Coronavirus

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

The International Society on Thrombosis and Haemostasis (ISTH) are recommending that people should still go ahead if offered the AstraZeneca vaccine. 

 

https://www.isth.org/news/556057

[Megadrive Man]

Why would a vaccine cause a blood clot though? That's what I struggle to understand?

 

 

[tokyojoe]

47 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

Why would a vaccine cause a blood clot though? That's what I struggle to understand?

 

 

Blood clot can be caused by many factors. I had a DVT about 20 years ago and no one new the cause.

[Vincent Vega]

Kuenssberg seems to have gone mad, this is actually pretty critical of Johnson and the government.

 

[elvis]

14 hours ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

Seems more likely Europe are jealous of the progress made in the UK for vaccinating and have decided to throw a spanner in the works specifically for the UK produced vaccine. If I'm presented with that one I'll be more than happy to get it in the arm.

Yeah , take one for Boz wot

[Section_31]

10 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

The International Society on Thrombosis and Haemostasis (ISTH) are recommending that people should still go ahead if offered the AstraZeneca vaccine. 

 

https://www.isth.org/news/556057

 

What a Christmas party that'd be.

[Elite]

3 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

What a Christmas party that'd be.

With Sir-Mix-a-Clot DJ'ing.

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

1 hour ago, Vincent Vega said:

Kuenssberg seems to have gone mad, this is actually pretty critical of Johnson and the government.

 

 

Here's the analysis of the analysis...

 

HOW THE UK GOT IT WRONG: As we reach the anniversary of the first coronavirus lockdown, the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg has published an extraordinary and highly revelatory first draft of history detailing the mistakes the government made throughout the pandemic. It is really worth reading in full — after all, these are the allegations we should be hearing at some point in a public inquiry — but Playbook will take you through Laura K’s story bombshell by bombshell.

 

Early complacency: Right at the beginning of the coronavirus outbreak, Johnson privately said “the best thing would be to ignore it,” Kuenssberg reports, and he repeatedly warned that an “overreaction” could do more harm than good. At the beginning of March 2020, Kuenssberg asked a senior member of the government if they were worried about the virus. They replied: “Personally? No.” A source tells her there was a “lack of concern and energy … The general view was it is just hysteria.” The PM and several Cabinet ministers did not want to consider a lockdown.

 

Shaking hands shocker: One of the most damaging claims in Kuenssberg’s story is that, before the first COVID press briefing on March 3, Johnson was told by aides to say that people should stop shaking hands, as per government advice. Instead, Johnson infamously told the presser: “I’ve shaken hands with everybody” while on a visit to a hospital. A Downing Street spokesperson tells the BBC: “The prime minister was very clear at the time he was taking a number of precautionary steps, including frequently washing his hands.” Which is not a denial.

 

Chicken pox parties: It will comes as no surprise that the government’s denials that they ever considered a policy of herd immunity were false. A senior figure tells Kuenssberg there “was a genuine argument in government, which everyone has subsequently denied,” over whether there should be a hard lockdown or a policy pursuing herd immunity. Kuenssberg says there was even talk of “chicken pox parties” where healthy people would be encouraged to deliberately spread the disease.

 

Second wave anger: A Cabinet minister reveals their frustrations with Johnson and Chancellor Rishi Sunak over their attempts to open up the economy in the summer and their reluctance to lock down again: “We knew there was going to be a second wave and there was a row about whether people should work from home or not — it was totally ridiculous.” In September, “a small group inside Downing Street repeatedly tried to change Johnson’s mind” and convince him to lock down, but struggled to persuade him. Another senior minister says: “We should have locked down more severely, earlier in the autumn — the whole point was, the earlier you act the more you buy yourself time for a strategy that can get out.”

 

Fallout: Kuenssberg’s piece is full of anonymous quotes from serving Cabinet ministers and former senior advisers in the government. Downing Street will be pretty confident it knows who’s been speaking. Their fear will be what happens when they go on the record if there is ever a public inquiry into what happened.

 

Pushback: In a stunning coincidence, government sources told the Telegraph’s Gordon Rayner last night that the role of the SAGE scientific advisory body will be reviewed when the pandemic is over, amid concerns it holds too much sway over ministers’ decision-making.

[magicrat]

Are we getting 10 quid off restaurant meals again yet ?  What a stroke of genius that was. 

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

6 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Are we getting 10 quid off restaurant meals again yet ?  What a stroke of genius that was. 

 

In fairness food should be discounted if its tasteless.

[DJLJ]

The 6 - 9 year olds are now the group with the highest rate of corona infections in Denmark. 
 

https://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/samfund/nu-er-smitten-stoerst-hos-boern/8504158

[Baltar]

Who'd have thought it would be European states that would give the most fuel to the anti-vaxxers? What a farcical situation this is. Ever since the start of the pandemic anyone that remotely questioned the safety of these vaccines was labelled an anti-vaxxer conspiracy nut and near-totalitarian suppression of any negative vaccine coverage was imposed across the internet and media. Now various countries have placed enormous doubt on the Oxford vaccine which is being celebrated by anti-vaxxers and scaring the shit out of people that have received the vaccine or due to receive it. Fucking ridiculous. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

2 hours ago, Elite said:

With Sir-Mix-a-Clot DJ'ing.

 

 

Playing Mr. Vein by Culture Beat on repeat. 

[Mudface]

3 hours ago, Vincent Vega said:

Kuenssberg seems to have gone mad, this is actually pretty critical of Johnson and the government.

 

 

2 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

Here's the analysis of the analysis...

 

HOW THE UK GOT IT WRONG: As we reach the anniversary of the first coronavirus lockdown, the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg has published an extraordinary and highly revelatory first draft of history detailing the mistakes the government made throughout the pandemic. It is really worth reading in full — after all, these are the allegations we should be hearing at some point in a public inquiry — but Playbook will take you through Laura K’s story bombshell by bombshell.

 

Early complacency: Right at the beginning of the coronavirus outbreak, Johnson privately said “the best thing would be to ignore it,” Kuenssberg reports, and he repeatedly warned that an “overreaction” could do more harm than good. At the beginning of March 2020, Kuenssberg asked a senior member of the government if they were worried about the virus. They replied: “Personally? No.” A source tells her there was a “lack of concern and energy … The general view was it is just hysteria.” The PM and several Cabinet ministers did not want to consider a lockdown.

 

Shaking hands shocker: One of the most damaging claims in Kuenssberg’s story is that, before the first COVID press briefing on March 3, Johnson was told by aides to say that people should stop shaking hands, as per government advice. Instead, Johnson infamously told the presser: “I’ve shaken hands with everybody” while on a visit to a hospital. A Downing Street spokesperson tells the BBC: “The prime minister was very clear at the time he was taking a number of precautionary steps, including frequently washing his hands.” Which is not a denial.

 

Chicken pox parties: It will comes as no surprise that the government’s denials that they ever considered a policy of herd immunity were false. A senior figure tells Kuenssberg there “was a genuine argument in government, which everyone has subsequently denied,” over whether there should be a hard lockdown or a policy pursuing herd immunity. Kuenssberg says there was even talk of “chicken pox parties” where healthy people would be encouraged to deliberately spread the disease.

 

Second wave anger: A Cabinet minister reveals their frustrations with Johnson and Chancellor Rishi Sunak over their attempts to open up the economy in the summer and their reluctance to lock down again: “We knew there was going to be a second wave and there was a row about whether people should work from home or not — it was totally ridiculous.” In September, “a small group inside Downing Street repeatedly tried to change Johnson’s mind” and convince him to lock down, but struggled to persuade him. Another senior minister says: “We should have locked down more severely, earlier in the autumn — the whole point was, the earlier you act the more you buy yourself time for a strategy that can get out.”

 

Fallout: Kuenssberg’s piece is full of anonymous quotes from serving Cabinet ministers and former senior advisers in the government. Downing Street will be pretty confident it knows who’s been speaking. Their fear will be what happens when they go on the record if there is ever a public inquiry into what happened.

 

Pushback: In a stunning coincidence, government sources told the Telegraph’s Gordon Rayner last night that the role of the SAGE scientific advisory body will be reviewed when the pandemic is over, amid concerns it holds too much sway over ministers’ decision-making.

 

Interesting- if even a lapdog like Kuntsberg is reporting this, then you can bet there's much worse to come. Unless it's the start of Operation Get-Rid-Of-Johnson-And-Pretend-We're-A-New-Government?

[Bruce Spanner]

11 minutes ago, Mudface said:

 

 

Interesting- if even a lapdog like Kuntsberg is reporting this, then you can bet there's much worse to come. Unless it's the start of Operation Get-Rid-Of-Johnson-And-Pretend-We're-A-New-Government?

 

I'm not sure she's a Johnson loyalist as such, I'd say more a Kuenssberg loyalist who got swept up by them to be their mouthpiece on the BBC and really wasn't concerned with the conflict this brought, in fact it looks like she actively enjoys being able to whisper their secrets in public. i'm sure she'd be equaly happy with a similar arrangement with anyone else willing to offer her the same, this goes for Peston as well, self serving cunts.

 

They're a cosy bunch of journo mates who have hijacked democracy and are playing out a juvenile psychodrama, which they belive is more important than anything else, while the country sinks.

[Jairzinho]

 

[SasaS]

12 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Almost as if Astra Zeneca vaccine is seen by everybody in UK and the EU as a UK's national programme of vaccination, not an international pharma operation.

[Jairzinho]

11 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Almost as if Astra Zeneca vaccine is seen by everybody in UK and the EU as a UK's national programme of vaccination, not an international pharma operation.

That's how it's playing out politically.

 

Bit harsh on the Swedes.

[3 Stacks]

58 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Surely this is just basic maths, give 23 million people a jab and in the following weeks a few hundred of them will get sick anyway in the sane way that a couple will get run over by a bus. Never forget correlation is different to causation. 

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but the number of incidences is not the problem. The problem is, there are young and healthy people whose only common trait was getting the AstraZeneca vaccine, that developed very rare and unusual blood clots. The type you supposedly only get when there's a big problem with you and your body is failing. Stuff not seen in healthy people. As a result, they're investigating. Had there not been big scrutiny over that vaccine, this would all seem quite usual. 

[SasaS]

45 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

That's how it's playing out politically.

 

Bit harsh on the Swedes.

I actually find it all incredibly frustrating. Really makes you think that the conspiracy theorists among covid deniers may not be that crazy after all. There is a pandemic going on, on top of the death toll there is a huge economic cost and most people losing at least a year of their life in many aspects  and yet most of these governments continue playing games.

 

All these European pharmas are incredibly slow in joining forces with BioNtech (Pfizer) or now Jenssen (J&J) and dedicating their manufacturing capabilities, whilst they are all still developing their own vaccines despite being well behind. Russia never applied for proper EU approval of Sputnik until recently, preferring to offer it to individual countries for political reasons, they have apparently been asking for contracts to be signed before sending the third stage documentation for approval. Now that is finally being approved by the EMA, EU will be dragging their feet and vaccine won't be mass produced before September. Russia has also been offering huge quantities of vaccines to EU fringe countries and prospective members despite struggling with manufacturing capabilities for their own people.

On top of all the problems with joint procurement in the EU, there is an obvious additional internal market and separate direct deals, with huge differences between the best and worst supplied EU countries.

 

If you look at the successes, I calculated recently 40 percent of vaccines have gone to USA, UK, Israel, and Emirates, it is now 41 or 42 percent. The US is a small net importer now despite having huge manufacturing capabilities because they don't wont to give anybody anything, even to Canada i Mexico.  

 

UK is largely the same, the contract with AZ was written to make sure UK has total and absolute priority in supplies, with separate supply chain and the order placed was so huge to make sure nothing leaves UK until its population is fully vaccinated. The rest would then be donated, obviously without any special politics in mind. Israel is paying a 60 percent premium to Pfizer compared to the alleged EU price, after striking a separate priority supplying deal (mostly from the EU-based production) in exchange for data, which was negotiated between Netanyahu, the health minister and CEO of Pfizer directly, according to the FT. It probably didn't hurt that the CEO was also Jewish. Don't know what the Emirates are doing, probably something with China. 

 

They are all at the same time fiercely resisting calls from South Aftica and India that the patent protection on leading vaccines is removed, which I think they should do. I doubt that total compensation to all winners in the vaccination race, even if they are hugely overcompensated would amount to a fraction of the cost of the pandemic borne by the world economy. And four months after the vaccination started, we are still at 3 or 4 percent globally. Even if you protect your own population, there will be dangers from new waves o variants from  other countries and even if you protect yourself against that, there would be economic cost in diminished trade.

 

Apologies for the long rant.

[Anubis]

2 hours ago, Baltar said:

Who'd have thought it would be European states that would give the most fuel to the anti-vaxxers? What a farcical situation this is. Ever since the start of the pandemic anyone that remotely questioned the safety of these vaccines was labelled an anti-vaxxer conspiracy nut and near-totalitarian suppression of any negative vaccine coverage was imposed across the internet and media. Now various countries have placed enormous doubt on the Oxford vaccine which is being celebrated by anti-vaxxers and scaring the shit out of people that have received the vaccine or due to receive it. Fucking ridiculous. 

I’ve received the Oxford vaccine and I’m not remotely scared.

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I actually find it all incredibly frustrating. Really makes you think that the conspiracy theorists among covid deniers may not be that crazy after all. There is a pandemic going on, on top of the death toll there is a huge economic cost and most people losing at least a year of their life in many aspects  and yet most of these governments continue playing games.

 

All these European pharmas are incredibly slow in joining forces with BioNtech (Pfizer) or now Jenssen (J&J) and dedicating their manufacturing capabilities, whilst they are all still developing their own vaccines despite being well behind. Russia never applied for proper EU approval of Sputnik until recently, preferring to offer it to individual countries for political reasons, they have apparently been asking for contracts to be signed before sending the third stage documentation for approval. Now that is finally being approved by the EMA, EU will be dragging their feet and vaccine won't be mass produced before September. Russia has also been offering huge quantities of vaccines to EU fringe countries and prospective members despite struggling with manufacturing capabilities for their own people.

On top of all the problems with joint procurement in the EU, there is an obvious additional internal market and separate direct deals, with huge differences between the best and worst supplied EU countries.

 

If you look at the successes, I calculated recently 40 percent of vaccines have gone to USA, UK, Israel, and Emirates, it is now 41 or 42 percent. The US is a small net importer now despite having huge manufacturing capabilities because they don't wont to give anybody anything, even to Canada i Mexico.  

 

UK is largely the same, the contract with AZ was written to make sure UK has total and absolute priority in supplies, with separate supply chain and the order placed was so huge to make sure nothing leaves UK until its population is fully vaccinated. The rest would then be donated, obviously without any special politics in mind. Israel is paying a 60 percent premium to Pfizer compared to the alleged EU price, after striking a separate priority supplying deal (mostly from the EU-based production) in exchange for data, which was negotiated between Netanyahu, the health minister and CEO of Pfizer directly, according to the FT. It probably didn't hurt that the CEO was also Jewish. Don't know what the Emirates are doing, probably something with China. 

 

They are all at the same time fiercely resisting calls from South Aftica and India that the patent protection on leading vaccines is removed, which I think they should do. I doubt that total compensation to all winners in the vaccination race, even if they are hugely overcompensated would amount to a fraction of the cost of the pandemic borne by the world economy. And four months after the vaccination started, we are still at 3 or 4 percent globally. Even if you protect your own population, there will be dangers from new waves o variants from  other countries and even if you protect yourself against that, there would be economic cost in diminished trade.

 

Apologies for the long rant.

Good post.

 

Yeah, Russia basically trying to undo EU eastern expansion via a vaccine would be hilarious if it wasn't almost certainly quite dangerous. Politically, I mean. 

[Guest]

When would typical side effects from the vaccination be expected to kick in? 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Anubis said:

I’ve received the Oxford vaccine and I’m not remotely scared.

Same here, they did say though they have to ask for consent for the AZ jab. 

[Elite]

32 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

When would typical side effects from the vaccination be expected to kick in? 

Fairly soon in my experience. 12 hours or so.