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Israel - A Rant

Rashid

By Rashid,
in GF - General Forum

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Section_31
Section_31

You wait for one picture of a bus stop to come along and then three come along at the same time.

Biscao
Biscao

Hopefully there won’t be much left of Gaza in a few weeks time.

TD_LFC
TD_LFC

It's always non-western people who are asked to act as spokespersons for the acts of people with no direct link to them.   Islamic fundamentalist goes on a killing spree, the Muslim communit

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Strontium Grand Master

Strontium

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What's the twist?

 

Also, what terrorist Actions did he take part in and when?

The bit where Islamic Jihad confirmed that he was one of their members all along.

 

I've no idea what terrorist actions he partook in. Israel claimed he planted an explosive that injured a soldier, and he denied it. But since he denied being a member of PIJ, and that was a lie, we should probably treat any other denials with scepticism too.

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Numero Veinticinco Grand Master

Numero Veinticinco

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The bit where Islamic Jihad confirmed that he was one of their members all along.

 

I've no idea what terrorist actions he partook in. Israel claimed he planted an explosive that injured a soldier, and he denied it. But since he denied being a member of PIJ, and that was a lie, we should probably treat any other denials with scepticism too.

A lie? I never thought id hear you require so little proof, but ifyou ae comfortable taking the word of one PIJ member, thats up to you. I require proof of crimes before long term detention. All we have proof of is Israel's inhumane, illegal detention of a man with no evidence against him. I would also suggest that Israel's record of truth telling means we might also be a little bit sceptical of them. We know, for a fact, that Israel is a terrorist state. Yet your posts show a clear and evident bias in favour of them. The way you frame things makes it obvious. There is a big difference between how you reacted to that and how you would react if it was a PIJ member saying simething about a LIb Dem. Im just aaking you to check your bias. You often claim to be objective, but the way ou act on certain subjects demonstrates somehing quite different.

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Strontium Grand Master

Strontium

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A lie? I never thought id hear you require so little proof, but ifyou ae comfortable taking the word of one PIJ member, thats up to you.

It's a bit more than the word of one member of Islamic Jihad, isn't it. Israel said he was a member of PIJ. The PIJ, who threw a welcome home party for him, said he was a member of PIJ. And Sarsak himself told the Israeli Suprememe Court that he had connections to PIJ. So let's not pretend that I am merely choosing to believe the words of one person. What I am doing is examining the entirety of the evidence, and coming to a conclusion based on probability, as I always do.

 

 

I require proof of crimes before long term detention.

Just to be clear, I don't agree with detention without trial either. So much so that I didn't once vote for the government who were complicit in the extraordinary rendition of British citizens to Guantanamo Bay, something I'm sure many here can't say.

 

My point here isn't to defend detention without trial, but to alter the narrative from the nonsensical claim that Israel imprisons Palestinian footballers for shits and giggles like some pantomime villain, towards the truth, which is that Israel detains people it reasonably believes to be involved in acts of violence against its citizens.

 

All we have proof of is Israel's inhumane, illegal detention of a man with no evidence against him. I would also suggest that Israel's record of truth telling means we might also be a little bit sceptical of them. We know, for a fact, that Israel is a terrorist state. Yet your posts show a clear and evident bias in favour of them. The way you frame things makes it obvious. There is a big difference between how you reacted to that and how you would react if it was a PIJ member saying simething about a LIb Dem. Im just aaking you to check your bias. You often claim to be objective, but the way ou act on certain subjects demonstrates somehing quite different.

I'm not aware of the PIJ making any claims about any Liberal Democrat, but if they did, I would examine those claims objectively, like I would any other claim. As you're probably aware, we already have at least one confessed former Islamic extremist among our number.

 

I hope my posts show a clear and evident bias not in favour of any single actor, but towards those ever presents: truth, liberty, human rights and democracy.

 

Out of interest, what do you think Islamic Jihad would do if they caught someone they reasonably believed to be involved in working for Israel? My objective belief is that it would involve something more severe than imprisonment.

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Stickman Grand Master

Stickman

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I see medics treating injured civilians are legitimate targets for Israeli snipers now.

 

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/palestinian-nurse-shot-dead-israeli-forces-gaza-1701222793

The IDF - a great bunch of lads.

 

 

Mark Regev proving yet again what an odious horrible cunt he is

 

 

oMruEtsi_bigger.jpg 

 

@MarkRegev 16h16 hours ago

 
 

Does the death of this “medical volunteer” really constitute a “tragic reminder of the outrageous and indiscriminate brutality meted out” by #Israel’s army? No. In fact, it is yet another reminder of #Hamas’ brutality.

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Nelly-Szoboszlai Grand Master

Nelly-Szoboszlai

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Regarding the young nurse killed, it's nice to see Israel show remorse for their unnecessary barbarity rather than engage in an attempt to denigrate the victim and imply that it was all her own fault by twisting her words in a heavily edited video.

 

Or something like that....

 

Vile scum.

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-medic-rouzan-al-najjar.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

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Strontium Grand Master

Strontium

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John Simpson just Tweeted this:

 

"New bill in Israeli Knesset would criminalize the photographing or recording of Israeli soldiers while on duty. Supported by defence minister Avigdor Lieberman. If passed, will carry max penalty of 5 years' gaol."

Interesting article about this.

 

The brief but exciting life of the bill to outlaw filming IDF soldiers

What the tortuous path of one small piece of legislation – and the commotion it caused – reveals about Israel’s hollowed-out politics

by Haviv Rettig Gur

 

4 July 2018, 1:58 pm

 

On the afternoon of Friday, June 15, the New Israel Fund sent out a worried alert to the media.

 

The email’s first line spoke in no uncertain terms: “Tyrants Restrict the Rights of People to Record What Happens Around Them; Democracies Don’t.”

 

It explained: “Israel’s Cabinet is expected to vote on a bill on Sunday which calls for up to 10-year jail terms for anyone who distributes video or audio footage of IDF Soldiers. Once the bill is approved by the Cabinet it is guaranteed a majority in Knesset votes.”

 

CEO Daniel Sokatch provided journalists with a ready-made quote: “In Israel, as elsewhere in the world, video footage of police and military activity has become an important tool for human rights groups and the media. It’s part of how citizens can blow the whistle on wrongdoing by authorities. We’ve seen that from Abu Ghraib to the case of Philando Castile. Tyrants restrict the rights of people to record what happens around them; democracies don’t.”

 

Sokatch wasn’t the only one to notice this worrying development. In Haaretz’s Sunday, June 17, edition, columnist Gideon Levy took a stand, vowing “not to stop filming, not to stop writing.”

 

He didn’t stop. “We will violate this law proudly, we must violate it… Well-proposed, MK Robert Ilatov, you democrat from that famous party of liberty Yisrael Beytenu. Your bill shows just how much the IDF has to hide, to be ashamed of, to cover for.”

 

Later that Sunday, the cabinet’s Ministerial Committee for Legislation did indeed vote to advance the bill on to the Knesset.

 

Yisrael Beytenu chief Avigdor Liberman, the defense minister, didn’t hesitate for a moment. He tweeted triumphantly, “I want to praise the Ministerial Committee for Legislation for approving Yisrael Beytenu’s bill to outlaw filming of the security forces for the purpose of slandering them. IDF soldiers face a homegrown assault from those who hate Israel and support terror, and who seek ways to humiliate and hurt them. We’re putting an end to it!”

 

That evening, Israel’s Keshet television network hosted a debate between B’Tselem CEO Hagai El-Ad and Jewish Home MK Motti Yogev, a former IDF colonel who once remarked in the Knesset plenum that the Supreme Court should be demolished with a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer.

 

El-Ad dutifully delivered B’Tselem’s line: “It’s simple. If you don’t want to see pictures of soldiers dragging an 8-year-old boy in Hebron, pull the soldiers out of Hebron.”

 

And Yogev held up his part of the arrangement, insisting in response that the Palestinians like occupation; that Palestinians he speaks to in the West Bank are “happy with Israel’s rule,” want it to remain and even fear losing it.

 

And, indeed, on the morning of Wednesday, June 20, the Knesset held the preliminary vote on the legislation, the first of four votes required to pass a private member bill, narrowly advancing it by a vote of 45-42.

 

In the debate in the Knesset plenum ahead of the vote, Ilatov explained that “anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian groups like B’Tselem and Machsom Watch and Breaking the Silence and various BDS organizations” were filming IDF soldiers in order to “slander them” and “undermine their morale.”

 

“I have no intention of limiting free expression,” Ilatov assured fellow lawmakers, but added the caveat that “free expression doesn’t mean anarchy.”

 

It all seems clear: Israel’s cabinet approved a bill that was “guaranteed a majority in Knesset votes,” as the NIF had it, that will throw human rights activists into prison for a decade if they dare to film IDF soldiers committing abuses in the West Bank. B’Tselem and the New Israel Fund said so, Liberman and Ilatov confirmed it, the Knesset even voted in favor. Any right-thinking believer in democracy should be incensed and horrified.

 

There’s only one problem: None of it is true.

 

The bill was fake from the start, the cabinet committee that “approved” the bill actually killed it, the preliminary vote was an agreed-upon fiction, Liberman’s gloating was a lie and the left-wing activists’ pearl-clutching was a demonstration of either a similar dishonesty or, worse, ignorance.

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