Broughton and Purslow - where are you?

[Horus]

Loads going on - lots of activity, mainly SOS-SL stuff.

 

Silence does not denote inactivity.

 

I just think SoS have disappointed the base again, they disappear for weeks/months at a time, pop back when something kicks off in the media, then disappear again.

 

How about a piece on all the money that has been raised from CL/League prize money since they arrived versus our 20m net spend in their 3 years? How about regular pieces about them that force journalists to keep discussions of them in the public domain?

 

I sent an email to SoS offering to interview Doug Ellis on your behalf, to discuss Gilletts claims that he made during the interview with Mick, where he claimed it was the financial markets that forced debt onto the club. I didn't even get a thanks but no thanks reply. This was just after this occurred. I also emailed loads of suggestions for things that could be done to force Moores into the public eye ages before his puff piece in the times. Again, just ignored.

 

The SoS/SL stuff is both pie in the sky, and unimportant. Liverpool fans have once again just sat back and let the transfer window pass, and the start of the season pass without any indication that life will be difficult for the people fucking up the club, and the money men profiting from our demise.

 

It's the most tepid union I think I've ever heard about. Are there any plans to get militant or will that interfere with the summer training camps?

 

What are the aims of SoS these days?

[Graham Smith]

I just think SoS have disappointed the base again, they disappear for weeks/months at a time, pop back when something kicks off in the media, then disappear again.

 

How about a piece on all the money that has been raised from CL/League prize money since they arrived versus our 20m net spend in their 3 years? How about regular pieces about them that force journalists to keep discussions of them in the public domain?

 

I sent an email to SoS offering to interview Doug Ellis on your behalf, to discuss Gilletts claims that he made during the interview with Mick, where he claimed it was the financial markets that forced debt onto the club. I didn't even get a thanks but no thanks reply. This was just after this occurred. I also emailed loads of suggestions for things that could be done to force Moores into the public eye ages before his puff piece in the times. Again, just ignored.

 

The SoS/SL stuff is both pie in the sky, and unimportant. Liverpool fans have once again just sat back and let the transfer window pass, and the start of the season pass without any indication that life will be difficult for the people fucking up the club, and the money men profiting from our demise.

 

It's the most tepid union I think I've ever heard about. Are there any plans to get militant or will that interfere with the summer training camps?

 

What are the aims of SoS these days?

 

Who did you email and when?

[Horus]

Who did you email and when?

 

I can check when I get home if you'd like?

[Graham Smith]

I can check when I get home if you'd like?

 

I'm sure you did - just interested in chasing down why you didn't get an answer.

 

Please go and interview him - our aims remain the same.

 

Americans Out - hopefully we have seen the last of them at the ground through the efforts made.

 

The Banks to do the right thing and bring this sorry mess to an end by accepting a reasonable offer or refusing to refinance.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about the SOS/SL stuff. But can I ask a general question - if there was an offer for the supporters to buy the Club for say £350m which required the supporters raising £50m to secure funding for the balance do you think we might get 100,000 people to do £500 on average to raise the £50m and how long would it take?

Edited September 1, 2010 by Graham Smith

[Guest ShoePiss]

I'm sure you did - just interested in chasing down why you didn't get an answer.

 

Please go and interview him - our aims remain the same.

 

Americans Out - hopefully we have seen the last of them at the ground through the efforts made.

 

The Banks to do the right thing and bring this sorry mess to an end by accepting a reasonable offer or refusing to refinance.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about the SOS/SL stuff. But can I ask a general question - if there was an offer for the supporters to buy the Club for say £350m which required the supporters raising £50m to secure funding for the balance do you think we might get 100,000 people to do £500 on average to rasie the £50m and how long would it take?

 

I don't think you would. The amount of people saying they can no longer afford to go the game tells me money is tight for a lot of people. If they can't afford to go the game they can't afford to spend 500. I'm sure if they did put up the 500 they'd actually want to see the team play...

[Penfold]

But can I ask a general question - if there was an offer for the supporters to buy the Club for say £350m which required the supporters raising £50m to secure funding for the balance do you think we might get 100,000 people to do £500 on average to raise the £50m and how long would it take?

 

When you say to secure funding, do you mean £300m loan? Not suggesting a leveraged buy out are you? :whistle:

[Horus]

I'm sure you did - just interested in chasing down why you didn't get an answer.

 

Please go and interview him - our aims remain the same.

 

Americans Out - hopefully we have seen the last of them at the ground through the efforts made.

 

The Banks to do the right thing and bring this sorry mess to an end by accepting a reasonable offer or refusing to refinance.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree about the SOS/SL stuff. But can I ask a general question - if there was an offer for the supporters to buy the Club for say £350m which required the supporters raising £50m to secure funding for the balance do you think we might get 100,000 people to do £500 on average to rasie the £50m and how long would it take?

 

I'd like to answer your question with a question.

 

Let's say it only took one day, and the £50m was there. What makes supporter ownership with £300m with of funding to purchase the club, any different from a couple of shysters from across the pond with funding in place to buy the club?

 

How do we move past this to invest in the stadium and the team?

 

Because until you can provide me with satisfactory answers to my questions, then your question is misplaced at best.

 

Graham, I appreciate you answering and I'm not trying to make this another "I hate SoS" rant.

[lifetime fan]

graham the owners are not going to sell when there is still money to be made.

 

Until they see fans are prepared to boycott games and hit them financially they will go no where.

[TommyW]

I honestly dont believe the club is for sale, G&H are just stringing the banks (and us) along

[Graham Smith]

I'd like to answer your question with a question.

 

Let's say it only took one day, and the £50m was there. What makes supporter ownership with £300m with of funding to purchase the club, any different from a couple of shysters from across the pond with funding in place to buy the club?

 

How do we move past this to invest in the stadium and the team?

 

Because until you can provide me with satisfactory answers to my questions, then your question is misplaced at best.

 

Graham, I appreciate you answering and I'm not trying to make this another "I hate SoS" rant.

 

It's entirely different due to the intial injection being real equity and the ongoing model being debt reduction and repayment.

 

It would work for two reasons - immediately a significant part of the debt burden would be reduced due to the sums introduced by the supporters (meaning less interest payment) and over a further period of time supporters would be continually invited to buy shares changing debt into equity.

 

On top of this the funding can be negotiated at better rates than are currently being paid again reducing interest repayments.

 

This Club has excellent operating profits, sufficient to fund a decent transfer budget each year - it is just that money is going out to banks as you know.

 

The stadium solution is self financing (in the sense that the building would be done by a long term mortgage) and has not been cracked because of the Club's perilous state. The latest work we have done on this is that a stadium solution is as little as £200m.

[Horus]

It's entirely different due to the intial injection being real equity and the ongoing model being debt reduction and repayment.

 

It would work for two reasons - immediately a significant part of the debt burden would be reduced due to the sums introduced by the supporters (meaning less interest payment) and over a further period of time supporters would be continually invited to buy shares changing debt into equity.

 

On top of this the funding can be negotiated at better rates than are currently being paid again reducing interest repayments.

 

This Club has excellent operating profits, sufficient to fund a decent transfer budget each year - it is just that money is going out to banks as you know.

 

The stadium solution is self financing (in the sense that the building would be done by a long term mortgage) and has not been cracked because of the Club's perilous state. The latest work we have done on this is that a stadium solution is as little as £200m.

 

Thanks, So it is a fan ownership model based on debt reduction?

 

It is my understanding that we have struggled to improve the team and pay off interest with debt a lot lower than £300m, and if your plan is that fool proof, how come the current owners (who are desperate to retain us) are unable to implement this debt reduction model?

 

The key to unlocking the next load of money for any owners is the stadium, and if it is guaranteed to be self financing and not in need of financial guarantees from the club, why isn't there currently one under construction?

[adidas samba]

Broughton wasnt at the game on sunday,maybe he is out of the country or watchin chavski?. All we know is that twit and twat are laughin thier fuckin heads off right now.

[Horus]

Graham this is the address I sent my stuff to. I git it off the SoS site at the time.

 

admin@spiritofshankly.com

[WhiskeyJar]

You think we will last that long?

 

If we still have those two as our owners then, I think we are finished as a club.

 

The first riot and burning down of the shop would be a few months prior to that date though!

 

People getting rallied behind the clubs emblem would be a delight to see. People in and around Liverpool should be getting their act together and fucking on a rally against the yanks.

 

The city wont allow their club to die and neither will all the fans abroad. I dont care what it takes how long it takes but we are getting past being patient and nice. There has got to be something that we all can do: raise money, use any skeletons that Hicks and Gillette might be hiding in their closet, force RBS hand to not refinance the yanks, online petition, revolts, strikes....anything just to force cancer and aids to sell us.

 

There has got be something that us fans can to in order to push the sale.

 

E-mails and empty threats dont cut it anymore.

 

We are Liverpool FC, as fans we are the heart and soul of what makes this club great.

 

Do not fucking tell me there is nothing we can do because I dont fucking accept that.

 

Someone needs to stand up and voice our concerns, someone needs to step up to the plate and fight these fuckers and I for one I am tired of waiting for the next Messiah to come.

[WhiskeyJar]

Thanks, So it is a fan ownership model based on debt reduction?

 

It is my understanding that we have struggled to improve the team and pay off interest with debt a lot lower than £300m, and if your plan is that fool proof, how come the current owners (who are desperate to retain us) are unable to implement this debt reduction model?

 

The key to unlocking the next load of money for any owners is the stadium, and if it is guaranteed to be self financing and not in need of financial guarantees from the club, why isn't there currently one under construction?

 

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, but the stadium is not the key to having a long stable club....in any business it does not matter what tools you have at your disposal or how much money you have....both of those are lost and gained at the same time.

 

The key to this is having owners that care....owners that you know will fight for you, your club and stand as a symbol for what you represent.

 

We do not have that.

 

If we did we would be looking at our new stadium going to games and talking about football instead of talking about financial debt models and how can SOS bail our club out of the mud.

 

I swear conjuring up models is NOT the way out of this.

[WhiskeyJar]

Broughton wasnt at the game on sunday,maybe he is out of the country or watchin chavski?. All we know is that twit and twat are laughin thier fuckin heads off right now.

 

Also how does it feel that maybe he is pocketing some of the transfer money when we need a striker so fucking badly??

[mypost]

if there was an offer for the supporters to buy the Club for say £350m which required the supporters raising £50m to secure funding for the balance do you think we might get 100,000 people to do £500 on average to raise the £50m and how long would it take?

 

Not a hope, ask 1m fans to raise 50, and you might get a response. In the current climate, few fans not "people", around the world, have 500 spare cash to throw around, for the serious prospect of no return on their investment.

[WhiskeyJar]

Not a hope, ask 1m fans to raise 50, and you might get a response. In the current climate, few fans not "people", around the world, have 500 spare cash to throw around, for the serious prospect of no return on their investment.

 

Jesus that small thinking:

 

Population of entire Liverpool Urban Area conurbation is 816216

816216 x 200 quid =

 

163 243 200

 

Not counting people that will donate from aboard.

 

Someone needs to start a website.

[Albertini]

It's entirely different due to the intial injection being real equity and the ongoing model being debt reduction and repayment.

 

It would work for two reasons - immediately a significant part of the debt burden would be reduced due to the sums introduced by the supporters (meaning less interest payment) and over a further period of time supporters would be continually invited to buy shares changing debt into equity.

 

On top of this the funding can be negotiated at better rates than are currently being paid again reducing interest repayments.

 

This Club has excellent operating profits, sufficient to fund a decent transfer budget each year - it is just that money is going out to banks as you know.

 

The stadium solution is self financing (in the sense that the building would be done by a long term mortgage) and has not been cracked because of the Club's perilous state. The latest work we have done on this is that a stadium solution is as little as £200m.

 

Do you have any info as to the state of the club's normal trading activity excluding the bungs to the Yanks... er sorry "Stadium Costs" and debt repayments?

 

It seems to me if we stripped those costs out of the club with the new tv and sponsorship deals and with a reduced wage bill the club as a stand alone entity should be generating some serious profit.

[piscinin]

As you say, deals of this size and complexity take place all the time, in many spheres of industry. The biggest difference is that the nature of modern football is to play everything out in public. Broughton could have been installed to find a buyer for, say, a struggling pharmaceutical company. He could have said that he "hoped" to find the right buyer, yet it would command very few column inches in the press, despite the intent being EXACTLY the same. Football clubs have very few shareholders compared to your regular large companies, but they have infinitely greater numbers of stakeholders. Those with some form of vested interest, even if it's only an emotional attachment.

 

The other argument is that having Broughton lead the process with BarCap will bring an entirely new, more respectable, and far more systematic air to the whole process. This will attract potential bidders who may have previously shied away because they didn't want to be messed about by Hicks and Gillett dealing directly with them. I have a feeling the Kuwaiti's (the al-Kharafi bidders) walked away at the last minute a year ago purely because the whole process was very ad-hoc, so open to the machinations of the tumours. Regardless of how wealthy you are, you would think carefully before committing your millions in this way.

 

Basically, Broughton is trying to deal with the issue in the proper way, away from prying eyes. It's just that the prying eyes have such a vested interest in proceedings that they will become agitated for not knowing what is (or isn't) going on.

 

I should add that any patronising or condescending tone in this post is purely accidental.

 

Good answer. To a different question.

[WaltonRed]

Where do SOS think people are getting the money from to throw in £500?

[Squabblefest]

 

Another point: Thanks Christian for telling us how many million Euros we signed Mereiles for. Can you tell us how much we brought in from sales too please??

 

As good an estimate as I've seen;

 

Anfield Road » £11.5m Raul Meireles signs for Reds

[Timão]

I think it was all part of the understandable "sales" technique of trying to create a market.

 

I think we're now looking at a limited number of sharks circling awaiting the bottoming out of the price.

 

And this is it in a nutshell.

 

No businessman in their right mind would buy us at this very moment for the prices being quoted. Enough is known about the botomless pit that is the club that any investor just has to wait.

 

So, by trying to create 'deadlines' you are trying to create the sense of urgency, only that potential buyers obviously do not have to bite.

 

I really wish people would just stop taking everything literally and every time a 'deadline' is missed someone is a 'cunt'.

 

I do not like Purslow and Broughton is not my ideal chairman, but the only 'cunts' at the club are the owners.

 

Frankly, who gives a toss about transfer windows or deadlines as long as the next owners are the right ones? I don't think you can over-estimate the importance of the next decision. Get it wrong and we are done for good. In that context, what are a few weeks or months?

 

Silence is golden for the moment.

[WaltonRed]

I just want to concentrate on football, this has wrecked head for far too long

[Graham Smith]

And this is it in a nutshell.

 

No businessman in their right mind would buy us at this very moment for the prices being quoted. Enough is known about the botomless pit that is the club that any investor just has to wait.

 

So, by trying to create 'deadlines' you are trying to create the sense of urgency, only that potential buyers obviously do not have to bite.

 

I really wish people would just stop taking everything literally and every time a 'deadline' is missed someone is a 'cunt'.

 

I do not like Purslow and Broughton is not my ideal chairman, but the only 'cunts' at the club are the owners.

 

Frankly, who gives a toss about transfer windows or deadlines as long as the next owners are the right ones? I don't think you can over-estimate the importance of the next decision. Get it wrong and we are done for good. In that context, what are a few weeks or months?

 

Silence is golden for the moment.

 

RBS have a major problem that all the emails and letters in the world won't solve.

 

Firstly, they probably don't want to refinance as the business model has moved the Club to unsustainable debt.

 

Secondly, someone has to pay that debt back at some point in the future - that someone is 99% likely to be you and me either through the profits we generate for another LBO or supporter investment (the debt being what is left when we are bought after going broke or a purchase price for a willing purchaser).

 

Currently RBS don't want to pull the rug from under the Americans as that would leave the Club getting sold following a fire sale and they (RBS) would lose a shed load.

 

Also they are unable to play too much of a part in the sale process as if they influence it to any great extent to the Americans' prejudice they'll be sued from here to eternity.

 

But RBS have to do something.

 

A purchaser that hits a number that satisfies RBS and the Americans is what is required, the problem is that number is a silly number and no one will offer it.

 

So RBS have painted themselves into a corner they have the following choices:

 

1. Refinance but that just delays and increases the problem but hope something turns up or;

 

2. Try and negotiate a deal with the Americans (who know they have RBS in a difficult position) but then find some sucker to pay the number they and the Americans come up with or;

 

3. Trigger an insolvency with the attendant loss, bad publicity and backlash that would entail.

 

That's where we are.