Man City - the new bitters?

[J-V]

2 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

The difference between the Guardian's reporting of it and the BBC's is night and day. The BBC have came out with a pissy, watered-down, nothing article.

 

 

 

BBC are scum

[s(k)aturation]

.

[No2]

3 minutes ago, an tha said:

I'd go further than saying nothing big will happen - my bet is they'll get off effectively.

 

Their lawyers will find some loop hole/technicality that whilst they won't be found 'not guilty' they won't be found 'guilty'.

It will be all or nothing, a fine or small penalty suits nobody. City are tarnished forever with a fine, they won't accept it.

 

The other side of that coin is the fine won't be acceptable to Spurs or Arsenal unless it's in the billions. They have lost hundreds of millions in CL money.

[Barrington Womble]

5 hours ago, Carra_is_legend said:

While it gives us all immense pleasure reading all the posts about stripping them off their titles etc........this is what will mostly happen.

 

They will get away with a fine around some technicalities, thanks to the millions they will be spending on their lawyers. This will not only mean they will continue to fuck the game up, it will set up a blue print for the Saudis as well as other oil nations in future.

 

PL are....and always have been a bunch of toothless cunts, I fully expect City to bully them & the independent commission out of the building with their constant PR and strength of top lawyers. PL will say they fully respect the independent commission and thank City for the co-operation. The end.

I'm with you. The PL don't want their brand sullied by the idea it's not fair. They have to do something, but it'll be sure city will get away. 

 

5 hours ago, Nelly-Matip said:

Won’t the Premier League also be hiring/instructing top lawyers to deal with this too? They’re hardly going to let the YTS lad have a crack at it. It’s the integrity of their competition that’s at stake so I can’t see them lying down and just let City call the shots. Particularly when they have also given City an opportunity to cooperate with the process, only to be met with arrogant disdain. 
 

Just read a claim from FourFourTwo that any decision to strip titles will be just that, in that there won’t be a new winner and there just won’t be any winner for those seasons in question. They did seem to be pulling it straight out of their arse though, without quoting any rules or regulations to back it up. 

There's absolutely no way the PL can compete with Abu Dhabi on lawyers. That's not to say the PL will have dickheads, but there's a limit to what they can spend. Abu Dhabi could bankrupt the league with legal fees alone. 

 

39 minutes ago, dave u said:

If the PL don't punish them severely enough, the other clubs should resign and join the football league. Leave City on their own in the PL (unless fellow cheats Everton want to stay with them) while everyone else joins the football league and we go back to divisions one, two, three and four. Imagine that!

 

The PL is just the clubs though isn't it. If the punishment isn't big, it'll be because the battle is lost. 

 

24 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Government white paper due out on independent regulation of the league put back 2 weeks. PL may be getting their own house in order before Gov do.

It's maybe also no coincidence that the 2 biggest clubs in the league are up for sale, there seems limited buyers out there and now the PL are trying to illustrate city can't get it all their own way. I'm sure FSG and the glazers will want sales quickly and maybe use this (before an outcome) to get the fuck out of dodge while there's some pretence of the rules meaning something. 

[Chris]

10 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

The difference between the Guardian's reporting of it and the BBC's is night and day. The BBC have came out with a pissy, watered-down, nothing article.

 

 

 

To be fair, the BBC's remit is to report the news with an absence of any slant, not to call City out for being cunts.

 

That's pretty much what its report does. Says they've been accused, details the allegations, lists the potential punishments and includes a response from City.

 

[niallers]

We did nothing wrong! Well we did, but its not that bad.  OK,it's bad but come on, we just played the system! Ye're just jealous and are all racist, here's 100 million, now fuck off. 

The Donald Trump strategy.

[JohnnyH]

Penny for Pep’s thoughts. 
 

While he always goes where the money is, I’d imagine he’s got some integrity, especially after his statement about walking away if anything is proved to be dodgy. He’ll be lying awake right now I bet trying to work out his next step as he knows that going forward all he’s going to hear in away stadiums is the fans  chanting “cheats” over and over, and journalists asking him about it every time a new counter claim or defence is submitted by City’s legal team. 

[Mathewbet1]

What about loss of earnings for the titles we should have won, its not just the titles its the global exposure the building of a fan base, how can you really put a figure on that, if the PL pussy out on this , then you can bet us and the rest of the top 6 teams have good reasons to sue man city directly. I also doubt the PL would have taken it this far unless they had sufficient evidence , given the force of man city's lawyers.

[Reckoner]

 

 

It seems to me The Premier League wouldn’t make such an intentionally huge accusation with the aim of letting it slide or until they were confident charges will stick.

If they do that they’ve seriously hurt their own brand.

 

[Beno]

28 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I'm with you. The PL don't want their brand sullied by the idea it's not fair. They have to do something, but it'll be sure city will get away. 

 

There's absolutely no way the PL can compete with Abu Dhabi on lawyers. That's not to say the PL will have dickheads, but there's a limit to what they can spend. Abu Dhabi could bankrupt the league with legal fees alone. 

 

 

The PL is just the clubs though isn't it. If the punishment isn't big, it'll be because the battle is lost. 

 

It's maybe also no coincidence that the 2 biggest clubs in the league are up for sale, there seems limited buyers out there and now the PL are trying to illustrate city can't get it all their own way. I'm sure FSG and the glazers will want sales quickly and maybe use this (before an outcome) to get the fuck out of dodge while there's some pretence of the rules meaning something. 

Might change FSG mind, in that they can't compete by sticking to FFP rules when others don't. If PL starts cracking down and FFP applied correctly, then it means we can compete against anyone. 

[Reckoner]

Had to share some of these.

‘Search mee’

[Em City]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

Penny for Pep’s thoughts. 
 

While he always goes where the money is, I’d imagine he’s got some integrity, especially after his statement about walking away if anything is proved to be dodgy. He’ll be lying awake right now I bet trying to work out his next step as he knows that going forward all he’s going to hear in away stadiums is the fans  chanting “cheats” over and over, and journalists asking him about it every time a new counter claim or defence is submitted by City’s legal team. 

 

Hahahahahaha 

 

His brother is chairman of Girona FC, a City Group subsidiary.  He's knee deep in the muck as well.

 

Not to mention he got caught out for taking anabolic steroids as a player. But I'll mention it anyway.

[Barrington Womble]

42 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

Penny for Pep’s thoughts. 
 

While he always goes where the money is, I’d imagine he’s got some integrity, especially after his statement about walking away if anything is proved to be dodgy. He’ll be lying awake right now I bet trying to work out his next step as he knows that going forward all he’s going to hear in away stadiums is the fans  chanting “cheats” over and over, and journalists asking him about it every time a new counter claim or defence is submitted by City’s legal team. 

 

The only thing he doesn't want on him is their dirt. Of course he knows they've cheated. They've just promised him they won't be found guilty and up to now they've been right. 

 

And he's a fucking drug cheat. I never understand why nobody ever mentions it. Oh, he's pep, so they were the good drugs. 

[The Midnight Rambler]

4 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Us going shit just as city might be relegated is the most LFC thing ever, as was a once in a century global pandemic erupting as we were 20 points clear.

Just wait for Yernited to win 5 premier leagues in a row in the next 6 years.

[dockers_strike]

If city's owners 'bankrupt' the PL with their lawyers time and expenses, doesnt that mean city wont have a pot to piss in never mind league to play in?

 

As Ive said, the EFL takes no prisoners to financial irregularities so city wouldnt get away with their shit if after bankrupting the PL, they applied to join the EFL.

[Tj hooker]

Guardiola is getting his get out of jail card in  early he knows full well the shite they are in and him by association so he's looking to get out as soon as the shit hits the fan .

[Creator Supreme]

Nothing will happen to them, nothing at all.

[Mathewbet1]

Questions do have to be asked, why has it taken the PL so long? And why now.

[Aventus]

3 hours ago, joe_fishfish said:

Anything the Premier League’s commission decides against City can be appealed through the UK court system which has a huge backlog of cases right now. So nothing will happen quickly anyway.

Would be a massive shame if they were found guilty and severely punished and it ends up taking them 5 years to appeal it. 

[Tj hooker]

4 minutes ago, Mathewbet1 said:

Questions do have to be asked, why has it taken the PL so long? And why now.

Just throwing this out there maybe just maybe they don't want a repeat of this level of cheating happening with the Saudis in Newcastle because that takeover got the thumbs down initially but obviously went through in the end , and if the Premier league are fearful of this happening again then best to get in now and put a shot across the bows of it potentially happening again 

[dockers_strike]

Jason Birt, This is what I would do if city are found guilty - fuck all!

 

If – and it must be remembered that it remains a very big if at present – Manchester City are found guilty of the 115 charges brought against them by the Premier League then the Sergio Agüero moment will be forever tainted.

So much focus is on what happens next for City if they are guilty of wholesale cooking the books – heavy fines, points deductions even expulsion from the league – but what is also exercising fans is what happens about the past?

City won three league titles during the nine seasons in which they stand accused of breaching financial regulations and three more during the five years of allegedly failing to co-operate. If those charges are proven should all those titles stand? And what of City’s six League Cups and two FA Cups?

Agüero’s late, late goal delivered that first title in May 2012, taking it away from Manchester United only on goal difference. The timing of it – 93.20 minutes – is emblazoned on the side of the Etihad Stadium. There is a statue of Agüero ripping off his shirt in celebration. It was voted the most iconic Premier League moment ever.

And yet if they are found guilty can it ever be viewed the same? At the very least there will be an asterisk beside it in the history books.

Taking away titles is difficult and such retrospective punishment does not actually appear to be within the powers of the independent commission, although there is a catch-all “make such other order as it thinks fit” which could cover that. Like so many things in this case, it would be open to further appeal.

Nevertheless it feels like a step too far. It will be hard for clubs to prove that they lost out on a trophy or, more pertinently for some because of the finances involved, Champions League qualification directly because of City’s behaviour even if they were seeking an unfair advantage.

Yet United and Liverpool may take note – especially with the words of Lord Justice Males, the Court of Appeal judge, who said in July 2021 of the length of time the Premier League investigation was taking “during which, it may be noted, the club [City] have twice been crowned as Premier League champions.”

City claim 'body of irrefutable evidence' supports them

City’s defence is fiercely robust. In a terse 79-word statement the club could not be clearer in its belief that there is “a body of irrefutable evidence” to support its case and that needs to be aired. There has been too much secrecy and cloak-and-dagger about all of this.

What the charges also show is that the Premier League clubs are at war. City sources believe that the Premier League has acted under huge pressure from other clubs and point to the fact that nine of them – Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur, Chelsea, Leicester City, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Newcastle United and Burnley – wrote to the Court of Arbitration for Sport on in March 2020 to argue that City should be excluded from Europe while their successful appeal was heard. Wolves later pulled out.

In the early Abramovich years Chelsea also acted in a similar spending manner to City, provoking Arsène Wenger’s famous “financial doping” comment, and then worked to change the rules to stop others following them. That is also true but it is not a good argument. After all if the speed limit is lowered on a road it is no defence for a driver to claim he should not be prosecuted for speeding because his neighbour drove past his house at 30mph and not 20mph the year before.

'City feel their rivals have ganged up on them'

Even so the next meeting of the Premier League clubs promises to be spicy. City will feel that their rivals have ganged up on them. The gloves are off. At the same time this is the ultimate test for the Premier League to show how strong it is, whether it can prove there is no need for an independent football regulator (timely given the Government White Paper was due out this week) as it has decided to take on City and the legal might its owners have threatened to employ.

The sheer scale of the charges suggests that the endgame is not just a fine and a rap over the knuckles while City will fight every point. This will take months, maybe even years. In English football, this is unprecedented and potentially seismic.

There is so much going on here. So much potential ‘whataboutery’ and politicking – and geo-politicking – but it needs to be stripped down to the facts: if City have been caught out, if they have broken the rules, then they should be punished. And punished severely. Other clubs are sailing close to the wind on Financial Fair Play and this will serve as a warning to them.

City should not have their titles taken away from them, though. What purpose would that serve? It may delight rival fans yet would not only feel vindictive but, as already stated, it is hard to prove that the title was directly won because of financial irregularities. Even so those titles will be spoilt as they will forever be associated with wrongdoing.

Certainly though, if guilty, City need to be severely punished in a meaningful way that affects their future. The sheer volume of charges is shocking and warrants sanctions such as a very large points deduction and being restricted in the way they can operate in a number of subsequent transfer windows.

The bigger question is whether they should face immediate expulsion from the Premier League and there will be demands for that and the answer clearly depends on what is proven and the scale of it.

Instinctively it feels a step too far given the grievous damage it would do to the club and the people it employs but it is something that City might have to contemplate. After all, other clubs could then argue that they have been damaged, and had to make cuts, because of City’s behaviour. If the charges stick and the book is thrown at them then City can have no complaint. They will also have spoiled their own history.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/02/06/strip-manchester-city-titles-what-would-do-guilty/

[Razoray]

3 hours ago, dave u said:

Whatever the punishment is if the charges are proven, it has to be pretty draconian. Like, relegation not just to the Championship, but right to the bottom of the ladder.

 

The reason why it has to be that severe is that you can't have a club cheating for that length of time, distorting a competition where everyone else is playing by the rules. If the punishment isn't massively severe then City will feel the cheating was worth it (because it will have been). You have to hit them with something that shows cheating isn't worth it.

And it tells Newcastle and City that it's worth it to go balls in

[Mathewbet1]

Roberto Mancini is not going to come out of this well. He was being paid double that was on their books according to the guardian/speil, into a company they set up in italy for him. Would it surprise you if pepe were on a similar deal, he's for sure got a unmarked swiss bank account courtesy of UEA waiting for his retirement. Don't tell me either he does not know whats going on, they are corrupt from top to bottom, all this bullshit about leaving if he finds out they are not playing by the rules, he’s a spoilt baby slippery fuck is pepe , ever since using drugs in the 90’s to boost his performance and keep his place in that barca team.

[Ashberry]

I know that it is probably misjudged hope but no way has John Henry and FSG not known that the PL were going to bring these charges against city. It would be in their interest and interests of every other club trying to play by the rules that city is held to account. Considering we could have three more leagues then FSG must feel more aggrieved by city's cheating than most.

 

With the involvement in the ESL and previous comments on FFP it is clear that FSG want to level the playing field. FSG and probably other club owners in England and Europe are surely pressing the PL in this situation and being insistent on holding Man city to account on this. 

 

I think FSG are confident on this and willing to use the threat of the super League if City aren't penalised. I can't see many having all too many gripes if there is a breakaway on the same day if Man City are given the all clear to carry on cooking the books.

 

This could explain many of the backroom departures with FSG saying they will not invest until FFP within PL or FFP via ESL is implemented. Seems like a risky move but with worthwhile reward. It would also explain Chelsea's spending by trying to buy up what they can before FFP is implemented.

 

Probably misplaced hope but I can't imagine the businessmen of FSG not trying to protect their investment vehicle.

 

 

[Mathewbet1]

Another argument is that if the PL had stamped out these fuckers , a few years earlier, when the should have, then we would have at least 2 more PL’s in the bank, we have more reason's than most clubs to be aggrieved.