Anfield or New Anfield

[Barrington Womble]

I know I was a sucker for the 'spade in the ground in 60 days' and am quite a bit more cynical now, but I'll be absolutely stunned if we end up with a groundshare. They will stay at Anfield before sharing imo.

 

staying at anfield requires considerable co-operation from the council. the council want groundshare.

 

They arent soft for one, something will happen when theres news to report.

 

as for groundshare, they both said on the channel on the phone in, if the fans dont want it, it wont happen.

 

and you think if it doesn't suit them they won't spin that? I struggle to believe the trust people put into a bunch of american business men based on nothing more than PR soundbites. they're here to make money. they will choose the path which will enable them to make the most money in the shortest time. if that is groundshare, it will be groundshare. if there's a better option, i am sure they will take it. i am just making the point anyone who thinks groundshare is off the table is fooling themselves.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I can't see a groundshare. These people are not in the business of alienating their own client base.

[Antynwa]

Why would they spend the money they have on the club to share stadium revenues with a club who won't sell out the ground?

[Heinze]

Groundshare will never happen.

[Guest ShoePiss]

The club absolutely have a responsibility regarding the surrounding area, right now and for the longest time their residence has had a negative impact on the general environment.

 

Right now the club is an oasis, huge amounts of money pour into that establishment and the surrounding area is a shithole. They've basically been taking without giving much back, traffic, pollution, rubbish and the rest of it. It's a pisstake. Those boarded up houses increase the general social issues, if they were not vacant it would be such a waste land around there.

 

They have to play a big part in the re-generation of the area in tandem with the council.

 

Another thing is the transportation plan, why should that only come into effect if they go beyond 60k? It's needed now, even if at this time it's something like the club working with the local transport companies so that a season ticket gets you a free bus ride for the day.

 

They need to minimise their impact just like any other large business would have to.

 

I still dont get the whole re-generation thing, anfield is a shit hole area because of the council and the people, why should the club dig them out?

 

Its not the clubs fault is it.

 

Did you miss this from a few pages back? If you didn't I would like to see why it didn't help you understand or where it's completely wrong.

[aws]

Everton's idea of a groundshare last time it was really considered was Liverpool pay all development costs, they take a lease for their match days, they have a right to buy a 50% interest in the stadium when it suits them.

 

Can't really see anyone wanting that deal.

[Barrington Womble]

Why would they spend the money they have on the club to share stadium revenues with a club who won't sell out the ground?

 

In business terms they've not spent anything yet, the asset will sit on their books for more than they've paid. If they want out tomorrow, they'll get their money back no problem.

 

Whatever the club want to do from here needs co-operation from the council. The council want groundshare. Until the ground is built without the shite, it will never be off the agenda.

 

Aws mentions that everton want us to pay and them to lease on matchdays. Let's say they drop the demand for an option to buy in. With sponsorship and evertons lease money, FSG would have very little financial commitment to a new parry bowl.

[Antynwa]

Put it this way.

 

Everton couldn't afford the £35 Million to buy into the Kings Dock Scheme.

 

How are they going to remotely afford a ground share?

[Barrington Womble]

Put it this way.

 

Everton couldn't afford the £35 Million to buy into the Kings Dock Scheme.

 

How are they going to remotely afford a ground share?

 

Read the post from aws. Lease. They'd be our tenant.

[Antynwa]

Read the post from aws. Lease. They'd be our tenant.

 

Ah sound.

 

What if they default?

[Guest the boy]

I hear what you're saying, but I still think it is so easy to be blinded by the showbiz of it all, ie. watching a big match where we raise our game and beat Man united or somone, watching the Kop sing YNWA, watching us play so well against the best team in the country. Also seeing how big our fanbase is and reading a few books on our history and thinking "where do we sign up?".

 

I fear re. the stadium, Henry and Werner may have thought, "how hard can it be?" only going off what they know from working in the States.

 

For new comers to English football and England itself, they may not know how the economics work over here (I'm not saying I do at depth either, but I know pretty much everything here is more expensive than it is in USA, steel, labour etc. more over the extra difficulties in getting planning permissions etc. in such a cramped and built up city (Liverpool).

 

Arent most areas of USA are better equipped infrastructure and space-wise? Not to mention the Yanks 'get up and go' mentality compared to the lazy twats that take an age to do anything on time and budget over here.

 

Incredibly naive post. John Henry's personal record in sport is one of thorough excellence: as a group FSG rarely put a foot wrong, and a portrayal of them as wide eyed, swashbuckling Confederate Yanks is very far wide of the mark.

 

The process of acquiring the club was an incredibly protracted one: the club was picked up at a bargain price only assuming that it's commercial potential can be realised. FSG will know the extent to which the club needs renovation, on and off the pitch, regardless of the revival of results in the short term under Dalglish.

 

 

It doesn't make sense for a business to be in an area where the locals can't afford to pay for the product it is selling.... the new owners [will care about local Anfield fans] Just as long as they have any business sense. They want the money. If that means improving the area and creating jobs - especially ones they don't have to pay for - then so be it.

 

Define 'local'. You're implying that the majority of match attending fans are drawn from the area immediately surrounding the ground. I'd be interested in figures now. Match-going Liverpool fans are not particular to the Anfield area: the matter of Old Trafford being located in an industrial swamp has not adversely affected gates at United; if need be, FSG could source ground locations elsewhere in the City without detracting from match-day support. It would prove a lengthy process, but retaining a stadium in the Anfield area will not prove the be all / end all for their plans. The impetus is certainly not on FSG to create jobs in the immediate local area in order to provide paying support at the stadium.

 

 

Read the post from aws. Lease. They'd be our tenant.

 

A situation will never arise where Everton are the tenants of Liverpool FC.

[J-V]

Ah sound.

 

What if they default?

 

They'd play in a park.

[WaltonRed]

Did you miss this from a few pages back? If you didn't I would like to see why it didn't help you understand or where it's completely wrong.

 

Not being from Liverpool how would you know whats anfields problem? You could do it up to the standard of Buckingham Palace and it would still be a hole due to the people who live there.

 

and Numero, they dont want people who can walk the game cos they only buy a ticket, they want daytrippers from out of town who'll need feeding and will stock up in the shop.

 

Barry might be correct it that its not off the table but I still dont think it'll happen.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

and Numero, they dont want people who can walk the game cos they only buy a ticket, they want daytrippers from out of town who'll need feeding and will stock up in the shop.

 

Any business model for a large stadium - which we'd need to both pay for it and to challenge Arsenal (with their massive ticket prices) and United's gate receipts - need to attract both. You want to make it possible for locals to come on weekday/night matches and games which carry less glamour, and your also want to attract the sort of people you're talking about. It'll almost certainly be a mixed model.

 

As for your blanket statement about the residents: regeniration will encourage others to come into that part of the city. Come on, Walto, use your loaf on this.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Define 'local'. You're implying that the majority of match attending fans are drawn from the area immediately surrounding the ground.

 

I'm not implying that at all, mate. I'm saying any model for a big stadium will require the attendance of the local community, especially Monday night games against QPR or Stoke or whatever.

 

I was replying directly to a question of regeneration. If the area is regenerated and jobs are created - especially by private firms coming in - then there's potential to take money and fill the big 70k stadium that Ant was talking about.

 

It's really not that controversial.

[Yozzer]

Just give me some fucking leg room! One of the main reason I go to more away games is because at home games I end up with fucked knees by the end of the match.

[Dougie Do'ins]

I still dont get the whole re-generation thing, anfield is a shit hole area because of the council and the people, why should the club dig them out?

 

Its not the clubs fault is it.

How the fuck is the club digging them out ? You live in Walton and you don't get the regeneration thing ? You think it's a coincidence that two of the most run down areas of Liverpool just happen to within the immediate vicinity of the two grounds ? You honestly don't think LFC, regardless of who the owners were over the years had nothing to do with the state of Rockfield Road and the streets off it ? Don't forget we lost a sports center on the back of a new stadium being built.

 

Anfield just like Walton has fallen into decline over the years, just like Speak, Halewood and the docklands did. Just as the latter three areas there needs to be a catalyst to start the regeneration.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Not being from Liverpool how would you know whats anfields problem? You could do it up to the standard of Buckingham Palace and it would still be a hole due to the people who live there.

 

and Numero, they dont want people who can walk the game cos they only buy a ticket, they want daytrippers from out of town who'll need feeding and will stock up in the shop.

 

Barry might be correct it that its not off the table but I still dont think it'll happen.

 

Because from my first game in 1985/86 through to 2001 when I left Liverpool I saw it first hand and then going back home every year or so for games, visiting friends and family and such.

 

So now that my country of origin and city (Liverpool) passes your test how about you actually read and respond to what I posted?

 

Or you could just cry about how the club doesn't care about you and any other red herring to deflect the attention away from the situation.

[The Bugged Out]

How the fuck is the club digging them out ? You live in Walton and you don't get the regeneration thing ? You think it's a coincidence that two of the most run down areas of Liverpool just happen to within the immediate vicinity of the two grounds ? You honestly don't think LFC' date=' regardless of who the owners were over the years had nothing to do with the state of Rockfield Road and the streets off it ? Don't forget we lost a sports center on the back of a new stadium being built.

 

Anfield just like Walton has fallen into decline over the years, just like Speak, Halewood and the docklands did. Just as the latter three areas there needs to be a catalyst to start the regeneration.[/quote']

 

wait there, you point out the potential coincidence between football and two run down areas and then point out three areas with no connection that are also run down? well you could name three other areas in kenny, dingle and garston, then three other areas in crocky, litherland and kirkdale and still have no connection with liverpool or the the bitters.

 

At the end of the day of the majority of liverpool areas are in need of regeneration to some degree but the council/national government can't pass the buck on them. Regeneration is vital but it is also conveniently covers mismanagement by elected officials dating back years.

[Guest ShoePiss]

wait there, you point out the potential coincidence between football and two run down areas and then point out three areas with no connection that are also run down? well you could name three other areas in kenny, dingle and garston, then three other areas in crocky, litherland and kirkdale and still have no connection with liverpool or the the bitters.

 

At the end of the day of the majority of liverpool areas are in need of regeneration to some degree but the council/national government can't pass the buck on them. Regeneration is vital but it is also conveniently covers mismanagement by elected officials dating back years.

 

I don't think it is in dispute that the local council has a huge responsibility to all of those areas, it also shouldn't be disputed that the club has had a negative impact on the immediate vicinity.

 

If the club was actually an Asda, ICI or Fords and 40,000 people arrived there every other week bringing in huge amounts of extra traffic, pollution, rubbish and everything else that comes with the 'match day experience' no one would blink and eye if they were expected to help out with the impact they have but because it's the club it's special?

 

Add to that Asda bought up a large proportion of houses and then just boarded them up creating a derelict wasteland...

[The Bugged Out]

I don't think it is in dispute that the local council has a huge responsibility to all of those areas, it also shouldn't be disputed that the club has had a negative impact on the immediate vicinity.

 

If the club was actually an Asda, ICI or Fords and 40,000 people arrived there every other week bringing in huge amounts of extra traffic, pollution, rubbish and everything else that comes with the 'match day experience' no one would blink and eye if they were expected to help out with the impact they have but because it's the club it's special?

 

Add to that Asda bought up a large proportion of houses and then just boarded them up creating a derelict wasteland...

 

I think that is a fair point, and I accept that argument.

[robslappa]

Not being from Liverpool how would you know whats anfields problem? You could do it up to the standard of Buckingham Palace and it would still be a hole due to the people who live there.

 

and Numero, they dont want people who can walk the game cos they only buy a ticket, they want daytrippers from out of town who'll need feeding and will stock up in the shop.

 

Barry might be correct it that its not off the table but I still dont think it'll happen.

 

Sorry mate, you're talking through your arse.

 

God knows how many years ago, the club started buying up houses when they went on the market and then boarding them. They then sold the houses to housing associations. The council went one step further and actually went around buying houses off people and asking them to sell even when they weren't on the market. I know this 'cos they bought my Dad's house off him.

 

Anfield's not the greatest area in the world, but the state it's in now is nothing like what it was 10 or 20 years ago. The reason it's so bad now is the decision by the club and the council to buy houses from homeowners and either board them up or then subsequently sell them to housing associations who could only rent them out to the bottom end of the market. It also became almost impossible to sell a house through the normal channels because no one would buy them other than the council. The club are partly responsible for creating a ghetto along Walton Breck Road and have in my eyes got a lot to answer for as well the council.

 

By the way I still live in Anfield.

[Walton Park]

Fucking hell this is gonna end up like the Walton / Breck fights !!

 

STAAAAAND !!!!!

[robslappa]

Fucking hell this is gonna end up like the Walton / Breck fights !!

 

STAAAAAND !!!!!

 

Hahaha.

[Barrington Womble]

Ah sound.

 

What if they default?

 

that's their hard shit isn't it,. they'd go into administration.

 

 

 

A situation will never arise where Everton are the tenants of Liverpool FC.

 

what makes you so sure about that? everton know they have no other choice. their fans may not like it, but don't be fooled that their lovey owner will feel the same. he was the one who was never going to move them from woodison until tesco's offered them a free ground.