Ched Evans

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Nothing to do with wearing provocative clothing. Just widely accepted facts. Most blokes go out to get as drunk as possible and pull.

 

Granted, women do too. But I think the "I only kiss on a first night" crew mainly have vaginas.

[deiseach]

Well, I'm not am I.

 

I haven't pretended to be an expert on the case, I am just saying from the little I know the case seems a bit dodge. What I am really saying is that both individual's rights should be protected, not just those of the woman.

You are. Reasonable doubt isn't what you think is dodge.

[Spy Bee]

You are. Reasonable doubt isn't what you think is dodge.

I know what reasonable doubt is ta.

 

Anyway, this is the shittest Friday evening I have ever had. I'm going to improve mine from here on in... I suggest you mongs do the same!

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I can't see how much more Evans' rights can be protected?

 

He's had a fair trial. This was confirmed when he applied for leave to appeal, which was dismissed on the basis that all directions were fine, no errors in law etc.

 

I'm curious as to why he is considering appealing again, unless he has some really strong evidence and is convinced of his innocence.

 

But, why would the victim complain to the police? To my knowledge, she hasn't sold her story or done it for money etc?

[ratcatcher]

How is forensic evidence relevant if the accused admits having sex with her?

 

It would neither prove or disprove anything.

 

Sorry but you are kidding, right?

 

Do you think its a sound sentence based on someone saying "yes, I had sex with her \ him" and there being no evidence of body fluids or DNA confirming the act of penetration?

 

Dont you remember a case a few years ago, a bloke called Stefan (cant remember his last name) who confessed to having murdered a girl. There was no forensic evidence, he was banged up for 15 years I think before improved DNA profiling proved he didnt murder the poor girl. There have been other instances where lack of forensic evidence has still resulted in a guilty verdict only to be proved erroneous years later.

 

Yes, these are different crimes and circumstances but I personally think its very dangerous to say lack of forensic evidence neither proves nor disproves anything.

 

EDIT; anyway Im out of this debate as I dont know all the trial evidence. I dont know if he is \ isnt guilty and its far too much of a very sensitive subject.

[deiseach]

I know what reasonable doubt is ta.

 

People who know the law like, you know, loads of judges, disagree with you.

[El Dangerous]

Legally and morally?

 

Yes it is largely blokes that do it, but does that mean it's just acceptable for it to be ignored?

Nobody is saying it is. You're getting confused between the act and the terminology. The act is as disgusting and wrong regardless of the sex but the terminology is different.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Sorry but you are kidding, right?

 

Do you think its a sound sentence based on someone saying "yes, I had sex with her \ him" and there being no evidence of body fluids or DNA confirming the act of penetration?

 

Dont you remember a case a few years ago, a bloke called Stefan (cant remember his last name) who confessed to having murdered a girl. There was no forensic evidence, he was banged up for 15 years I think before improved DNA profiling proved he didnt murder the poor girl. There have been other instances where lack of forensic evidence has still resulted in a guilty verdict only to be proved erroneous years later.

 

Yes, these are different crimes and circumstances but I personally think its very dangerous to say lack of forensic evidence neither proves nor disproves anything.

Not kidding at all. I meant in this case.

 

The only issue was consent. I remember the case you refer to, but didn't that bloke have learning difficulties, unlike Evans?

 

Evans had sex with her. Vigorously. He admitted it. Pointless wasting money and time getting evidence for a point that has been conceded/admitted.

 

Consent was the only issue.

[Boss]

I once had this girl in school after me for years and she'd wait until i was bladdered at party's to make her move. I'd be staggering around wasted and she'd be like "NO, i'll look after him" and my mates would have to physically get her away from me. There was a time when i remember her stroking my head in someone's bathroom, she was kissing my ear and whispering sweet nothings to me, and even in an almost paralytic state i thought "this is fucking weird".

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I think another issue is that she may have fully intended to bang the other accused. But not Evans.

 

She's fully entitled to take somebody back to a hotel for sex. But that in no way means that the mates can jump on once she's conked out.

[Rico1304]

Should he be able to follow any career that doesn't preclude a conviction? Yes.

Should any club be able to employ him? Yes

Would I want him at Liverpool? No

 

It'd be a desperate club that took him on, but if they were willing to take the consequences that's their lookout.

[VladimirIlyich]

I have been completely pissed before, but have been held conversations, gone to chipper and had sex - but the next day had no recollection of what I've said, being in the chipper or getting laid.

 

If on one of these such nights I went back to a hotel, tried it on and then rode one bird and then the next day it turned out I had sex with the other bird too then I don't see how I could reasonably accuse her of rape even if I didn't know what happened. Funny that this is a case that has been jumped on by feminists but it kind of highlights a certain sexism in the law which assumes the man as the one who has all the agency. It's hard to comment on the particulars of a case without knowing the details but I have a feeling Ched Evans (regardless of whether he did wrong that night) is the victim of an interpretation of rape that is too protective of the woman.

 

This is a different one to the one raised in this case but is one I've thought about having read articles on the Evans thing. It may be completely politically incorrect to say but is it not very common for men to have to 'persuade' women to have sex whether its because the women doesn't want to appear 'easy' or genuinely for moral reasons have sex - but you can tell that in about 15 minutes you'll be having sex? Similarly me and my friends are noticing women asking for more hair pulling/rough sex these days (without prior encouragement) in one night stands but everything you read in the guardian etc talks about how men are imposing this stuff on women?

 

I have done quite a few feminists courses in college and feel I have quite a good grasp of feminism and understand the majority of sexual violence goes unpunished and mainstream society is extremely misogynistic but I do think a lot of energy of feminist cause is lost campagining about petty/irrelevant celebrity bullshit and as a movement it can be quite dishonest about real life interactions between men and women.

Guilty,for using the word Chipper in a post that is neither about retro kid's bikes or ways of recycling chopped down trees.

[Joe Strummer]

I honesty can't believe this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

His parents named him Ched.

[Phoenix]

I honesty can't believe this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

His parents named him Chedwyn.

[Jairzinho]

Sign him up.

[Newport]

Why would he even want to return to football? The torrent of abuse he's in for will have no end to it.

[Grinch]

Why would he even want to return to football? The torrent of abuse he's in for will have no end to it.

 

I'll take a wild guess it's got something to do with the thousands a pounds a week that a complete idiot can't earn any other way.

[El Dangerous]

Yeah but imagine the opportunities available to a convicted rapist on the mean streets of Rhyl. Who needs football when you can become a professional slots machine player .

[VladimirIlyich]

Yeah but imagine the opportunities available to a convicted rapist on the mean streets of Rhyl. Who needs football when you can become a professional slots machine player .

Being the Space Invader Champion will take on a whole new meaning.

[Spy Bee]

I think another issue is that she may have fully intended to bang the other accused. But not Evans.

 

She's fully entitled to take somebody back to a hotel for sex. But that in no way means that the mates can jump on once she's conked out.

Nobody at any stage has disagreed with this. If she didn't consent then it's rape and rape is bad. That's the bits we all agree on.

 

Some people are suggesting that the evidence to convict him seems (without knowing the full facts) quite flimsy.

[Alan Sex]

So to sum up this thread I must paraphrase the ubiquitous Haddaway.

 

What is rape?

Baby don't hurt me

Don't hurt me

No more.

[Fugitive]

Maybe Sheffield United could find some other job for him?

 

Proof that Nightcat is a rapist.

[El Dangerous]

Nighty doesn't do rapes he just grabs the booty.

[Koptimus Prime]

No one fingerbangs anymore, sad, sad times.

[Mathewbet1]

The famous 'Rapist Ched evans'. Surley he's got a good career as an after dinner speaker?