The Torres poll

[RazorBack]

He can go in the summer to Real Madrid, Barcelona or Inter as I think those are the only clubs that can afford him and are not English.

[Colonol]

I voted keep him but only till the end of the season unless the valuation of 50m is met and includes Anelka. Otherwise he stays.

[seven of eleven]

I vote 1 cos i am angry but when i calm down in a year or so it prob be 2.

[PaddyWhacked]

We should sell him and get as much for him as possible.

The one thing that pisses me off about Torres is this now confirms what I refused to believe. That is all the pundits claiming that under Roy he wasnt trying and just played well against Chelsea to put himself in the shop window.

I would take £50million plus Sturridge. We must have done some ground work on other possible alternatives to Suarez so there might be time to bring another striker in.

[Shreddy]

He can leave if he wants. Sick of those guys who are fucking begging him to stay. he can leave of he wants.

[Menc]

Is there not a middle option of 'keep him until the summer when we have a chance to replace him'?

[Superfly]

I'm for whatever enables us to get the most money for the 2 faced shitbag.

[Section_31]

I'd have trouble accepting him again as a Liverpool player again after this, knoing he's actively sought a move to one of our most hated rivals. Disgusting really. He's an arsehole, fuck him.

[The Dude Abides]

Whatever is best for the club.

[Red Nick]

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You guys have got to be seriously nuts right and some good posters as well, totally fucking mindblowing.

 

The guy hasnt given a fuck all season bar 3 games, puts in a transfer request with 2 days of the window left and you want to keep him.

 

I am relaxed and want him sold, the biggest betrayal of any player in the clubs history.

 

Gerrard only put in a transfer request after being fucked around by Parry and one of the few good things David Moores did was to rectify the situation imediately.

 

If I had the time I would neg all 85 of you

[Phoenix]

Why?

 

Convince him to stay and get rid of him when it is convenient for us.

 

Of course I want him to stay...can we attract another player on his level or with the potential in the next three days?

[Vincent Vega]

This is new territory for us and he will be the second player to move on to supposedly bigger and better things mid-contract and against the club's wishes in less than 12 months. We need to sort our shit out and soon if this isn't to become a more regular scenario. It's hard to take but now we know how all those fans of other clubs feel when we have gone and cherry picked their players.

 

This interview with Bluto from the Mail was only two years ago but seems like a lifetime ago considering recent events and make Torres look a bit of a tit to be honest (though I have some sympathy with him in that he was probably mis-sold the club when it's ambitions were discussed when he signed and for the last few years). Reading this though, he looked like he really got the club and the fans, but that no longer seems to be the case:

 

FERNANDO TORRES TALKS TO MARTIN SAMUEL: Liverpool's Spain superstar on Kaka, feeling at home and the battle to stop Manchester United's title chase | Mail Online

 

FERNANDO TORRES TALKS TO MARTIN SAMUEL: Liverpool's Spain superstar on Kaka, feeling at home and the battle to stop Manchester United's title chase

 

EXCLUSIVE by MARTIN SAMUEL

Last updated at 12:00 PM on 18th January 2009

 

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There is a line in a song by West Coast rappers, The Pharcyde. ‘I gotta kick somethin’ that means somethin’,’ they say. Different cultures, true, a world between south central Los Angeles and Liverpool, via the working class town of Fuenlabrada, on the outskirts of Madrid, but Fernando Torres would surely recognise the sentiment.

 

In an age when footballers are willingly traded like precious commodities, to win elections or put a business on the map, Torres is different. He is not comfortable being merely an expensive gun for hire. His first club, Atletico Madrid, is the subject of a lifelong devotion to the extent that he cannot imagine playing for another team in Spain.

 

On signing for his second, Liverpool, he was motivated to make a similar connection, and now pledges the same career loyalty. A cynic would argue that he is merely trying this red shirt on for size, that the commitment of a player imported for a club record transfer fee cannot compare to that of a stalwart such as Steven Gerrard or Jamie Carragher.

 

Perhaps this is true; but Torres has a manner that seems sincere. He is not so desperate to fit in that he has betrayed his birthright. When he speaks (excellent) English he still sounds more Spanish than scouse, but the words that tumble out reveal a man who is looking for kinship with more than just a random millionaires’ club.

 

Torres, too, wants to kick something that means something.

 

Earlier this week, he stood on a podium as one of a quintet of the world’s best footballers, as identified by fellow professionals and coaches. Cristiano Ronaldo received the highest acclaim, but Torres did not look miscast beside his fellow countryman Xavi Hernandez, Lionel Messi of Barcelona and the man whose name would soon dominate news bulletins around the globe, Kaka.

 

Within days, even at the Melwood training ground, where Liverpool’s players are preparing for back-to-back fixtures with city rivals Everton in the Premier League and FA Cup, the prospect of the Brazilian’s £100million transfer to Manchester City dominated the chatter in the dressing room. It is not unthinkable that Torres, 25 in March, may one day also be required to consider such an offer. Would he take it?

 

‘I don’t think so, no,’ said Torres. ‘Manchester City is not the right team for Kaka. Seriously, how can they pay £100million for Kaka?

 

‘Manchester City must first play UEFA Cup or Champions League football because I cannot see how any big player would want to play for them until then. Big players want to win trophies and Manchester City is not even in the race for trophies in England, let alone Europe. They are fighting to stay in the Premier League, or to get to the middle of the table.

 

‘They have to build from there and then go against the biggest clubs and after that, maybe, a top player will join them. Chelsea were high in the League before they started to sign really big stars. Now everyone wants to play for Chelsea, but they did not when Roman Abramovich first arrived. They built a strong club and then it happened.

 

‘For now, I cannot imagine Kaka playing for Manchester City. It would be a fantastic contract, yes, but there are other things more important than money. A player wants to be remembered for what he has won, for the medals, for what he has given his club.

 

‘Imagine 10 years after you stop playing, you go back, you look around, you are not in any picture, you have no medals, no trophies; it is like you played for nothing. You may have a fantastic car, a fantastic home, but what does it matter?

 

‘The biggest ambition in my career is still to win the European Cup. I want to have a picture of that to look at later; I want to have that medal. You can have a contract that is better than your friends, but no player looks back and says: "I won more money".

 

Not that Torres is blase about financial matters. More than comfortable now — a £20m transfer will do that for you — he was brought up in Fuenlabrada, a small city on the outskirts of Madrid, most famous in macho Spain for putting skirts on the stick man signs that indicate pedestrian crossing routes, in an attempt to make them gender-friendly.

 

Torres’s father, Jose, worked but his mother, Flori, devoted her day to making sure 10-year-old Fernando got to and from Atletico Madrid’s training camp at Orcasitas, an arduous trip.

 

‘We had to get a train, then a bus, then walk through a park and she did it two times a day,’ he recalled.

 

Torres took his devotion to Atletico from his grandfather and was well schooled in what it meant to follow the underdog. ‘It was more about the feeling than the results,’ he said. Just as well, really, for the club living in the shadow of mighty Real Madrid.

 

‘It was very hard to go through life as a small boy supporting Atletico.’

 

Torres said: ‘For all the other kids at the end of the season, their team was on parade with trophies. For Atletico, it was different, but I thought we represented something else: the workers of the city, the people that did not have a lot of money, who had it hard and then, when work was over, went to watch their team.

 

‘That was wonderful. Since then, what my club represents is very important. Sometimes Atletico felt small, because next door there was Real Madrid, probably the best club in the world for trophies and fame.

 

‘But when you were at our stadium it was different. There you could see that everybody was so proud of their team, they were on our side in that moment and then Monday — wake up, back to work.

 

‘Real Madrid represented something else. Glamour, big stars. But I came from a working-class family. Real did not mean as much to me. My father worked every day, my brother and sister had to travel many hours to study, so Atletico were for people like us.

 

‘Still, I do not think I could play for Real Madrid. I feel if you have the chance to play for Real Madrid you probably have a chance to play for a lot of other clubs, too — so I would pick another club.

 

‘It would be hard for me to live in Madrid with all the Atletico fans. I understand that. I still feel like an Atletico fan and when Liverpool go back to play Real Madrid in the Champions League, I will play as if I am an Atletico fan.’

 

Considering this, one might think Torres would connect more with the lot of Evertonians on Merseyside, but on signing for Liverpool he tapped instantly into the DNA of the club and the city, the way it contrives to be big, but not flash.

 

Torres has a highly marketable image, a website, and a brand logo which cockily inserts the number nine between his first and last names, but such paraphernalia is pretty standard for a leading sportsman these days. On all other fronts he remains grounded, unblinkingly in tune with his adopted home.

‘Liverpool is a massive club in reputation, but as soon as I came here it felt like Atletico to me,’ he said. ‘It is a working city, an honest city. The people work all week, and on Saturday they want to go to Anfield and watch the best team in the world. I had many offers in football, I had many big clubs to choose from, so I decided on something more than football.

 

‘The people here, the history, the way everybody comes together, I looked at that and I thought we have the chance to make this one of the greatest clubs in the world, again.

 

‘Now I feel Liverpool is my English club, the way Atletico is my Spanish club. I would not like to play for another English or Spanish club. This feeling is very important to me.’

 

One is immediately reminded of Ruud Gullit who, as manager of Newcastle United, dismissed the significance of the Tyne-Wear derby because Sunderland was a different city. No chance of Torres making a similar mistake about the importance to Liverpool fans of, say, any match against Manchester United.

 

If anything, Liverpool’s imported players can become too aware of the passions around certain games, as Javier Mascherano’s performance at Old Trafford last season indicated.

 

In an era when players kiss the badge one week and ask for a transfer the next, however, it is hard to discourage one who is attempting to turn a contracted job into a vocation.

 

‘When I arrived I knew that Liverpool were a massive club, but that is all I knew,’ Torres added. ‘I could not tell you the history or what we stood for; but then my first three days were spent in an apartment. I couldn’t go out because I was waiting for my medical and it was all a big secret, so the club sent me a lot of DVDs and books about Liverpool’s history.

 

‘I was there with my girlfriend and we were watching and trying to read, because it was all in English, and that is how I found out it was so much bigger than I knew. I read about Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Kenny Dalglish, Ian Rush, and I felt so proud to be sharing in this club.

 

‘When I was with Atletico I was made captain at the age of 19, which was too soon really. It mattered a lot to me and I was disappointed when people came in who knew nothing about us, nothing of our history; they did not understand what made our club different.

 

‘Looking back, we should have done what Liverpool did, because if you know your club, if you know what it stands for and if you are proud of it, you will play better because it will mean something to you.

 

‘You have to know what club you are playing for or you just play for yourself. Every time I put on a Liverpool shirt, I know it is more than just a football game.’

 

The nuances are gleaned over time. Torres said that when he arrived his target was to win the Champions League, but the locals quickly put him straight.

 

‘They would say, "No, no, the Premier League, we must win the Premier League",’ he recalled. ‘So now I feel that way, too. I know about this club. I know how important it is to win the Premier League after 19 years. I know that if Manchester United win the League this season it will be 18 titles for us and 18 for them, so we cannot let that happen.

 

‘I know that even though Chelsea and Arsenal are top teams, our biggest match of any season is with Manchester United. I know how important it is to win against Everton, too.

 

‘I imagine to win the League here would be like winning the European Championship with Spain after 44 years. We became heroes of the country, just 23 people.

 

‘There were 15 kilometres from the airport to the heart of Madrid and it was like a red sea, millions of people in the city centre all with Spanish flags, people stopping dead on the opposite side of the motorway to cheer us as we went by, getting out of their cars, standing on their cars.

 

‘It was strange. After the first game when we beat Russia 4-1, I did think it could be like every other tournament for us, when we start by playing well, but then nothing happens.

 

‘Then when we won our other group games we began to believe in ourselves and the turning point was against Italy in the quarter-finals. Throughout history, Italy beat Spain. We have the game, we have the players, but we always lose.

 

‘And then, when we beat Italy, and on penalties, I think we celebrated more than we did when we won the Final, because we knew. That was the key.

 

‘It is the same with Liverpool. Winning at Chelsea, winning against Manchester United, these are the results that give us belief — then, if we get a result at Old Trafford in March, it will be our Italy game.’

 

And it will, for Fernando Torres, most certainly kick something that means something.

[mouse1989]

One of the main issues is that no matter what the owners do on the transfer it's going to divide the fans yet again which just shouldn't be happening. One thing that we all agree on and that's we want the best of Liverpool football club and if that means selling Torres then fuck it, we'll move on.

[The Bugged Out]

FSG can't win here, if they sell the twat half the fans will go nuts and we won't be able to get a decent replacement In the limited time available. If they don't sell him the other half will be disgusted by torres wearing the shirt again and we won't have a striker playing in the best interests of the club. Devil and the deep blue sea.

[Rafa's Peggy's]

FSG can't win here, if they sell the twat half the fans will go nuts and we won't be able to get a decent replacement In the limited time available. If they don't sell him the other half will be disgusted by torres wearing the shirt again and we won't have a striker playing in the best interests of the club. Devil and the deep blue sea.

 

How the fuck have you got time to have an opinion on anything? Surely you've got a shitty nappy you should be changing?!!!

 

P.S. Fucking shit all this mate. No such thing as heroes in football anymore.

[lebron]

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You guys have got to be seriously nuts right and some good posters as well, totally fucking mindblowing.

 

The guy hasnt given a fuck all season bar 3 games, puts in a transfer request with 2 days of the window left and you want to keep him.

 

I am relaxed and want him sold, the biggest betrayal of any player in the clubs history.

 

Gerrard only put in a transfer request after being fucked around by Parry and one of the few good things David Moores did was to rectify the situation imediately.

 

If I had the time I would neg all 85 of you

 

Don't bother negging... atleast not me:-). I thought of not voting, as I wasn't pleased with the alternatives in the poll. I think we should keep him till the summer and sell him then if he hasn't made a spectacular u-turn by then. There are recent examples of players doing good jobs with their clubs even if they are tied up elsewhere in their mind - Alonso and Ronaldo in their last seasons. I've no doubt Torres would do a decent job for us for the rest of the season. If that gives us 5-6 extra points I'll happily swallow my pride for half a season. Add to that 4-5 months will perhaps make other clubs come into the mix as well.

 

Doesn't make any sense to sell to a rival now...

[dirk grout]

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You guys have got to be seriously nuts right and some good posters as well, totally fucking mindblowing.

 

The guy hasnt given a fuck all season bar 3 games, puts in a transfer request with 2 days of the window left and you want to keep him.

 

I am relaxed and want him sold, the biggest betrayal of any player in the clubs history.

 

Gerrard only put in a transfer request after being fucked around by Parry and one of the few good things David Moores did was to rectify the situation imediately.

 

If I had the time I would neg all 85 of you

 

Glad to see you're nice and relaxed. Have you considered that the long term goal of our owners is to be the best team in the league? Have you entertained the notion that selling one of our best players to one of our biggest rivals, particularly when we have no time to re-invest the money, is not particularly high on their 'to do list'? How about we tell the fucker hes going no where 'til the summer, try our best to win the uefa cup, (which we certainly won't do with n'gog up front), and sell to the highest bidder in the summer, which will almost certainly get us a higher offer than the one chelsea have made. Who knows, maybe a foreign team like barca or inter will be in for him and we won't have to sell the best striker in the world to one of our biggest rivals after all. Now theres a thought. The mancs wouldn't even sell us heinze for fucks sake.

[RobbieOR]

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You guys have got to be seriously nuts right and some good posters as well, totally fucking mindblowing.

 

The guy hasnt given a fuck all season bar 3 games, puts in a transfer request with 2 days of the window left and you want to keep him.

 

I am relaxed and want him sold, the biggest betrayal of any player in the clubs history.

Gerrard only put in a transfer request after being fucked around by Parry and one of the few good things David Moores did was to rectify the situation imediately.

If I had the time I would neg all 85 of you

 

Torres has been lied to for 3 years now about how we're going to invest in players and we havent done anything. He's probably sick of listening to broken promises and I dont blame him for wanting to leave. The timing is cuntish but dont make out like its not fair that he wants to go..

[ngogswilly]

Torres has been lied to for 3 years now about how we're going to invest in players and we havent done anything. He's probably sick of listening to broken promises and I dont blame him for wanting to leave. The timing is cuntish but dont make out like its not fair that he wants to go..

 

I want rid of him now but your 100% right.

 

I think alot of people have let their emotions get the better of them with this one.

 

I'm disgusted with him. Absolutely disgusted with the timing of this. He should have waited till the summer.

 

But I won't pretend like everything was rosy at this club for the past 2/3 years. I mean, appointing Hodgson must have been the last straw. Fucking absolute moronic fools decision. And Kenny has been left with the fallout from it. Appointing Kenny back in June could have potentially avoided all this shite. But we'll never know I suppose.

[RobbieOR]

I want rid of him now but your 100% right.

 

I think alot of people have let their emotions get the better of them with this one.

 

I'm disgusted with him. Absolutely disgusted with the timing of this. He should have waited till the summer.

 

But I won't pretend like everything was rosy at this club for the past 2/3 years. I mean, appointing Hodgson must have been the last straw. Fucking absolute moronic fools decision. And Kenny has been left with the fallout from it. Appointing Kenny back in June could have potentially avoided all this shite. But we'll never know I suppose.

 

Yep, Spot on, man. Its easy to say Torres is a cunt for wanting to go blah blah blah. Its up to Kenny to try and convince him that his future is here.

[dirk grout]

isnt he our top scorer in europe.:whistle:

 

If you think we'll win the uefa cup with n'gog up front then you obviously rate him more highly than me.

[lucozade]

Yep, Spot on, man. Its easy to say Torres is a cunt for wanting to go blah blah blah. Its up to Kenny to try and convince him that his future is here.

 

Kenny has had less than 3 weeks in the role and there's no actual guarantee that Kenny's future is here. He's a caretaker. Whatever assumptions some fans may like to make no one actually knows who will be our Manager next season.

 

How can Kenny talk to Torres about the future and convince him that his lies here, when Kenny doesn't know his own? Which is why this 'caretaker' approach is quite flawed imho. And why Dalglish is going to be operating at a considerable disadvantage trying to have that conversation tbf. Just saying.

[redrosetints]

Question is, would Arsenal be better off without Fabregas, City without Tevez or United without Rooney ?

 

Indeed, would we have been better off without Gerrard 4 years ago ?

 

I think the clear answer to each is, no, they are better off with those players in their teams and this season each of those 3 at out rivals has pulled a 'stunt' to engineer a move, on each occasion, their teams have convinced them to stay.

 

We are clearly better off WITH Torres, Im sure Kenny would agree and if he can he'll keep him.

[Block109'er]

If this deal doesn't go through now, it's going to be very hard for Torres to win back the support and affection of the fans.

 

That is unless the first thing he does on Tuesday morning is get down on his knees, beg for forgiveness, sign an immediate extension to his current contract and then get out there against Stoke and play like his life depends upon it.

 

Sadly though, if he is still a Liverpool player come Midnight on Monday I can't see any of the above happenning.

 

All I can see is even more sulking and a growing unrest from him and from us.

 

Balls in Chelsea's court now - £50M tomorrow and he's yours.

 

Adios.

[Abs]

Just wanted to get the consensus about Nando. Was going to post this last night, but giving the anger on here, didn't think it was the best time. Most of us have slept on it now, so putting it out there.

 

Given that the likes of Rooney, Tevez, Fabregas etc in the past have all handed in transfer request and are still at their clubs means Nando can be convinced to stay. Also considering Stevie nearly joined those plastic cunts TWICE is also testament to this theory, even though the circumstances to that were are little bit different.

 

The question and point of the poll is are you done with Torres or should we do everything in the next three days to convince him to stay? If he does miraculously do a u-turn like some of the above, can you forgive him?

 

I honesty don't see the point in keeping him until the summer just by rejecting the Chelsea bids and his transfer request.

 

Never handed in a transfer request, hence why the deal never happened despite Barca pushing him to do so