Israel - A Rant

[Strontium]

What cigarette paper are you putting between the treatment of protesters by the Venezuelan government and the treatment of protestors by the Israeli government here?

None, thanks for noticing that I've been the only person on this forum to condemn, let alone mention, both.

[Strontium]

Dead innocents at the hands of your beloved Israel. Obviously

Describing Hamas terrorists as innocents is hardly accurate, and nor is describing Israel as "beloved" by me. How many times do you want me to condemn the level of their reaction? This is the fourth or fifth time in this thread alone.

[Jose Jones]

Describing Hamas terrorists as innocents is hardly accurate, and nor is describing Israel as "beloved" by me. How many times do you want me to condemn the level of their reaction? This is the fourth or fifth time in this thread alone.

You haven’t done it once matey.

[Section_31]

The whataboutery from the Israeli side when talking about Hammas is quite bizarre. One side is lobbing stones and petrol bombs and the other is a nuclear power which has F16s, a military and an infamous intelligence apparatus.

 

Imagine if that fit bird from Sin Fein dragged some civilian protesters down to the town hall in Belfast and 50-odd got killed and 2,000 injured including women and kids.

[Strontium]

You haven’t done it once matey.

Indeed, as I said, that was the fourth or fifth time I had condemned their excessive response in this thread (fourth, as it happens).

 

I think the one thing Israel could never be accused of doing is taking proportionate action.

I condemn the excessive use of force whenever it is used.

Everyone seems to think I'm absolving Israel of their gross over-reaction.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

7 journalists and a Candian doctor, Tarek Loubani, shot and injured yesterday.

 

It's almost as if the IDF murderers are just shooting into the crowd indiscriminately, rather than targeting "Hamas terrorists." Who'da thunk it?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Musa Abuhassanin, a paramedic in high visibility clothing, was treating a gunshot victim with a leg injury when he was shot in the thorax and killed/murdered.

 

But, remember, "Hamas terrorists" y'all.

[Strontium]

Solving two problems at once, what to do with Boris's water cannons and massively reducing the number of deaths.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-why-is-israel-using-lethal-force-against-the-protestors-of-gaza-1.6092579

 

 

When most Americans look back on how police dealt with civil rights protesters in the 1960s, particularly African-Americans, it’s with a wince and a degree of shame. Water cannons turned on demonstrators were a degrading and painful way to beat back crowds. The blunt force of the water sometimes caused facial fractures, lost eyes and forced falls that led to other injuries.

 

But rarely death.

 

Perhaps the Israel Defense Forces ought to give it a try as a tool of crowd control. After all, spraying a few thousand protesters on the Gaza border with water might knock down dozens of angry young men, douse tire fires, and cause a concussion or two, but it wouldn’t cause 60 deaths in one day.

 

In many countries from Chile to India, water cannons are a standard tool for non-lethal crowd control, sometimes used with colored water used to "tag" participants for later prosecution.

 

There are a myriad of other methods of riot containment that are used worldwide and generally don’t result in scores of deaths. Why the Israeli army hasn’t employed them up to now is a troubling moral question.

 

It’s simply unacceptable that the same Israel that prides itself on innovation and ingenuity - cannot find a better way to stop thousands of Gazans threatening to overrun the border than to open fire on them with live ammunition.

[Jose Jones]

Strontium Dog, on 16 May 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

 

Indeed, as I said, that was the fourth or fifth time I had condemned their excessive response in this thread (fourth, as it happens).

 

Not one of those is specifically commenting on Israel's actions in this case though. All generalisms and mostly couched with whataboutery.

[Anubis]

This is how utterly fucked up the IDF are. At first glance I thought it was a parody account, but no, it's an official verified account.

 

https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/996427205944184832?s=19

 

I think they missed off kittens and kiddie bikes. We all know how IDF scum like to murder little kids' bikes.

[Strontium]

Not one of those is specifically commenting on Israel's actions in this case though. All generalisms and mostly couched with whataboutery.

I condemned the use of excessive force in general terms (albeit, this is an Israel thread, so, you know) but I referred to their actions specifically as disproportionate and an over-reaction. Always happy to condemn Israel's excessive use of violence, but if you're expecting me to become a cheerleader for Hamas, you'll be waiting a long time.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I condemned the use of excessive force in general terms (albeit, this is an Israel thread, so, you know) but I referred to their actions specifically as disproportionate and an over-reaction. Always happy to condemn Israel's excessive use of violence, but if you're expecting me to become a cheerleader for Hamas, you'll be waiting a long time.

Stop pretending to be as stupid as those New Labour warmongers in 2002/03 who tried to dismiss opponents of Bush and Blair's crimes by claiming that they were somehow supporters of Saddam.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The Board of Deputies trying to exonerate Israel and blame Hamas.

 

https://twitter.com/BoardofDeputies/status/996386432376885248?s=09

 

A few weeks ago, anybody suggesting that these cunts represent Israel more than they represent British Jews would be burned at the stake for being an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Excellent interview by a human rights lawyer on CBS.

 

[Grinch]

Hamas clearly.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

A truly astounding interview with the vile Mark Regev.

 

Reports of a 12 year old boy being shot in the head and injured whilst driving in his father's car and being 500 metres away from the border fence.

 

Regev, rightly, says that facts need to be established first. But, then appears to try and justify the incident by claiming that the boy's father was an "activist for the Hamas struggle."

 

Wow! Just....wow! Firstly, what does that even mean? Not a member of Hamas, but an "activist for the Hamas struggle?" That sounds like a broad, catch all category and sounds like the Israeli murder machine are suggesting that every single demonstrator is in someway a legitimate IDF target.

 

Secondly, what of the father's political leanings? Why mention them at all when asked about the alleged shooting of a child? Is Regev somehow trying to suggest that the actions of the father somehow justify or excuse the shooting of the child? Has he pretty much just advocated collective punishment on live TV?

 

What a hideous country Israel has become. Their obsession with atrocities of the past and their hiding behind their right of defence to justify murder has caused most of the nation to completely lose any sort of moral compass.

 

Poor Jon Snow too. He's criticised Israel on TV again. The lobby groups will be writing up the antisemitism accusations as we speak.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155927699311939&id=6622931938

[Trevorjc]

When your a dead Palestinian martyr but your nose keeps twitching

 https://twitter.com/_p4z_/status/996648794149326848

 

Not saying Israel are right but there's two sides to every story.

[BenR_]

Well, this will go down well here. Apparently some Hamas official told Palestinian media that 50 of the dead were their people.

 

Not such a cut and dry massacre after all

 

https://twitter.com/bjoernstritzel/status/996745896040771585

 

 

[Strontium]

I don't think any serious commentators bought the "unarmed civilians" line. Of course, that doesn't mean they should have been shot.

[moof]

I don't think any serious commentators bought the "unarmed civilians" line. Of course, that doesn't mean they should have been shot.

No, they were armed with kites, children and a rope tied to a fence. Or, “weapons of terror” according to the IDF

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Well, this will go down well here. Apparently some Hamas official told Palestinian media that 50 of the dead were their people.

 

Not such a cut and dry massacre after all

 

https://twitter.com/bjoernstritzel/status/996745896040771585

It goes down fine with me.

 

"Their people" is quite vague, no? That could mean they are from any section of the Hamas structure and the phraseology doesn't in any way lead to a conclusion that they were AK47 carrying members of the al-Qassam Brigades.

 

Might be those loosely termed "activists" that the Israeli Goebbels, Mark Regev, was on about?

 

It definitely still looks a bit massacrey to me.

[ZonkoVille77]

Well, this will go down well here. Apparently some Hamas official told Palestinian media that 50 of the dead were their people.

 

Not such a cut and dry massacre after all

 

https://twitter.com/bjoernstritzel/status/996745896040771585

"their people" - meaning nationally Palestinian.

[moof]

That fella seems to be a spokesperson for the Israeli authorities, I would question the veracity of this news.

[BenR_]

No, their people as in members of Hamas. No idea what their exact roles were, the journo posted that 13 were already confirmed security\armed forces. Doubt anyone associated with Hamas came there to plant flowers but hey, what do I know, I prefer to assume nothing which is why this thread is so confusing to me.

 

Seems to me there's already more evidence to suggest a large portion of the dead had it coming than there is to suggest it's just mindless slaughter of civilians for no reason at all. But I do get this opinion isn't the most popular and I'm just here for the footy, so maybe I'll quietly slip away now...

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

No, their people as in members of Hamas. No idea what their exact roles were, the journo posted that 13 were already confirmed security\armed forces. Doubt anyone associated with Hamas came there to plant flowers but hey, what do I know, I prefer to assume nothing which is why this thread is so confusing to me.

 

Seems to me there's already more evidence to suggest a large portion of the dead had it coming than there is to suggest it's just mindless slaughter of civilians for no reason at all. But I do get this opinion isn't the most popular and I'm just here for the footy, so maybe I'll quietly slip away now...

Wowsers!