Man City - the new bitters?

[Simbo]

4 hours ago, mike23 said:

You really have to wonder why it has been allowed to go on for so long. Had it been dealt with sooner then in addition to 2 more titles we might also have an additional Champions League to our name. How different might that Champions League final last year have been if we hadn't gone into it after the soul destroying blow of losing out to them cheats on the last day of the season yet again? If we hadn't had to go balls out in every single game in the run in for months while Real Madrid in contrast had their league wrapped up with weeks to go? The pessimist in me just feels that even if they somehow end up experiencing a severe punishment for this that it will all end up being too late for us and it will be other teams who benefit from it. Maybe Klopp can build another great team from the current ruins, but it all feels like a big if at the moment. 

Ifithadnabinfor…….?

[Barrington Womble]

4 hours ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Whatever happens it's the end of city as a big player. They're not coming back from this. Should hopefully provide a lift for us for coming seasons.

I don't think that's true..it's why they've spent the last 3 years inventing companies or using other companies controlled by Abu Dhabi to increase their commercial revenues. Despite the fact nobody watches them, they give away their match tickets, they seem to appeal to sponsors more than any club on the planet. Until someone chooses to get a hold.of that too, which seems pretty unlikely, then the cheat will continue in a different form. 

[TheSire]

8 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

Penny for Pep’s thoughts. 
 

While he always goes where the money is, I’d imagine he’s got some integrity, especially after his statement about walking away if anything is proved to be dodgy. He’ll be lying awake right now I bet trying to work out his next step as he knows that going forward all he’s going to hear in away stadiums is the fans  chanting “cheats” over and over, and journalists asking him about it every time a new counter claim or defence is submitted by City’s legal team. 

He was a drugs cheat whilst a player and got an 18 month ban for steroid use.

[Pete]

Lock them up! Lock them up! Lock them up!

 

[JohnnyH]

8 hours ago, Em City said:

 

Hahahahahaha 

 

His brother is chairman of Girona FC, a City Group subsidiary.  He's knee deep in the muck as well.

 

Not to mention he got caught out for taking anabolic steroids as a player. But I'll mention it anyway.

 

7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

The only thing he doesn't want on him is their dirt. Of course he knows they've cheated. They've just promised him they won't be found guilty and up to now they've been right. 

 

And he's a fucking drug cheat. I never understand why nobody ever mentions it. Oh, he's pep, so they were the good drugs. 

 

28 minutes ago, TheSire said:

He was a drugs cheat whilst a player and got an 18 month ban for steroid use.

 

Ah yes, the internet. My mistake for using the word integrity which allowed people ignore my main point and drag up something from over 20 years ago. Ok, I’ll try and be clearer on what I meant. 
 

Pep has been very clear that if there is wrong doing he’ll walk.  He knows that even now with over 110 charges of cheating that this mud will stick and everything he’s won is forever massively tainted. Even if City can grease their way out of this again like they did when they were thrown out of Europe a few years back, it doesn’t matter - they are forever now the cheats. That’s twice they’ve been charged. The are OJ Simpson. Even if they get off, they’re done as a serious entity. Pep knows all that and has massive decisions to make. I’ll bet he’s seriously pissed off he signed that new contract. He’ll be on the phone to PSG as we speak. 

[DaveT]

This will rumble on for ages. But hopefully there will be sufficient of a dark cloud over City through the summer and beyond to deter the likes of Bellingham from wanting to join them and for current players to want to jump ship.

[No2]

7 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Jason Birt, This is what I would do if city are found guilty - fuck all!

 

If – and it must be remembered that it remains a very big if at present – Manchester City are found guilty of the 115 charges brought against them by the Premier League then the Sergio Agüero moment will be forever tainted.

So much focus is on what happens next for City if they are guilty of wholesale cooking the books – heavy fines, points deductions even expulsion from the league – but what is also exercising fans is what happens about the past?

City won three league titles during the nine seasons in which they stand accused of breaching financial regulations and three more during the five years of allegedly failing to co-operate. If those charges are proven should all those titles stand? And what of City’s six League Cups and two FA Cups?

Agüero’s late, late goal delivered that first title in May 2012, taking it away from Manchester United only on goal difference. The timing of it – 93.20 minutes – is emblazoned on the side of the Etihad Stadium. There is a statue of Agüero ripping off his shirt in celebration. It was voted the most iconic Premier League moment ever.

And yet if they are found guilty can it ever be viewed the same? At the very least there will be an asterisk beside it in the history books.

Taking away titles is difficult and such retrospective punishment does not actually appear to be within the powers of the independent commission, although there is a catch-all “make such other order as it thinks fit” which could cover that. Like so many things in this case, it would be open to further appeal.

Nevertheless it feels like a step too far. It will be hard for clubs to prove that they lost out on a trophy or, more pertinently for some because of the finances involved, Champions League qualification directly because of City’s behaviour even if they were seeking an unfair advantage.

Yet United and Liverpool may take note – especially with the words of Lord Justice Males, the Court of Appeal judge, who said in July 2021 of the length of time the Premier League investigation was taking “during which, it may be noted, the club [City] have twice been crowned as Premier League champions.”

City claim 'body of irrefutable evidence' supports them

City’s defence is fiercely robust. In a terse 79-word statement the club could not be clearer in its belief that there is “a body of irrefutable evidence” to support its case and that needs to be aired. There has been too much secrecy and cloak-and-dagger about all of this.

What the charges also show is that the Premier League clubs are at war. City sources believe that the Premier League has acted under huge pressure from other clubs and point to the fact that nine of them – Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur, Chelsea, Leicester City, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Newcastle United and Burnley – wrote to the Court of Arbitration for Sport on in March 2020 to argue that City should be excluded from Europe while their successful appeal was heard. Wolves later pulled out.

In the early Abramovich years Chelsea also acted in a similar spending manner to City, provoking Arsène Wenger’s famous “financial doping” comment, and then worked to change the rules to stop others following them. That is also true but it is not a good argument. After all if the speed limit is lowered on a road it is no defence for a driver to claim he should not be prosecuted for speeding because his neighbour drove past his house at 30mph and not 20mph the year before.

'City feel their rivals have ganged up on them'

Even so the next meeting of the Premier League clubs promises to be spicy. City will feel that their rivals have ganged up on them. The gloves are off. At the same time this is the ultimate test for the Premier League to show how strong it is, whether it can prove there is no need for an independent football regulator (timely given the Government White Paper was due out this week) as it has decided to take on City and the legal might its owners have threatened to employ.

The sheer scale of the charges suggests that the endgame is not just a fine and a rap over the knuckles while City will fight every point. This will take months, maybe even years. In English football, this is unprecedented and potentially seismic.

There is so much going on here. So much potential ‘whataboutery’ and politicking – and geo-politicking – but it needs to be stripped down to the facts: if City have been caught out, if they have broken the rules, then they should be punished. And punished severely. Other clubs are sailing close to the wind on Financial Fair Play and this will serve as a warning to them.

City should not have their titles taken away from them, though. What purpose would that serve? It may delight rival fans yet would not only feel vindictive but, as already stated, it is hard to prove that the title was directly won because of financial irregularities. Even so those titles will be spoilt as they will forever be associated with wrongdoing.

Certainly though, if guilty, City need to be severely punished in a meaningful way that affects their future. The sheer volume of charges is shocking and warrants sanctions such as a very large points deduction and being restricted in the way they can operate in a number of subsequent transfer windows.

The bigger question is whether they should face immediate expulsion from the Premier League and there will be demands for that and the answer clearly depends on what is proven and the scale of it.

Instinctively it feels a step too far given the grievous damage it would do to the club and the people it employs but it is something that City might have to contemplate. After all, other clubs could then argue that they have been damaged, and had to make cuts, because of City’s behaviour. If the charges stick and the book is thrown at them then City can have no complaint. They will also have spoiled their own history.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/02/06/strip-manchester-city-titles-what-would-do-guilty/

Hard to prove the financial irregularities led to the success? They lost 8-1 at Middlesbrough on the final day of the season before the money was injected. Gnasher could prove that point.

[A_S]

5 hours ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Whatever happens it's the end of city as a big player. They're not coming back from this. Should hopefully provide a lift for us for coming seasons.

I'm hoping it might stir a bit of righteous anger within the playing group that they've run themselves into the ground over the last few years trying to keep up with these cheating fucks. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, No2 said:

Hard to prove the financial irregularities led to the success? They lost 8-1 at Middlesbrough on the final day of the season before the money was injected. Gnasher could prove that point.

Didn't they break their own transfer record the day (or within days) that the Sheik took over?  Robinho for £35M or something like that. 

[Poor Scouser T]

10am bbc 5 Live topic being discussed. Ok it's Nicky Fking Campbell but it's mainstream.

[Poor Scouser T]

Wonder if players and managers have declared salaries to HMRC. That is a whole different level of shit

[Mathewbet1]

they probably declared half, it's an open secrete that city pay the majority of their staff in brown paper envelopes to avoid the tax man.

[Pete]

28 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

10am bbc 5 Live topic being discussed. Ok it's Nicky Fking Campbell but it's mainstream.

Listening now. Can I just say I fucking hate the Manc accent.  

[Poor Scouser T]

Decent listen so far.

[magicrat]

On further reflection whilst I still think the chance of any meaningful retrospective punishment is virtually zero there is a chance they will be stigmatised and damaged with years of allegations and stories coming out whist it all drags on . Got to have some knock on effect on the pitch and in the transfer market. Maybe it will be death by a thousand cuts rather than a firing squad.

 

This said the damage is done and we won’t be getting back the silverware they robbed .All we can hope for is a slow decline in their fortunes as they struggle to pump cash into the club from now on .

[Poor Scouser T]

Ha ha ha its racism

[Creator Supreme]

3 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Ha ha ha its racism

Which tit came out with that?

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Ha ha ha its racism

I'm a few minutes behind but just got here.  Oh dear.  If that's his best argument...

[Poor Scouser T]

2 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

Which tit came out with that?

Citeh fan.

[Mathewbet1]

Could the PL force UAE to dissolve or sell the club if found guilty, i'm sure they could if they wanted too.

[Creator Supreme]

4 minutes ago, Poor Scouser T said:

Citeh fan.

Pathetic bastards.

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, Mathewbet1 said:

Could the PL force UAE to dissolve or sell the club if found guilty, i'm sure they could if they wanted too.

 

Doubt it, it would take so long to actually get through various legal challenges, with no idea where it would land, that it'd hardly be worth it.

 

Chelsea's forced sale was based on far far more serious events.

[Poor Scouser T]

Even if the result is they stop spending 80m on a back up right back it is a result.

[Pete]

Looking forward to the return of the League 2 Macclesfield FC v Man City fixture. 

[Fnk]

Imagine how good KDB will look in league2.