John Barnes claims racism is stopping him managing again

[xerxes]

I was pretty surprised to read this.

 

Barnes was a fine footballer, and has been a distinguished voice for the game and LFC since his retirement.

 

He did however cock up two of the softest jobs in football, Celtic and Tranmere, and walked out of the Jamaican national manager's job. That is three bites of the cherry.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-legend-john-barnes-claims-5424668

[an tha]

Love Digger but he is talking out of his arse in my view. If he had done the business in those other jobs he would be in a job today.

[Paulie Dangerously]

He's always been an island of common sense and calm in a sea of racial hysteria has Barnsey but he's gone off a bit on this.

[The Guest]

If you actually read what he's saying it's not that outlandish.  He's saying other managers fuck up all the time but because of perceptions they just walk into another job.

 

We don't know what he's gone through because he hasn't gone into too much detail.  For all we know he may have gone for jobs where the person hired has fucked up more than Barnes did.  Roy Keane hasn't been successful anywhere himself yet but you could guarantee he would walk into a job if he wanted it.  The headline makes you instantly think about his failures but he's actually saying he just deserves another chance and if he was white he probably would have had that by now and he is probably right in my opinion. 

[Bjornebye]

Keane was Man Utd captain for 9 years. Big difference between Keane and Barnes when it comes to picking a potential manager and it has fuck all to do with colour.

 

I don't think Barnes is a capable manager and he oversaw one of the biggest shocks of the decade when Caley Thistle beat Celtic at Parkhead. Whenever I think of John Barnes - The manager I just think of the headline 'supercaleygoballisticcelticareatrocious';. I'm sure others do too especially decision makers within clubs who probably have 20+ cv's land on their desks every-time a vacancy comes up.

 

There aren't many black managers in English football because most managers nowadays played in the 70's and 80's when there were far less black players. In 20 years time the % of black managers will be much higher. Its just the way it is and people constantly using racism as an excuse is getting boring now.

[Major Tom]

I was pretty surprised to read this.

 

Barnes was a fine footballer, and has been a distinguished voice for the game and LFC since his retirement.

 

He did however cock up two of the softest jobs in football, Celtic and Tranmere, and walked out of the Jamaican national manager's job. That is three bites of the cherry.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-legend-john-barnes-claims-5424668

 

Three bites of the cherry is nothing. Some of these managers get sacked for a living and still manage to find jobs.

 

I have no idea why Barnes isn't working but being sacked twice is not it.

[Jairzinho]

Three bites of the cherry is nothing. Some of these managers get sacked for a living and still manage to find jobs.

 

I have no idea why Barnes isn't working but being sacked twice is not it.

 

Correct. There are managers that have had 10/12 jobs in English football without achieving anything in any of them.

[JohnnyH]

I tihnk the figures are much more towards people only ever getting 1 bite of the cherry.  I remember reading somewhere that over 90% of former players get one shot at management; get sacked, and are never seen in football again.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

He might have a point, the problem is the list of examples is too small to draw any real conclusion from. It's hard to stand by his assertion that very few black managers can lose their job and get another one when there are so few in the first place.

 

There are definitely a lot of shite journeyman white managers though, which makes the number of black managers look paltry, and the assertion that the best will continue to be employed look a mockery.

[xerxes]

Three bites of the cherry is nothing. Some of these managers get sacked for a living and still manage to find jobs.I have no idea why Barnes isn't working but being sacked twice is not it.

Statistically, most have just one.

 

I did not suggest that there was a numeric cut off point for being off a managerial short list.

 

It is not about how many times you have been sacked, it is an almost inevitable part of the job, it is the circumstances of your departure which counts.

 

Few aspiring managers would get the chance to manage Celtic, what you do with it is up to you, and the results there, and at Tranmere, were awful.

 

He has been out of he pro game now for six years. When he had contemporary experience he struggled, now it would be much harder still, and the demands are becoming ever greater. Foreign language skills and experience coaching abroad are becoming more important.

 

I wish him well, but his rant has only highlighted his record, not put a credible case for racism.

[The Guest]

This is John Barnes we are talking about as well. 

 

If you ever listen to him talk I find he always makes sense and he genuinely has an interesting different take on things.  Add that to the fact he's John fucking Barnes.  Fair enough other managers might only get one shot at things but they aren't John Barnes.

 

Cup shocks and stupid results can happen to anybody.  It was his first job in management.  Subsequently managing Tranmere and Jamaica doesn't really tell us a lot because it's not as if they haven't struggled since then.  He's quite clearly a knowleagable football man and if I was running the club I'd have him involved in some way or another and more than likely have him coaching our youth teams.  He's an inspirational figure and I'd love to see him back involved in some way.

[Baltar]

There are some seriously shit managers that keep getting hired. I'm not saying Barnes is a good manager but he was pretty much a novice when he took on the Celtic and then Tranmere jobs so deserves another chance assuming he has all those badges that coaches need.

[magicrat]

Pretty disappointed Digger has done this . Over the years he has transcended race issues by the strength of his personality and the simple fact he talks sense whilst others spout shite.

I am damn sure had he had any talent of football management he would have taken any discrimination in his stride and done what he has always done throughout his career; let his ability and natural abilty shine through. What club wouldn't want John Barnes if he could do the job ? 

[Byrnie]

Three bites of the cherry is nothing. Some of these managers get sacked for a living and still manage to find jobs.

 

I have no idea why Barnes isn't working but being sacked twice is not it.

Have you anything to back this up with? I'd wager the figures are that most get 1/2 chances.

[Boss]

If you actually read what he's saying it's not that outlandish.  He's saying other managers fuck up all the time but because of perceptions they just walk into another job.

 

We don't know what he's gone through because he hasn't gone into too much detail.  For all we know he may have gone for jobs where the person hired has fucked up more than Barnes did.  Roy Keane hasn't been successful anywhere himself yet but you could guarantee he would walk into a job if he wanted it.  The headline makes you instantly think about his failures but he's actually saying he just deserves another chance and if he was white he probably would have had that by now and he is probably right in my opinion. 

 

Roy Keane took over Sunderland when they where second bottom of the Championship and got them promoted in the very same year, then he secured a premier league mid table finish in the next season. Digger has failed to stay in any job for a single calendar year, getting knocked out of the Scottish cup at Celtic by Inverness Caledonian Thistle and having a mare at Tranmere with Jason McAteer.

 

I like Digger he's boss, but i think if he stepped down to conference level he may succeed, but he'd have to lower his expectations drastically of premier league and even football league clubs taking a chance on him. The reality is he failed in Scotland, he failed miserably in League One, and the whole story about Tranmere players nicknaming him and McAteer "dumb and dumber" doesn't bode well for future managerial opportunities.

[thompsonsnose]

He's a top bloke, was a great footballer.

But not very good at presenting or managing.

Decent pundit though.

Can't do it all.

[G Richards]

Not sure what to make of this. His poor record as a manager undermines his case somewhat. Fantastic player. Generally talks a lot of sense, but this is in danger of veering into Sol Campbell territory.

[xerxes]

There are some seriously shit managers that keep getting hired. I'm not saying Barnes is a good manager but he was pretty much a novice when he took on the Celtic and then Tranmere jobs so deserves another chance assuming he has all those badges that coaches need.

I think that the problem is that Celtic is seen as a club where man management is all at a successful club with top resources for their division, and Tranmere is a club which requires coaching and motivational skillswhere money is scarce. If you have failed at both of those, where do you go? What skills are you offering?

 

Digger probably thought that KK could protect him in his first job, instead KK turned things around and won a cup.

 

In retrospect, Tranmere, when he still had good contacts in the NW would have been the better start for him.

[Mook]

Just popping in to let you know that I think Roy Keane is a twat.

[FanchesterCity]

He's a very likeable character and always puts forward a rationale for his views (even if you disagree with them sometimes).

 

I have no doubt that racism still lurks in managerial appointments (or lack of). It needn't be anything aggressive, or extreme right wing, but I think subliminal prejudice is there.

 

Has if affected John Barnes? quite possibly, yes - but it won't be the only factor influencing things. It's probably misleading to suggest racism played the largest part, I personally don't believe that.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

He's a very likeable character and always puts forward a rationale for his views (even if you disagree with them sometimes).

 

I have no doubt that racism still lurks in managerial appointments (or lack of). It needn't be anything aggressive, or extreme right wing, but I think subliminal prejudice is there.

 

Has if affected John Barnes? quite possibly, yes - but it won't be the only factor influencing things. It's probably misleading to suggest racism played the largest part, I personally don't believe that.

Barnes is one of my all time favourite players, and seems to be a both intelligent and very nice person. Just wanted to state that, and say that I agree with your post.

[Stu Monty]

Hard to say whether Barnes has been hindered by racism or not but I don't think it's much of a leap to think that when football clubs are run by loads of old, white dudes with attitudes like Dave Whelan you're going to have your opportunities hindered. 

 

Some people who spent the eighties thinking that black players were athletes but certainly not thinkers haven't suddenly seen the light and changed with the times. They've just shut the fuck up because they know it's the sensible thing to do.

[moof]

If John Barnes says racism is preventing him from getting another job I'm inclined to agree with him. Then again, I'd agree with him if he told me the sky was red and Earth was flat

[stringvest]

Some people who spent the eighties thinking that black players were athletes but certainly not thinkers haven't suddenly seen the light and changed with the times. They've just shut the fuck up because they know it's the sensible thing to do.

 

There are some free schools which have this view as a cornerstone of their founder's thinking (although they will of course dispute this).

[Longview1982]

There aren't many black managers in English football because most managers nowadays played in the 70's and 80's when there were far less black players. In 20 years time the % of black managers will be much higher. Its just the way it is and people constantly using racism as an excuse is getting boring now.

 

That isn't true. 55 current managers are under 50 - so they will have played in the late 90's and 00's in a time where there were several black players in every team.

 

When you look into just how many job opportunities there have been in the last decade - usually 40 or 50 every season - it's incredible that there have been, and still continues to be, almost no black managers in English professional football.

 

 

Total managerial changes

 

Season Premier League Championship League One League Two Total

2014/15 1,11,4,7,....23

2013/14 9,18,8,6,....44

2012/13 10,19,17,14,...60

2011/12 11,9,10,9,....39

2010/11 12,14,19,10,...55

2009/10 12,7,18,11,....48

2008/09 13,16,12,10,....51

2007/08 14,12,9,15,....50

2006/07 10,17,13,4,....44

2005/06 8,11,14,15,....48