'Liverpool is my home and I will come back'

[rebel23]

Redknight knocks it out the park as the yanks would say

 

As frustrating as Benitez could be at times, i'd trade it all and last season in a heartbeat for this nightmare

 

Rafa did indeed paper over a lot of cracks at LFC

[billypilgrimnz]

Some pretty silly arguments here. I think it was time for Rafa to leave; doesn't mean I wanted Roy, does it? Also doesn't mean that I didn't appreciate the good Rafa did to the club.

 

And that is that.

[El Rojo]

The ability to know which fights to fight is a big part of that job. Wenger has a whole football ground calling him a paedophile and the media just turns a blind eye, he seems quite capable of putting his focus where it matters and until 2009 so had Rafa for the most part, although there were one or two bemusing periods before that.

 

The whole dirty tricks campaign (Redknapp? Really?) multiplied after the Mr Ferguson stuff. Rafa chose to get in the ring and seemed amazed that it escalated after that. Anyone at LFC could have told him not to do it because it would just make things worse, but there was nobody he would listen to and no one who could make him see sense. This preposterous 'respect' he's supposed to now have for Parry, fuck me talk about lying through your teeth.

 

There was another example in 2007 when he pursued Heinze; somebody should have told him we'd not win that one if United dug their heels in. Some people make it sound like Rafa was this wilting little flower besieged in every direction, but he quite definitely wasn't.

 

In the end all he heard in his head was his own voice; either genuinely his own views spouted by himself or a cavalcade of toadies hanging on every word, afraid to say 'boo' to him.

 

Not a good recipe for sanity I'm afraid. A lot of blame for what Rafa ultimately became can be laid at a lot of doors, but this sycophantic pretense that none of those doors were Rafa's own solves fuck all.

 

It'll never end. I'm not unhappy about that because I've always found him a fascinating compelling character, but exasperating in equal measure. It happens a lot in the 'entertainment' world and people will put up with high maintance prima donnas if they deliver. Look how long it took Abramovich to bounce out The Spesh.

 

Rafa was devastatingly sidetracked last season. Pretending he would have called time on that despite the situation deteriorating rapidly is an act of extraordinary futility. If he had chosen us over Inter I'd have had serious doubts about his sanity. He clearly had no other place to go.

 

Still, saves us talking about the current load of shite I suppose...

 

Good post, and 'devastatingly sidetracked' is a great description of how he ended up last season. I think one of us probably has more sympathy for him in that regard though!

 

I think we had a fucking wonderful asset as a footballer manager. His downward spiral began with that pair taking over the club. He was far from flawless, but I wouldn't hold him any more than halfway responsible for his own downfall. He wasn't working on solid ground and was doomed to failure once the asset stripping and subsequent spin started. I think his judgement became impaired as a result of the pressure he was under, most of which was coming from inside the club. He made plenty of mistakes (Keane, Alonso, Aquilani etc), but for me, the vast majority were post 2007.

 

I keep harping back to it, but look at the morning of the 2007 European Cup Final. We were the envy of everybody and the future looked very special indeed. Little did we know.

 

In terms of the Ferguson stuff, I think that sometimes discretion isn't always the better part of valour. He stood up to him in a way that no other manager has and I loved him all the more for it. I don't think the subsequent bad run had a lot to do with it. Anyway, very different times. It happened about a month after the team had been booed for going top.

 

And as you rightly say, this one will run and run.

[Sol18]

Once Rafa left, it was practically impossible to get anyone better. If it was possible, then that manager would not touch us with a barge pole!

[Guest ian garro]

The thing about Heinze there really pisses me off. I understand the "only picking battles you can win" mentality, but with Heinze, we were in the right ? There was no reason that that lad should not have been allowed to join us. The only thing which did stop him was a spineless FA, in this country. Ferguson flexed his muscles, and they shat their kecks.

 

It's ok saying "we were never going to win that one", but where does that stop ? If that's the overriding feeling, what is the point of carrying on ? What about if this same situation arises again, but it's them who want to sign one of our players - do we just bend over and take our medicine ? If so, I think that's the whole thing done for me. We used to have a bit of pride.

 

As for Benitez, I dont really care either way about this article. He gave me the greatest football-related night of my life, and a shed load of other brilliant times, he didn't deserve all the personal shit he got (especially on here, from a select few), but he's gone now - and thats the end of the matter. Personally, I would have given him more time, but I can see there was a case for a change - the caveat there being you only make a change for the better. If you'd have told me we could replace him with a Hiddink, for example, I'd have said "so be it". That was never going to be the case though - anyone with a hole in his arse could see that.

 

Instead, we just got change for changes' sake - and are worse off for it. I'd suggest Roy is aware that under normal circumstances, he would not have been near being offered the job, and therefore is quite comfotable with the situation. If things dont pick up, he'll be off and he'll have "Managed Liverpool FC" on the CV I keep hearing about - and he'll be able to point to the turmoil at the club as a mitigating factor.

 

I just can't see any relief at the moment, and it fucking hurts.

[bossy]

I think a number of people have it for Rafa as they had friends and or family working at the club, who were kicked out.

[t1971]

I think a number of people have it for Rafa as they had friends and or family working at the club, who were kicked out.

 

Theres definately some hidden agenda in the hate towards Rafa.

[goatboy59]

The thing about Heinze there really pisses me off. I understand the "only picking battles you can win" mentality, but with Heinze, we were in the right ? There was no reason that that lad should not have been allowed to join us.

 

Is the question mark a typo? Not being funny, but if it is supposed to be there then you accept there were sides to the argument and not as cut and dried as you suggest, certainly if a club has the player's registration I would suggest they'd have a say in whom they sold him to.

 

And was Heinze even worth the hassle? This shit started in late June and after a few weeks we still had time to get a centre half in. As it stood the verdict was in late August, sure enough it was for MU, surer enough we had no time to get another player and surest enough Agger was injured weeks later leaving us with Sami and Carra.

 

Wow, who could have seen that coming?

 

Aquilani was by far the worst one though, but because of the power he had at that time and the amateur dramatics at others few stood up to tell him the blindingly obvious.

 

It wasn't his fault a lot of the time, but he ended up at a point where he could no longer be approached with anything like a conflicting viewpoint. For all of Shanks' and Paisley's greatness, they had the boot room and some spiky, opinionated, talented men alongside them. Rafa had Pellegrino and Sammy, largely because that's how he wanted it.

 

And it bit him on the arse. He got most of the 'control' Valencia wouldn't give him and Inter won't give him. He won titles in Spain, he will win titles in Italy.

 

He might learn a lesson, you never know.

[mattyq]

The ability to know which fights to fight is a big part of that job. Wenger has a whole football ground calling him a paedophile and the media just turns a blind eye, he seems quite capable of putting his focus where it matters and until 2009 so had Rafa for the most part, although there were one or two bemusing periods before that.

 

The whole dirty tricks campaign (Redknapp? Really?) multiplied after the Mr Ferguson stuff. Rafa chose to get in the ring and seemed amazed that it escalated after that. Anyone at LFC could have told him not to do it because it would just make things worse, but there was nobody he would listen to and no one who could make him see sense. This preposterous 'respect' he's supposed to now have for Parry, fuck me talk about lying through your teeth.

 

There was another example in 2007 when he pursued Heinze; somebody should have told him we'd not win that one if United dug their heels in. Some people make it sound like Rafa was this wilting little flower besieged in every direction, but he quite definitely wasn't.

 

In the end all he heard in his head was his own voice; either genuinely his own views spouted by himself or a cavalcade of toadies hanging on every word, afraid to say 'boo' to him.

 

Not a good recipe for sanity I'm afraid. A lot of blame for what Rafa ultimately became can be laid at a lot of doors, but this sycophantic pretense that none of those doors were Rafa's own solves fuck all.

 

It'll never end. I'm not unhappy about that because I've always found him a fascinating compelling character, but exasperating in equal measure. It happens a lot in the 'entertainment' world and people will put up with high maintance prima donnas if they deliver. Look how long it took Abramovich to bounce out The Spesh.

 

Rafa was devastatingly sidetracked last season. Pretending he would have called time on that despite the situation deteriorating rapidly is an act of extraordinary futility. If he had chosen us over Inter I'd have had serious doubts about his sanity. He clearly had no other place to go.

 

Still, saves us talking about the current load of shite I suppose...

 

The thing is, Goatie, is that i agree with virtually everything you've written there. Good post.

It's a real shame that you and a few others seem to have a red mist descending problem when it comes to Rafa and bitter hyperbole is spouted with gay abandon.

Again, i've never fully understood this - i'm guessing there's some sort of ulterior motives for it

[Benitaur]

Is the question mark a typo? Not being funny, but if it is supposed to be there then you accept there were sides to the argument and not as cut and dried as you suggest, certainly if a club has the player's registration I would suggest they'd have a say in whom they sold him to.

 

And was Heinze even worth the hassle? This shit started in late June and after a few weeks we still had time to get a centre half in. As it stood the verdict was in late August, sure enough it was for MU, surer enough we had no time to get another player and surest enough Agger was injured weeks later leaving us with Sami and Carra.

 

Wow, who could have seen that coming?

 

Aquilani was by far the worst one though, but because of the power he had at that time and the amateur dramatics at others few stood up to tell him the blindingly obvious.

 

It wasn't his fault a lot of the time, but he ended up at a point where he could no longer be approached with anything like a conflicting viewpoint. For all of Shanks' and Paisley's greatness, they had the boot room and some spiky, opinionated, talented men alongside them. Rafa had Pellegrino and Sammy, largely because that's how he wanted it.

 

And it bit him on the arse. He got most of the 'control' Valencia wouldn't give him and Inter won't give him. He won titles in Spain, he will win titles in Italy.

 

He might learn a lesson, you never know.

 

If anything, the time at Valencia proved him right. How the fans of Valencia now long back to the days. Instead they lost Rafa, but went out and splurged on Villa, Joaquin and a host of other Spanish prodigies. All that talent, and didn't win anything. Imagine all that talent in Rafa's hands instead, and they might still be champions today.

 

He never got control there, he never got full control here either

 

If he was backed like Wenger was, ie given full control of transfers and all football matters, and was given a decent transfer budget every year, we would have won the league at least once already

 

Instead, he is blamed for being forced to wheel and deal.

 

Imagine if Barry and Keane did come over, as he wanted, and he could throw money at Alonso, the way other clubs with too many players do, we would still have Alonso PLUS Barry and maybe Keane. Heck we might still have gotten Aquilani on top of that one year on too without selling anyone.

 

Instead we have a manager who took an unnecessary gamble with his squad, and lost players unnecessarily.

 

I view Rafa as one of only two managers world wide (the other being Mourinho) who is young enough, and has the quality and experience to start a long term legacy at a club similar to Wenger or Fergie

 

Getting in someone like Hiddink or Capello is too late, as they are closer to retiring than starting a lasting legacy, and are at most stop gaps for a few years, although they might bring success

 

Speaking of Mourinho, he isn't the type who stays at one place for long too. So he will win titles everywhere he goes and never settle

 

Rafa on the other hand was happy, and trying to build a legacy. This is clear from the Barca coaches he brought in, and the Aussie doctor etc. Bottom up a long term strategy

 

Now what we have is "England's best manager" who IMO is inferior to Houllier.

 

Dalglish is a nice idea, but I fear he has been out of day to day managing a club for too long. I would hate to see the daggers out for him the moment he doesn't do well.

[goatboy59]

The thing is, Goatie, is that i agree with virtually everything you've written there. Good post.

It's a real shame that you and a few others seem to have a red mist descending problem when it comes to Rafa and bitter hyperbole is spouted with gay abandon.

Again, i've never fully understood this - i'm guessing there's some sort of ulterior motives for it

 

It isn't a red mist, certainly not ulterior motives (like what, out of interest?)that's the sort of thing that often gets said by people who deny you're making a half decent point occasionally.

 

Any real annoyance is with the people who can't accept their own views being challenged in the slightest.

 

About someone who left the club months ago, to his own clear advantage. Money in his pocket, his rep intact, THE plum job in Europe currently. He'd have been completely nuts not to go

 

As I've said, he's fascinating. I'm looking forward to the CL knockout, because I can't see how the draw will deny him a crack at one of the big challenges.

 

It's going to be Mourinho, surely?

[WaltonRed]

Its not hate.

 

No one on here I know who wanted him out 'hate' him

 

It was time for him to go, its gone tits up since but i wouldnt have him back for all the tea in China.

[goatboy59]

If anything, the time at Valencia proved him right. How the fans of Valencia now long back to the days.

 

Those days also included Kuper, and whatever Rafa thought about it all what they were doing as a collective was clearly working.

 

I was one of many arrogant Liverpool fans who told themselves the table/lamp nonsense was just something he said to try and keep well in with their fans. Turns out it didn't especially matter to him how Valencia succeeded if the source of it did not lead directly back to him, which now seems eerily like what happened here.

[Guest ian garro]

The crux of my post wasnt really about Rafa. It was about the principle of fighting your corner, and the "change for changes' sake" (my opinion). Benitez is the past. To keep raking over his perceived strengths/weaknesses/failings isn't doing any of us any good really.

 

With the Heinze thing, I can imagine the furore in TTW&R, if it had happened to us under a different manager. You know, like one the editor actually liked.

 

What a pity.

 

The ? wasn't a typo, but you misread the meaning.

[Guest Captain Jonjo]

Theres some good points in the article, I think things could of been very different had certain thing not happened or been done, Rafa could of brought success, the fat yanks taking over and benitez's right hand man pako leaving were big dents,

[goatboy59]

 

Benitez is the past. To keep raking over his perceived strengths/weaknesses/failings isn't doing any of us any good really.

 

 

Tell Dion Fanning and the OP.

[goatboy59]

 

With the Heinze thing, I can imagine the furore in TTW&R, if it had happened to us under a different manager. You know, like one the editor actually liked.

 

 

Oh dear.

 

I'm wondering if you can find an example of (a) a manager he liked ;) (b) another player who was pursued with little chance of success and the blame placed solely on the other club rather than our manager for being stupidly obstinate.

 

No probs if you're not arsed.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Tell Dion Fanning and the OP.

 

People on both sides of the argument are using him to either defend or criticise our current manager.

 

Pointless really. He's at the European Champions now, and won't be coming back anytime soon.

[WaltonRed]

He'll never be back.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Probably not, no.

 

Can't see him really wanting to manage in England again.