Jordan Henderson, MBE: World Club Cup, European Cup, European Super Cup, Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup & Charity Shield Winning Captain of Liverpool (and massive sellout)

[Dave D]

52 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I'm not sure where the line is drawn with all this. We all interact with PIF every day. They've got their fingers in all kinds of pies like Uber, EA Arts, booking.com and tons more. Everyone has to draw the line where they feel ok. They're a reality we just have to learn to deal with.

 

When we go back to the boycott on the rag, lots of people included all of news international or anything murdoch owned. But the ban was the rag. Everyone picked their own line with what felt morally ok to them. Personally I know I've been hypocritical through this because I've wanted football and bought sky. Yet when I was offered a massive job in my late 20s with Sky, I turned it down because I didn't want his coin. But I'm ok with that contradiction in my life - it was much easier for me to give up cash than football. And I wasn't short of cash and earned a decent living. 

 

I think with this Saudi money, in general most people understand why players are going there. There's been no backlash at all for fab and bobby. Very little even for Steven Gerrard. I think the difference with Henderson, he's chosen to make a platform of support for minorities and specifically LGBTQ issues. Lots of people admired him because of his stance. And let's be honest, he wouldn't have made such an impact with his words unless he was captain of LFC, so those words weren't just his, they were our clubs to. So when he goes there, it's harder to take because people have backed him because of the man they thought he was and now feel cheated and he's cheated his position at the club to. 

 

So this Liverpool shouldn't take the money. Well I think ideally not. But we don't live in a vacuum. These players want to move. The saudi's turn their heads, what can we do as a club from there except be compensated for what they're taking? And let's be clear they are taking them, because a footballer who's had his head turned is no good to us and they are turning the players heads before contacting the clubs, as we saw played out with Henderson. 

 

So there just isn't a write or wrong answer here. It's a grey area and truthfully the real issue is allowing state involvement in our sport. FIFA for years has opposed state influence on national FAs, but then has allowed all this mess to happen? It shouldn't be a problem we as sports fans need to solve or think about. The people who run the game need to do more to protect it. But sadly these cunts are as corrupted as anyone in all this. 

 

I think Henderson was towing the party line as club captain. Anything he said was likely written for him (not to say he wouldn't have agreed with the message of it) but I dont think he woke up one day with a desire to make statements to the press on this subject.

This was the FA and LFC, like many other big organisations, who were falling over themselves to be seen as part of the movement from a PR point of view. Henderson happened to be the vocal point from his position as Captain and all round good egg. Im sure he has supported many offer causes/groups when requested to do so.

 

When the Saudis came calling it should have stopped him in his tracks but it just validates the above- when he was giving his support it was PR exercise on what he saw as good moral reasons so why not- he doesnt feel passionately or deeply about it at all

  

 

 

 

        

[stringvest]

12 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

 

I suppose it depends on what we might do with the money. A bigger mess is the timing of all of this as it's torn up any real strategy we had for midfield. We would have been foolish not to sign the excellent Mac Allister at the price, but would we have really spent £60m on Szoboszlai if we'd known there was another £50m+ on the way? 

 

I'm not sure that there have been any transfers that we'd have been more actively involved in that have passed us by?

[Megadrive Man]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Is he even going? 

He's gone get over it. 

[El Rojo]

6 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

I'm not sure that there have been any transfers that we'd have been more actively involved in that have passed us by?

 

Bellingham was probably out with the wages, but if we'd known we'd more money to spend, Caicedo might have been an option. We could definitely have made a move for Kimmich, or we might have chosen to compete for Gvardiol at centre half.  

[stringvest]

6 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

 

Bellingham was probably out with the wages, but if we'd known we'd more money to spend, Caicedo might have been an option. We could definitely have made a move for Kimmich, or we might have chosen to compete for Gvardiol at centre half.  

 

I'm not paying too much attention, but apart from Bellingham, have any of the others signed for anyone?  

[kemskem]

4 hours ago, Reckoner said:

Some Newcastle fans saying it’s funny to see us lot complain about Saudi Arabia but lap up the transfer fees for older players. Not saying they are right but do they have a point?

I guess they think fans of other clubs who don’t like their owners should threaten to protest/boycott to try to prevent players from being sold to them.

[El Rojo]

4 hours ago, Reckoner said:

Some Newcastle fans saying it’s funny to see us lot complain about Saudi Arabia but lap up the transfer fees for older players. Not saying they are right but do they have a point?

 

Yeah, definitely. 
 

12 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

I'm not paying too much attention, but apart from Bellingham, have any of the others signed for anyone?  

 

No, but we won't be signing any of them with the Henderson/Fabinho money by itself. 

[Barrington Womble]

22 minutes ago, Dave D said:

 

I think Henderson was towing the party line as club captain. Anything he said was likely written for him (not to say he wouldn't have agreed with the message of it) but I dont think he woke up one day with a desire to make statements to the press on this subject.

This was the FA and LFC, like many other big organisations, who were falling over themselves to be seen as part of the movement from a PR point of view. Henderson happened to be the vocal point from his position as Captain and all round good egg. Im sure he has supported many offer causes/groups when requested to do so.

 

When the Saudis came calling it should have stopped him in his tracks but it just validates the above- when he was giving his support it was PR exercise on what he saw as good moral reasons so why not- he doesnt feel passionately or deeply about it at all

  

 

 

 

        

 

That's not a point of view I subscribe to to be honest. I think this has been a clear conscious effort on Henderson's part. He's done a lot more over the years than just wear an armband or laces. He's chosen to speak out. Just like he chose to put himself front and centre of the NHS fund raising during the pandemic. He's cultivated an image of himself of someone who cares passionately about social issues. Which is fine, great in fact. But if you stray from that line, people will always be quick to call you on it. It's a bit like when Bono was calling on the G8 or whatever it was to wipe out 3rd world debt only to have his name come out in the Panama papers. If you're going to preach to people, you need to be whiter than white. By going to Saudi I think Henderson has brought the impression he didn't care so much about those issues, which devalues everything he said. 

[Moo]

11 hours ago, Jurgen Knows said:

LGBT rights are human rights, and I believe that has been addressed. Are you going to ask me separate questions about every kind of human rights and expect me to write a separate answer to each question? Then accuse me of “conveniently ignoring” questions if I don’t?
 

If one government kills innocent people and the other persecutes homosexuals then one is not really much worse than the other, yes.

 

I’m sure you don’t think LGBT rights are the only kind of human rights worth getting outraged about.

 

I don't know why your taking this as a personal attack and I was not accusing you of ignoring anything.  I thought Henderson's actions were being debated here, hence the emphasis on the question of LGBT rights and his advocacy of that cause. 

[Dave D]

17 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

That's not a point of view I subscribe to to be honest. I think this has been a clear conscious effort on Henderson's part. He's done a lot more over the years than just wear an armband or laces. He's chosen to speak out. Just like he chose to put himself front and centre of the NHS fund raising during the pandemic. He's cultivated an image of himself of someone who cares passionately about social issues. Which is fine, great in fact. But if you stray from that line, people will always be quick to call you on it. It's a bit like when Bono was calling on the G8 or whatever it was to wipe out 3rd world debt only to have his name come out in the Panama papers. If you're going to preach to people, you need to be whiter than white. By going to Saudi I think Henderson has brought the impression he didn't care so much about those issues, which devalues everything he said. 

This is my point- he doesnt disagree with the statements he made- most normal people wouldn't. He was doing his bit as an ambassador for the club/FA- its not something that kept him awake at night. 

 

Compare this to some of the things Rashford has campaigned for and its chalk and cheese. Rashford believed passionately and it came through in his actions and words.

 

 

 

       

[Jurgen Knows]

3 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

I don't know why your taking this as a personal attack and I was not accusing you of ignoring anything.  I thought Henderson's actions were being debated here, hence the emphasis on the question of LGBT rights and his advocacy of that cause. 

Nothing personal here. I believe I answered your question. Have a nice day.

[an tha]

Not in the training pictures on club site today.

 

Maybe left the camp?

[El Rojo]

9 minutes ago, an tha said:

Not in the training pictures on club site today.

 

Maybe left the camp?

 

Henderson? I thought he was already gone? 

 

All this stuff seems to be moving at a snail's pace. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Dave D said:

This is my point- he doesnt disagree with the statements he made- most normal people wouldn't. He was doing his bit as an ambassador for the club/FA- its not something that kept him awake at night. 

 

Compare this to some of the things Rashford has campaigned for and its chalk and cheese. Rashford believed passionately and it came through in his actions and words.

 

 

 

       

I saw rashford and henderson as similar to be honest and Henderson used his position as club captain so it brought more strength to his words. It's just with rashford he had a bunch of Tory cunts highlighting his words and position every week, where obviously those LGBTQ+ issues come around in different types of news cycles.

 

I'd be interested to know how henderson is perceived outside the club. When I've been in London this week a couple of people have raised the issue with me, but I do think people love to flag anything that might be seen as double standards with LFC because we are vocal as a fan base about social issues. 

19 minutes ago, an tha said:

Not in the training pictures on club site today.

 

Maybe left the camp?

 

The echo said he wasn't there earlier. He must be gone surely? They must need him to do a medical too. 

[Strontium]

Maybe one reason the Saudis want someone like Henderson is precisely because he has been such a staunch advocate for gay rights, and it will help grease the wheels of social change.

 

I mean, you don't buy a pet cat if you want something that will fetch the newspaper.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Henderson being the catalyst for gay rights in Saudi Arabia would be up there with Bill & Ted's music bringing about world peace.

[aws]

7 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Henderson being the catalyst for gay rights in Saudi Arabia would be up there with Bill & Ted's music bringing about world peace.

So you’re saying there’s a chance? 

[dave u]

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

That's not a point of view I subscribe to to be honest. I think this has been a clear conscious effort on Henderson's part. He's done a lot more over the years than just wear an armband or laces. He's chosen to speak out. Just like he chose to put himself front and centre of the NHS fund raising during the pandemic. He's cultivated an image of himself of someone who cares passionately about social issues. Which is fine, great in fact. But if you stray from that line, people will always be quick to call you on it. It's a bit like when Bono was calling on the G8 or whatever it was to wipe out 3rd world debt only to have his name come out in the Panama papers. If you're going to preach to people, you need to be whiter than white. By going to Saudi I think Henderson has brought the impression he didn't care so much about those issues, which devalues everything he said. 

 

Yeah let's not forget he got himself an MBE from all that 'Saint Hendo' shit too. It was way more than just doing what the club and FA wanted him to.

[Torvald Utne]

I don't think I've ever given one shiny shit about what a footballer says or does off the pitch.  As with most things, I blame Twitter.

[TheHowieLama]

Nah, that's just silly -- Dalglish was a beacon decades before any of this nonsense.

[Dave D]

1 hour ago, dave u said:

 

Yeah let's not forget he got himself an MBE from all that 'Saint Hendo' shit too. It was way more than just doing what the club and FA wanted him to.

But are we writing off ANYTHING he’s done off the field based on this transfer?

 

He just strikes me as naive. He did what he thought was right but doesn’t really think too deeply about it.

 

I know it’s stereotypical to suggest footballers aren’t the brightest thinkers but many of them prove it again and again. 
 

Footballers often speak in cliches and sound bytes

[an tha]

3 hours ago, El Rojo said:

 

Henderson? I thought he was already gone? 

 

All this stuff seems to be moving at a snail's pace. 

Think it might be all wrapped up over weekend/very early next week.

 

Hopefully anyway.

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Yeah let's not forget he got himself an MBE from all that 'Saint Hendo' shit too. It was way more than just doing what the club and FA wanted him to.

And he got the football writers player of the year too and clearly that wasn't for his footballing contribution. 

[Dave D]

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I saw rashford and henderson as similar to be honest and Henderson used his position as club captain so it brought more strength to his words. It's just with rashford he had a bunch of Tory cunts highlighting his words and position every week, where obviously those LGBTQ+ issues come around in different types of news cycles.

 

I'd be interested to know how henderson is perceived outside the club. When I've been in London this week a couple of people have raised the issue with me, but I do think people love to flag anything that might be seen as double standards with LFC because we are vocal as a fan base about social issues. 

 

The echo said he wasn't there earlier. He must be gone surely? They must need him to do a medical too. 

I can’t put Rashford and Henderson together.

Rashford grew up facing racism and lack of food- he spoke from experience.

 

Henderson said what 98% of the population would when it was put to him.

 

Dont get me wrong, he’s been a mighty fool to accept this deal given what he can be quoted as saying- it will take him a little while to work out why 

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, Dave D said:

I can’t put Rashford and Henderson together.

Rashford grew up facing racism and lack of food- he spoke from experience.

 

Henderson said what 98% of the population would when it was put to him.

 

Dont get me wrong, he’s been a mighty fool to accept this deal given what he can be quoted as saying- it will take him a little while to work out why 

We'll have to agree to disagree. He did more than respond to what was put to him.