Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Numero Veinticinco]

You sound surprised.

I'm not sure there are many competent MPs, much less competent Labour MPs.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Probably a few constituents twitchy that their long serving and competent MP is at risk. Fuck that though hey.

Not arsed. Concentrate on what the Tories are doing. Your opinion is irrelevant.

[Stickman]

A few recent whispers that a vote for adopting mandatory reselection might pass at the upcoming Labour Conference in September, after Unite hinted that they might give their backing.

 

There'll potentially be a few MP's with very twitchy bumholes in the not too distant future.

 

 

Coming to a cinema in your constituency soon

 

[Boss]

Any approach to Brexit that doesn't address the concerns of half the population is morally wrong, anti-democratic and a guarantee of chaos.

 

Let's flip this around for a second. If Remain won by 52% of the vote, would you want Britain to re-jig their membership of the EU to address the concerns of the 48% that voted against? ie free movement of people, sovereignty and all the other reasons people voted to leave? I highly doubt you would. I think the Remainers would've ridiculed the leave voters for losing and just carried on as normal. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Let's flip this around for a second. If Remain won by 52% of the vote, would you want Britain to re-jig their membership of the EU to address the concerns of the 48% that voted against? ie free movement of people, sovereignty and all the other reasons people voted to leave? I highly doubt you would. I think the Remainers would've ridiculed the leave voters for losing and just carried on as normal.

I think it would have been quite a wake up to the politicians that many have that concern.

[Rico1304]

I'm not sure there are many competent MPs, much less competent Labour MPs.

I had Ann Coffey as my MP for a number of years, she was very good. Goes to show the mentality of NT though that he’s not twigged would want a competent MP even if you didn’t vote for them.

[Anny Road]

Rico I think you need to decide between socialism and selfishness. There is a fundamental difference.

[Strontium]

When the "right wing" of the party was in the driving seat, I don't remember many calls for the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott etc to be deselected as MPs.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I had Ann Coffey as my MP for a number of years, she was very good. Goes to show the mentality of NT though that he’s not twigged would want a competent MP even if you didn’t vote for them.

I've made no such statement, Sherro. I've merely said that mandatory reselection might be introduced. And it might cause nervousness amongst MP's. I've remained silent as to whether it's a good thing or not.

[Numero Veinticinco]

When the "right wing" of the party was in the driving seat, I don't remember many calls for the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott etc to be deselected as MPs.

Then you weren't paying attention. In fact, it's funny you mention those names because those were three of the main six who actually were named. Happy to back up if needed.

 

Edit:

 

A senior Labour figure cited the names of six MPs who could expect to be asked to make a vow of loyalty before the NEC as the price for having their candidacy endorsed.

They are Bob Marshall-Andrews, who has voted against the party whip 51 times since the 2001 election; John McDonnell, with 79 votes against; Jeremy Corbyn, 87; Lynne Jones, 57; Diane Abbott 36; and Mike Wood, 25.

All apart from Mr Wood defied the Government last night.

Labour insiders say there would be little opposition inside the NEC to deselecting a hard core of arch rebels, even from members representing unions and Left-wing MPs such as Dennis Skinner, who see the need for loyalty.

 

 

Source

[The Guest]

Mandatory reselection would revolutionise politics here. If standing MP’s have been so good they’ve got nothing to worry about. If voters are so worried about them they can join the Labour Party and vote for them like everybody else. Much better to be democratic at every opportunity rather than skip over the bits you don’t like to keep MP’s of a leaning you prefer.

[Section_31]

Mandatory reselection would revolutionise politics here. If standing MP’s have been so good they’ve got nothing to worry about. If voters are so worried about them they can join the Labour Party and vote for them like everybody else. Much better to be democratic at every opportunity rather than skip over the bits you don’t like to keep MP’s of a leaning you prefer.

 

The only problem I have with that is a lot of people are spastics. Gather any group of people in a room who claim to be 'into politics' and they'll all have their own reasons for wanting rid of a candidate, from something they didn't do personally for their nan, to the team  they support.

[Strontium]

Then you weren't paying attention. In fact, it's funny you mention those names because those were three of the main six who actually were named. Happy to back up if needed.

Yeah, but scare stories in the Telegraph aside, that didn't actually happen, did it?

[Numero Veinticinco]

Yeah, but scare stories in the Telegraph aside, that didn't actually happen, did it?

What does that have to do with the post about rumours or your post about 'calls' for deselection? They weren't deselected, but that's not the point. It was an oft-used tactic by Blair and his henchmen. So your memory is faulty.

[Strontium]

What does that have to do with the post about rumours or your post about 'calls' for deselection? They weren't deselected, but that's not the point. It was an oft-used tactic by Blair and his henchmen. So your memory is faulty.

What I mean was, it was a shot across the bows, sure, but none of those guys were actually deselected, even when they were calling the leader a war criminal. It was an empty threat. Very different to what we have now I think.

[Numero Veinticinco]

What I mean was, it was a shot across the bows, sure, but none of those guys were actually deselected, even when they were calling the leader a war criminal. It was an empty threat. Very different to what we have now I think.

I don't think we have anything now, just a rumour. Do you not remember how Blair, Brown and Campbell would deal with some of these people? They were pretty savage. I also don't think it was an empty threat, they were brought to heal for the most part. Either that or they got kicked out, like Galloway.

 

I'm not sure what I think about these rumours. I've not really heard much. It Is hard to compare, my objection is to the pass given to some of the less palatable members of days gone by.

[sir roger]

Not only did they try to get rid of Corbyn, Abbott & other lefties , more importantly they made it almost impossible for anybody who didn't kiss Blair's ring to become an mp. This is why the left-leaning Labour mp's are usually either from the ancient order or relative youngsters and their numbers were so low that they needed patronising arseholes like Field to slip up and open the way for Corbyn to get on the original ballot.

 

As with MR , let's hope it gets voted through & the party can look for fresh faces who will look to make Progress & put Labour First.

[The Guest]

The only problem I have with that is a lot of people are spastics. Gather any group of people in a room who claim to be 'into politics' and they'll all have their own reasons for wanting rid of a candidate, from something they didn't do personally for their nan, to the team they support.

Isn’t that democracy though? What’s the alternative? Having candidates forced on you by some hidden men in suits got the party and the country in the state it’s currently in. If politicians felt more accountable and had the chance of losing their ticket on the gravy train instead of just sat in safe seats for their career because they were mates with the right people then maybe we would get genuine change that is needed. At the moment most MPs jut pay lip service to everything whilst sorting themselves out. It needs to end and mandatory reselection would do that.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I have. It's not. Clumsy. Yes. Anrisemitic? Not a chance. Not under the IHRA definition.

 

Feel free to withdraw your baseless allegation whenever you see fit.

From the IHRA document.

 

"It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits...

 

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

... Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such"

 

Labour's Code of Conduct adopts this and also adds reference to the Chakrabarti Report recommendation on Stereotyping.

"I recommend that racial or religious tropes and stereotypes about any group of people should have no place in our modern Labour Party."

 

So, yeah, what you posted was anti-Semitic as fuck.  If you're a member of the Labour Party, you want your arse kicking for that.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Probably a few constituents twitchy that their long serving and competent MP is at risk. Fuck that though hey.

The competent ones will be fine.

 

The ones who spend their time openly working against the party, instead of working for their constituents, will be deservedly fucked off and replaced by someone better.

 

(To give a couple of Liverpool examples of New Labour MPs, Stephen Twigg is quietly competent and reliable, so he can sleep easy; Louise Ellman is a twat, so she should start looking at an exit strategy.)

[Rico1304]

The competent ones will be fine.

 

The ones who spend their time openly working against the party, instead of working for their constituents, will be deservedly fucked off and replaced by someone better.

 

(To give a couple of Liverpool examples of New Labour MPs, Stephen Twigg is quietly competent and reliable, so he can sleep easy; Louise Ellman is a twat, so she should start looking at an exit strategy.)

So you’re making the decision on behalf of the constituents? I get confused between when and how you can decide what’s good for people.

 

If i get it right it’s;

 

- not for Muslim women as I’m a white man

- can decide what and what isn’t anti Semitism (despite being the same white man)

- for a myriad of different labour voters in constituencies I’ve never visited.

 

 

No wonder I find it hard to keep up with you intellectual heavyweights.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Let's flip this around for a second. If Remain won by 52% of the vote, would you want Britain to re-jig their membership of the EU to address the concerns of the 48% that voted against? ie free movement of people, sovereignty and all the other reasons people voted to leave? I highly doubt you would. I think the Remainers would've ridiculed the leave voters for losing and just carried on as normal. 

I've always been in favour of reforming the EU, to turn it away from its destructive, neoliberal direction.

 

One of the problems with the reasons people voted to leave is that so many of them were false or grossly exaggerated:

  -  EU immigration doesn't cost jobs, force wages down or put public services and housing under stress (it's UK Government policies that do all that);

  -  the UK has not surrendered sovereignty to the degree people think it has.  The UK's influence in the EU has long been downplayed, as has the ability of Member States to support their own industries (e.g. nationalised railways; Italian steel vs Port Talbot steel; etc.) if the Government can be arsed;

  -  the extent, influence and "foreignness" of EU laws are nothing like what people have been consistently told through decades of bullshit stories of straight bananas, vegelate and conker bans.

 

I don't know how to address false concerns, other than tell the truth (and I don't think that would ever be enough).

 

Addressing the conditions which led to the Brexit vote - a widespread distrust of all levels of government (national and supra-national) and a Gnasher-like urge to give the people in power a bloody nose - would mean doing something to overhaul our economy and our political system to make it work for people.  I'd deffo support that, regardless of the Referendum result.

[Anubis]

It's simple. Labour is a political party made up of its members. If the changes go through the members will choose who to put forward to the electorate as candidates in the election.

 

Other parties will also have candidates to put forward.

 

The electorate, in any given area, can then choose the candidate they wish to vote for.

 

The idea that constituents who are not party members should choose candidates of parties they are not members of is illogical.

 

Did the constituents of Stoke Central get a say when potential local Labour candidates were ignored and the thoroughly useless Tristram Hunt was parachuted in as the Labour candidate in 2010. No, they did not.

 

So I fail to see what the issue is.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

When the "right wing" of the party was in the driving seat, I don't remember many calls for the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott etc to be deselected as MPs.

Do you remember them trying to overthrow the leadership of the party?  Or spreading lies and slander about the entire party membership?

 

If they had done that, then maybe they should have been subject to mandatory reselection.  (Note: mandatory reselection by the CLP is a far more democratic process than deselection by the NEC.)

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

From the IHRA document.

 

"It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits...

 

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

... Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such"

 

Labour's Code of Conduct adopts this and also adds reference to the Chakrabarti Report recommendation on Stereotyping.

"I recommend that racial or religious tropes and stereotypes about any group of people should have no place in our modern Labour Party."

 

So, yeah, what you posted was anti-Semitic as fuck. If you're a member of the Labour Party, you want your arse kicking for that.

Oh, bore off.

 

I didn't make the stereotype. I quoted it. Plus, as the person who I referred it to often makes stereotypical comments about all manner of things, religions etc and has himself made jokey comments about the gassing of Jews, I thought he possesed the customary phlegm to not be offended by the very type of posts he makes himself about religions and other issues that may cause contention.

 

I apologise if I misread the signals re: acceptable conduct that he himself sent out.