

 

Leading UK firms are considering dropping Russian clients as the war in Ukraine intensifies and the spotlight falls on the legal profession’s links to the country.

 

The Gazette is aware of at least three City firms who have initiated reviews of client relationships in the light of the ongoing conflict.

 

A number of UK firms have offices in Moscow and other Russian cities and – while there is no suggestion they have done anything wrong – pressure is mounting for professional services outfits to cut all ties with the country.

 

But the Law Society has supported firms representing Russian clients and in particular those working to ensure sanctions imposed by the UK government are lawful.

 

Society president I. Stephanie Boyce said: ‘It’s the job of solicitors to represent their clients, whoever they may be, so that the courts act fairly. This is how the public can be confident they live in a country that respects the rule of law – unlike Putin’s tyrannical regime.

 

‘Solicitors are highly regulated and are not allowed to bring spurious objections to processes – if they challenge the government’s actions, it’s because they think the government is at risk of breaking its own rules.’

 

Boyce added that if the government wished to change the rules on sanctions, this should be done democratically.

 

Law firms have been criticised by foreign secretary Liz Truss in a briefing to MPs for seeking to hold up the sanctions process. She said that the government had to make sure these measures were ‘legally watertight’.

 

It was also reported yesterday that prime minister Boris Johnson’s official spokesperson said Russia should be treated ‘like a pariah state’ and that City law firms, accountants and banks should not be supporting allies of the Russian regime.

 

However, Labour MP Justin Madders told Truss yesterday: ‘No matter how distasteful we might find it and how damaging it might be to those law firms’ reputations, even oligarchs are entitled to legal representation because that is part of what makes us a free and democratic society.’

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

Oh ffs she’s a liability. They will be all over that. Labour just give them ammunition constantly it’s a fucking piss take 

She may well be the best ever local politician, but why in the name of the lord would they put her on TV? I would politely request she stops. Immediately. 

[Mike D]

2 hours ago, YorkshireRed said:

Diane Abbot’s just mistakenly referred to Ukraine as Croatia on The Politics Show.

 

I wonder if this will just be seen as ‘one of those things’ that we all just move on from. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1573735/Russia-invasion-Ukraine-latest-Diane-Abbott-Croatia-video-Labour-Party-NATO-latest-vn

[SasaS]

I think it's a mistake shutting down Russia's global media vehicles and not reporting more on how they see thei invasion of a neighbouring country.

Russia Today reporting about Oliver Stone using his Instagram account to provide links to informative pieces on how it all came about.

 

The Sunday post is meant to counter “all the hysteria of Western media” and its propensity for “omitting key facts when inconvenient,” the director said.

The materials that Stone suggested for reading offer some “helpful and honest analyses” on the Ukraine crisis, he wrote.

 

The best part is the paragraph

 

The takes by Kevin and Steele are now somewhat outdated, considering that, contrary to their expectations, Russia did launch an attack on Ukraine after they were published on February 23. Lauria’s piece focuses on the February 24 speech that Russian President Vladimir Putin delivered as he announced Russian military action against Ukraine. Johnstone raised criticisms of Western hubris, which she asserted ultimately led to the bloody armed conflict in Ukraine.

Links for fans of "somewhat outdated" opinions in the article,

 

https://www.rt.com/news/550951-oliver-stone-read-ukraine/

[M_B]

3 hours ago, Pureblood said:

https://maajidnawaz.substack.com/p/russia-ukraine-nato-the-eu-and-a?utm_source=url

 

So why has it become so hard for most of us to condemn both Putin’s attack on Ukraine while also condemning our and our ally Ukraine’s state-funding, training and arming of the armed Nazi battalion Azov in Ukraine?

Nothing wrong with that unless it's in agreement with Putin's declaration that Ukraine needs to be denazified. 1 Batallion of right wing nutjobs does not make a whole country a bunch of Nazi's; there isn't a single far right political party with a seat in Parliament.

 

And besides - the Azov battalion won't exist in a few weeks time.

[Bjornebye]

Not sure how the Babyn Yar memorial is a strategic target. Bastards 

[DJLJ]

yup, it is all about denazification for the Russians…

[SasaS]

Summary for today from Tom Cooper.

 

"So, here my review for the last 24 hours:

 

Once again, many sources are reporting ‚nothing going on’ in Ukraine, yesterday and today. Sorry, this is simply not truth.

 

AIR

Ukrainian air defences remain active – just like, contrary to mass of Western reports, the VKS is very active. Yesterday, the Ukrainians claimed five Russian jets as shot down, incluidng a Su-30 and Su-35. Early in the morning today, UkAF claimed to have shot down three Russian jets, all by S-300s, and that in the areas named as Vasylkiv and Brovary. Furthermore, Ukrainian Buks should’ve shot down a VKS helicopter near Kyiv.

Russians continued pounding numerous air bases and airfields in central Ukraine yesterday. About 30 ballistic missile strikes on such facilities were recorded between 27 and 28 Feb (US intel is reporting that the Russians spent 380 ballistic missiles since 24 February (see: https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1498322785180995586...)

I know of no reports about activity of interceptors or fighter bombers of the UkAF, but since two days, Ukrainian Bayraktar TB.2s are proving themselves of being capable of operations in high-threat areas over the southern battlefield. That is: in the face of a large concentrations of Russian Pantsyr (SA-22 Greyhound), Tor (SA-15 Gauntlet), and Buk (SA-17 Grizzly) air defence systems. Indeed, seems, they’ve spent the last two days reducing these by quite some number (for details, please follow the Oryx blog: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/.../attack-on-europe...).

 

NORTH

Between Kyiv and the border to Belarus, there is 75km+ long traffic jam consisting of densely packed Russian Army vehicles, lined up in two, sometimes three columns. The mass of vehicles is out of fuel, and there are immense communication problems. Units are using civilian- and obsolete military communication systems, and mostly communicating in clear. This is why it’s easy to track them and find out what’s going on (hear for example: https://ipfs.io/.../QmT93mdDcMMJVBTbVvnQJKUsroGrxqTBj83vS...). It is in this way that it’s meanwhile known that the closer any Russian unit gets to the frontline, the less officers are around. Some have completely abandoned their units.

The situation in Kyiv is tense, but the Russians are only running light, probing attacks against the Ukrainian defence line along the Zdwyzh River, north and west of the city (Ukrainians claim to have blown up all the bridges along the same). There is a curfew during the night, and around the noon today, Zelensky appointed General Mykola Zhernov the Head of the Military Administration of the city (Klichko remains the civilian mayor).

Between the defenders of the city should be quite a few foreign volunteers, meanwhile. RUMINT has it, the ‘most famous’ of these is the Alpha Group, led by a Briton, ex-SAS. Supposedly, they have recovered the hydroelectric dam in a pitched battle with the Spetsnaz, back on Friday (additional info on this ‘Alpha Group’ is most welcome, because I’m lacking the time to concentrate on searching for details about such outfits).

Few minutes ago, the Russians smashed the TV tower in Kyiv, too (see attached photo).

The situation is critical west of the city. During the night from 27 to 28 Feb, the 38th VDV (Airbone) Division of the Russian Army launched an attack from Hostomel/Gostomel towards south. The VDV is one of few ‘branches’ of the Russian Army still functioning reasonably well: intercepted communications and captured documents are indicating that VDV officers are providing reasonably good briefings to their troops. With this, they’re a major exception from the rules in the Russian Army of this war.

The last I was able to find about it, the 38th punched south across the highway E40 and by the last night went all the way to Mostyshche.

With this, the main- and shortest link between Kyiv and Zhitomir (and then to Lutsk and the Polish border) is cut off. There are two other highways further south, but both are a big de-tour.

I gave up trying to find reports from this area in the Ukrainian media: might be an indication of either panic, or intention to launch a counteroffensive there.

 

EAST

The garrison of Chenihiv was holding out yesterday evening. The Russian advance in between Chernihiv and Sumy was stopped by Ukrainian defence line roughly along the P67 motorway, between Nizhyn in the north and Pryluky in the south. The Russian commander of this area is still trying to move enough forces of his 2nd Echelon to renew the push Kyiv. HIs attempts are spoiled by ambushes, lack of fuel and other supplies, though. Essentially, the entire area between Nizhyn, Pryluky and the Ukrainian border is a huge 'no-man's land', with plenty of Russian military columns, but also well-armed Ukrainian guerrilla active there.

Sumy is still in Ukrainian hands, but slowly enveloped by the Russian Army. Ukrainians are claiming to have deployed TB.2s in this area, too, but I haven't seen any videos confirming this.

During the night, a massive artillery barrage hit the Ukrainian Army base in the town named Okhtyrka (roughly half-way between Sumy and Kharkiv), killing more than 70 soldiers and an unknown number of civilians.

Kharkiv is holding out, but the Russians advanced via Trostianets to Lebedyn, further north-west. The city was repeatedly subjected to artillery barrages and air strikes, yesterday and the last night. Possibly one SS-26 strike too (at least there was a major explosion at the Freedom Square, right in front of the Kharkiv Oblast Government Building), the last night.

Contrary to what some report, right now, I do not see any signs of ‘reorganisation’ or anything of that kind on the Russian side in this part of Ukraine. Their advance was slowed down due to heavy losses to Ukrainian ambushes, lack of fuel, food and awful communications. If there’s anything ‘good’ for the Ukrainians, then that their local commander is running quite an effective campaign of ‘hunting supply trucks’. That said, the mass of those caught are empty, indicating the same logistic problems as discussed elsewhere.

With othe words: this frontline is, more or less a chaos (think, the 'Russian military jargon' is something like 'Bardak', but then... hm, this should be readable for kids, too.)

 

SOUTH

The commander of Russian forces deployed in southern Ukraine appears to be one of few ‘hardliners’ – and then one leading at least form the proximity to the frontlines. And he’s doing the best of his situation, considering the Ukrainian TB.2s seem to have blown up a train with fuel for his units. Logical decision was to stop everything where it was, and concentrate on securing his western flank – and the bridgehead on the Dnepr River.

His forces launched a probing attack on Kherson, yesterday in the morning, withdrew, and then he brought in additional forces in the afternoon. The city's defenders were hit by a massive artillery barrage during the night. This was followed by attacks from north and east. Early in the morning today (1 March), the Russians have breached the defences of Kherson and entered it in force. Local civilian authorities have confirmed presence of numerous Russian troops and military vehicles in the city centre as of noon today. Fighting is still going on in the outskirts, but private Ukrainian sources report Russians ‘all around it’. Means, the Russian bridgehead west of Dnepr is not only secured, but they are about to mop up Kherson and then can continue the advance on Mykolaiv.

The Ukrainians claim to have recovered Tokmak, yesterday in the morning. Can’t find any confirmation for this, yet. If so, they’ve probably exploited the Immobilisation of the Russian units in this area - due to the lack of fuel. The latter was decisive for the Russian advance on Mariupol from the West pausing yesterday.

In the Donbass… as announced yesterday, the Russians punched north-west from Luhansk. By the evening they have captured Novoyadar and Nova Astrakhan. The Ukrainian forces are still holding their lines all the way from there to Buhas, but this is already under a massive Russian and Separatist attack. Really bad news for the Ukrainian commander here is that the Russians and Separatists have punched through the defence line further south, the one protecting Mariupol, and – advancing roughly along the coast of the Azov Sea - captured Hnutove.

[dockers_strike]

Heartbreaking seeing that Ukrainian lady journo pleading for NATO to introduce a 'no fly zone.' Would that we could but it would signal a major escalation and Vlad the lunatic possibly going nuclear, in both senses.

[cochyn]

2 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Heartbreaking seeing that Ukrainian lady journo pleading for NATO to introduce a 'no fly zone.' Would that we could but it would signal a major escalation and Vlad the lunatic possibly going nuclear, in both senses.

Would he though, and against who? Using nukes would surely bring global condemnation and likely spur China into at least a response that would have to align them with the West against Russia. It'd be suicide for Russia.  

[Strontium]

I've seen the damage those Turkish-made Bayraktar drones have been doing to Russian convoys. They are way cheaper and simpler than the US Reaper drones, but seem to deliver more bang for your buck.

[SasaS]

6 minutes ago, Strontium said:

I've seen the damage those Turkish-made Bayraktar drones have been doing to Russian convoys. They are way cheaper and simpler than the US Reaper drones, but seem to deliver more bang for your buck.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2021/12/a-monument-of-victory-bayraktar-tb2.html

[dockers_strike]

10 minutes ago, cochyn said:

Would he though, and against who? Using nukes would surely bring global condemnation and likely spur China into at least a response that would have to align them with the West against Russia. It'd be suicide for Russia.  

Well, depending on your view, he's threatened nuclear, biological or chemical response when he said intervene and you'll see a response like you've never had in your history. Plus, his newscast saying he's ordered nuclear assets to high alert.

 

Problem is, when you play brinkmanship it is a dangerous game. There's no going back and saying 'oh sorry Vlad' if he does. Who would he use them against? Id summise NATO targets but he could go the full gammut and launch ICBMs all over the shop.

 

Who is prepared to take that risk?