Joy Division/New Order

[King Emlyn]

Yeah deffo agree with that. I find it really hard to listen to because it always puts a downer on me. Same with Leonard Cohen's Songs Of Love And Hate. Brilliant album though, nonetheless.

 

Joy Division are one of my favourite bands. Just some unbelievable tunes. I know people are divided over his voice, but I think Curtis' vocals are fucking brilliant, as are his lyrics. Just a top band.

 

jnp, if you haven't checked it out, give Touching From A Distance a read. A fantastic biography of Curtis' life written by his widow, Debbie. Really interesting read, yet quite difficult at the same time. It really is a great book.

 

New Order did some good tunes in there day as well like, but aren't even in the same stratosphere as Joy Division. Bernard Sumner comes across as a nice fella and all, but there's no chance he's a front man.

It is hard to listen to. Good shout with Cohen too. Dead Souls is Joy Divisions masterpiece for me, albeit in a bitter-sweet way; that's when the alarm bells should have really started ringing.

[loadsoftrophies]

Saw New Oder about 3 years ago and they were shite live, during the Love will tear us apart chorus Peter Hook kept shouting 'C'mon!' and it wrecked my head.

Some great songs but time has caught up with them.

[bri]

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[paddyberger15]

Well Rob, 1 and a half out of three aint bad!! We're back to that pesky Leonard/ Hagler fight again!!! Robinson and Ali is a toss up for me.

 

Heh! That's a 10 pint discussion if I ever heard one Pablo!

We need to do it some time soon mate.

[paddyberger15]

It is hard to listen to. Good shout with Cohen too. Dead Souls is Joy Divisions masterpiece for me, albeit in a bitter-sweet way; that's when the alarm bells should have really started ringing.

 

You know, that is bang on, the alarm bells would have been ringing for me aswell. Fucking brilliant song though.

[paddyberger15]

Yeah deffo agree with that. I find it really hard to listen to because it always puts a downer on me. Same with Leonard Cohen's Songs Of Love And Hate. Brilliant album though, nonetheless.

 

Joy Division are one of my favourite bands. Just some unbelievable tunes. I know people are divided over his voice, but I think Curtis' vocals are fucking brilliant, as are his lyrics. Just a top band.

 

jnp, if you haven't checked it out, give Touching From A Distance a read. A fantastic biography of Curtis' life written by his widow, Debbie. Really interesting read, yet quite difficult at the same time. It really is a great book.

 

New Order did some good tunes in there day as well like, but aren't even in the same stratosphere as Joy Division. Bernard Sumner comes across as a nice fella and all, but there's no chance he's a front man.

 

Yep, my man Faustus is right there. Songs and lyrics were brilliant and Touching from a distance is a painful but essential read. Joy Division really were amazing. The live collectable bootleg albums are well worth getting....Dantes Inferno and Boulevard of broken dreams to name but two.

[Dirk]

Yep, my man Faustus is right there. Songs and lyrics were brilliant and Touching from a distance is a painful but essential read. Joy Division really were amazing. The live collectable bootleg albums are well worth getting....Dantes Inferno and Boulevard of broken dreams to name but two.

 

Makes for an emotional read this.

 

 

'I was just besotted'

 

Twenty five years ago Ian Curtis, lead singer of Joy Division, killed himself. His wife Deborah talks to Laura Barton about getting over him, obsessive fans and why she no longer listens to his music

 

 

The Guardian, Monday 11 April 2005

 

'If somebody kills themself they've had the last word. And what they're saying is 'There's nothing you can say, nothing you can do'. And there's nothing more frustrating than that." Deborah Curtis's voice buckles a little and her head dips, almost imperceptibly. It has been 25 years since her husband Ian, lead singer of influential post-punk band Joy Division, took his own life, aged 23. He left behind Deborah, their one-year-old daughter, Natalie, and a music career that had barely begun

 

Today Deborah sits in her lounge, on a quiet cul-de-sac just outside Crewe. She speaks quietly, matter-of-factly, punctuated with a faint bob of the head, which is small and round with well-polished cheeks. And when she has finished speaking she sits on the edge of the sofa, neat and still. Like a little apple.

 

Deborah and Ian grew up in Macclesfield at a time when the town was "full of people trying to stand out from the crowd". Ian was already something of a local cult figure, a lanky Lou Reed fan who wore a pink blazer to school and took drugs. Deborah, a Creedence Clearwater fan who made her own clothes, was in awe of him, his record collection and the fact he wrote poetry. In Deborah, Ian seemed to see a project. "I think the fact I didn't stand out was an attraction for him," she admits. "I think he thought I would be easy to mould, to control. He liked to have an input on what I was reading and what music I listened to." Though Deborah herself was writing poetry at the time, Ian was very much the focus of the relationship. "I don't remember him ever asking to see what I was writing. That's partly my own fault - I stopped writing after we got married. But I think he was so powerful that our lives were sort of centred around his art, and what he was going to do."

 

By her own admission, Deborah's devotion to Ian, her willingness to conform to his stringent behavioural code, was extreme. Even in the early days of their courtship he would, for example, insist that she spent her lunch break at his parents' house. "It was ridiculous! I only had an hour for lunch and it would've been 15 minutes' walk to his parents' house and 15 minutes back, and it sort of shortened my lunch hour." She gives a birdish little laugh. "And I gave up my studies ridiculously readily. It was pathetic. You know, he said, 'Leave school, you won't need your A-levels, you won't need a job. You won't have to work, I'm going to make so much money, we're going to have a great life together, just leave school and then we can get married and then we can start - start our life, really." She pauses, her hands folded in her lap, and sits very still. "Looking back on it now I think, 'What were you doing? What were you thinking of?'"

 

And what were you thinking of, I ask. "I don't know." She says it forcefully, but her voice snags, and ladders like a stocking. "I was just totally besotted."

 

Her friends drifted off, and her family said nothing about her behaviour or her relationship with Ian. Have they since? She smiles ruefully. "Yes. We laugh about it now. I mean, you've got to. It's such a long time ago, you can't be upset about it, you have to laugh." What, one wonders, would she do if that were her daughter? "I'd hit the roof," she laughs. "I'd go apeshit."

 

The couple married in 1975, when Deborah was 18 and Ian, 19, and Natalie was born four years later, just as Joy Division were taking off in earnest. But there were also financial worries, along with the difficulty of combining a rock'n'roll life with a stable marriage, Ian's epilepsy, his mood swings and depression. By that autumn, Ian had begun an affair with a Belgian Siouxsie Sioux look alike named Annik Honore, and, at the time of his suicide on May 18 1980, Ian and Deborah had been scuttling back and forth between divorce and reconciliation.

 

Why does she think he didn't just leave? "I don't know," she says, and again it holds a tremble. "Maybe he was concerned about doing the right thing. Maybe he was torn between what he should do and what he wanted to do. Maybe Annik wasn't the one, but he felt he needed to go. I don't know. I've spent a lot of time wondering, because there were so many other things he could've done besides commit suicide."

 

Did she feel angry with him for taking his own life? "Mmm, very," she says. And does she still? "No, no I don't feel angry now. There's too much time passed. You have to think about how unhappy he must've been and he must have honestly not been able to see a way out or he wouldn't have done it." When, one wonders, did that anger start to subside? "Last week!" she laughs. "No, it was quite late on. It's not that long ago." Do you still love him, I ask. "Um ... yes," she says softly. "But, y'know, not in the same way. I've got a new partner now. Meeting him was a turning point, because he'd not heard of Joy Division, he didn't know who Ian Curtis was."

 

She put all Ian's records away some years ago, and doesn't often listen to Joy Division these days. "Because Ian taught me that if you put a piece of music on you sit down and listen to it," she explains. "You don't get up and do the washing-up or anything. You listen to it. So that's what I tend to do. And I can't put Joy Division on and not listen to it the whole way through. And," she adds, gently, "you end up putting yourself in the past when you should be getting on with now."

 

With the years has come a mettled defiance, a sort of crisp-cored boldness. "He used to get annoyed with me if I was reading books that he didn't like. So I always think about him when I'm reading a book. And when I'm interviewed sometimes I think, 'I bet you wouldn't like that would you?'" She gives a brief conspiratorial smile across the carpet. "And I've got a lot of makeup on today, because of the photographs. And he didn't like me wearing makeup. And sometimes when I put my makeup on I think yeah ... you know, it's all right for him to say that then, but this is now."

 

This year has also seen the republication of her book about her life with Ian, written in part as a sort of two fingers to all the gossipmongers who tittle-tattled about their "marital problems", to all the people who thought they knew Ian through his music, and to whom Deborah had become almost a figure of resentment. "I saw a review on Amazon once, somebody had written, 'She doesn't understand her subject'. And I thought, 'Well, surely that's the point?'" She sighs.

 

And did Ian know her? "I think he thought he did." But do you think he did? She smiles in the stillness of her lounge. "No," she says distantly. "No, I don't think he did."

 

· Touching From a Distance: Ian Curtis and Joy Division by Deborah Curtis is published by Faber

 

'I was just besotted' | Music | The Guardian

[Closer To God]

Just ordered this one:

Love it, think it's boss.

[paddyberger15]

Just re-reading this thread now....and I was right King Em, Leonard did beat Hagler, I must have watched that fight another 30 times since that post and Ray won the fight. Robinson was better than Ali and Joy Division are still the greatest band of all time.

[King Emlyn]

Just re-reading this thread now....and I was right King Em, Leonard did beat Hagler, I must have watched that fight another 30 times since that post and Ray won the fight. Robinson was better than Ali and Joy Division are still the greatest band of all time.

We'll discuss it over those ten pints one day Rob.

[cochyn]

True story: My old band supported Joy Division in Leeds*.

 

*When I say Joy Division, I mean 10,000 Things. Who were fronted at the time by the actor who played Ian Curtis in 'Control'. When I say 'supported', I mean we were the jammy fucks who got to do our shit before they played their homecoming at The Primrose, Woodhouse.

[Sugar Ape]

Been listening to Low-life a lot lately, great album. Love Vigilantes in particular is a great tune.

[johnsusername]

I think New Order are the second best band England has produced after The Beatles. Just my opinion, of course.

 

 

[johnsusername]

On 25/03/2010 at 22:35, mgw100 said:

For example, if you listen to LCD Soundsystem now, they blow New Order out of the water

Jesus. I always wonder how wrong people can be. 

[cloggypop]

New Order are a fantastic band. Last album was surprisingly good. 

 

Dutch mates of mine are just back from France after seeing them. Reckon they are still boss. 

 

Apparently, they aren't using sequencers so much now. Practically everything is played live now. One way of keeping it still interesting for the band. I like that. 

[Tony Moanero]

9 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

New Order are a fantastic band. Last album was surprisingly good. 

 

Dutch mates of mine are just back from France after seeing them. Reckon they are still boss. 

 

Apparently, they aren't using sequencers so much now. Practically everything is played live now. One way of keeping it still interesting for the band. I like that. 

I love New Order and have seen them live a few times, but don’t think I’d do so again. In my opinion, Bernard Sumner’s voice just isn’t up to it.

[cloggypop]

2 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

I love New Order and have seen them live a few times, but don’t think I’d do so again. In my opinion, Bernard Sumner’s voice just isn’t up to it.

He never had the strongest voice. There's a reason why he was the guitarist. 

 

Saw Peter Hook & the Light a while back and he shouldn't be singing. Had his lad playing bass with him on vocals and yeah. 

 

Shame him and the rest of them don't get on these days. He's a boss bass player. 

[Tony Moanero]

3 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

He never had the strongest voice. There's a reason why he was the guitarist. 

 

Saw Peter Hook & the Light a while back and he shouldn't be singing. Had his lad playing bass with him on vocals and yeah. 

 

Shame him and the rest of them don't get on these days. He's a boss bass player. 

Yep, comes across as a total knob though.

[cloggypop]

Just now, Tony Moanero said:

Yep, comes across as a total knob though.

This is a decent read like

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002SW8XYS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&amp;btkr=1

[cloggypop]

Remember seeing him once with Pete Wylie in the Black Horse & Rainbow of all places. 

[cloggypop]

And talking about the Black Horse and Rainbow, I also met these weird fuckers in there

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/film-bizarre-southport-sockmen-tale-10367436

 

Anyone remember these blerts? 

[cloggypop]

I went home with both socks by the way. 

[johnsusername]

Sumner's voice was always suited to the studio - he's actually got one of the most distinctive voices in rock. I love his performance in the Perfect Kiss video. 

 

They were always patchy live - but when it came together they were brilliant. 

[Captain Howdy]

1 hour ago, johnsusername said:

Jesus. I always wonder how wrong people can be. 

LCD are better than New Order for me, Joy Division better than both 

[cloggypop]

15 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

LCD are better than New Order for me, Joy Division better than both 

Start an LCD Soundsystem thread then. I've seen them and they are indeed a very good band. 

 

This thread is for Joy Division /New Order/ Warsaw and weirdo sock perverts.