Keir Starmer

[Captain Howdy]

1 minute ago, Hank Moody said:

I don't understand, what dishonesty though. 

This is the bit where I mention his pledges that he backtracked on and his purging of the left and where you disagree. Problem is I don’t care enough about either him or the party or proving you wrong to invest time in it. I think he’s dishonest you don’t, we could go on and on and on but those opinions are not going to change so let’s not bore the forum to death with it.

[Numero Veinticinco]

35 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

This is the bit where I mention his pledges that he backtracked on and his purging of the left and where you disagree. Problem is I don’t care enough about either him or the party or proving you wrong to invest time in it. I think he’s dishonest you don’t, we could go on and on and on but those opinions are not going to change so let’s not bore the forum to death with it.

As much as I love being told what I think, I'd quite happily change my opinion and say he is dishonest *if* there's something to show he has been dishonest. I guess that's just how my mind works. I assumed you'd made your judgement off of something that has actually happened, which is why asked you what dishonesty you're talking about. It's hard for me to change my mind if I have no idea what you're referring to. *shrug* 

[Captain Howdy]

1 minute ago, Hank Moody said:

As much as I love being told what I think, I'd quite happily change my opinion and say he is dishonest *if* there's something to show he has been dishonest. I guess that's just how my mind works. I assumed you'd made your judgement off of something that has actually happened, which is why asked you what dishonesty you're talking about. It's hard for me to change my mind if I have no idea what you're referring to. *shrug* 

I just told you why I think he’s dishonest and I’m not playing your game sorry. I couldn’t care less what you think

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

I just told you why I think he’s dishonest and I’m not playing your game sorry. I couldn’t care less what you think

I just asked a question. What a cunt response. 

[Captain Howdy]

13 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

I just asked a question. What a cunt response. 

Not really. Im sure you couldn’t give a fuck what I think so we’re all square. Point is It’s nothing personal, I’ve pretty much changed the way I use the forum. For example I used to get really agitated about the music threads because I think I know best. It’s probably an age thing but I simply have no interest in changing anybodys viewpoint anymore or of imposing my own, on anything. I now just use the forum to post my opinions. People can agree or disagree, like them don’t like them, it’s no longer of any importance to me. 

[Arniepie]

I suppose you could argue his pledges to unite the party, were certainly not followed through. 

I'm still not a huge fan though I've been quite impressed the last week or so,however the best hope we have got of not enduring another half decade of these epic cunts is getting behind whoever opposes them.

We could be here all day arguing that should have been the case under corbyn, and it certainly should have been,but all it does is let the real enemy wreak even more damage. 

[Bruce Spanner]

Looks likely the VoNC will be tabled.

 

Could be interesting.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

Cheers for that Owen. 

[Section_31]

6 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Cheers for that Owen. 

I strongly disagree with that. This is for the Tories to lose not for Labour to win. 

 

Major's government fell not because people liked the idea of Blair's minimum wage or new deal (in all honesty, I don't remember any pledges except that fast track punishment for young offenders business and education education education.)

 

I think the reason he won is he cultivated an image of fresh, young, modern Britain as an alternative to stale, old, corrupt and decaying on the Tory benches. 

 

Oppositions don't win, governments lose.

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

45 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Cheers for that Owen. 

It's just such horseshit. On the very day they Labour start the process of unveiling their agenda, when a 15 point lead poll is released, he comes out with this. He's a Tory enabler. Fuck him. I bet I can find him and/or others like him rebutting 'why haven't they released policy yet' claims under the previous leader/s. And he'd be right, these things aren't done straight away because they're stupid if your aim is to win an election. 

 

 

[No2]

The Tories have weaponised the words Jeremy Corbyn. Labour need to do the same with Johnson. Take a page from the Mick Lynch playbook and just call everyone of them a liar on repeat. Where is the 350m? LIAR. Where are the 40 hospitals? LIAR. You said no border in the Irish Sea. LIAR. Levelling up. LIAR.  The list is endless and like the Tories the answer doesn't need to relate to the question. No matter the question just call them liars.

[Arniepie]

44 minutes ago, No2 said:

The Tories have weaponised the words Jeremy Corbyn. Labour need to do the same with Johnson. Take a page from the Mick Lynch playbook and just call everyone of them a liar on repeat. Where is the 350m? LIAR. Where are the 40 hospitals? LIAR. You said no border in the Irish Sea. LIAR. Levelling up. LIAR.  The list is endless and like the Tories the answer doesn't need to relate to the question. No matter the question just call them liars.

Definitely

They also need to highlight the fact that for the best part of 3 years the overwhelming majority stood behind him as he lied on an alert daily basis

 

[No2]

2 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Definitely

They also need to highlight the fact that for the best part of 3 years the overwhelming majority stood behind him as he lied on an alert daily basis

 

No need for details, just call them all liars until the point its in the public consciousness the same way Corbyn means Commie or whatever to the gammons. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Hank Moody said:

It's just such horseshit. On the very day they Labour start the process of unveiling their agenda, when a 15 point lead poll is released, he comes out with this. He's a Tory enabler. Fuck him. I bet I can find him and/or others like him rebutting 'why haven't they released policy yet' claims under the previous leader/s. And he'd be right, these things aren't done straight away because they're stupid if your aim is to win an election. 

 

 

I would have agreed with that headline last week; this week it just looks stupid. Fortunately, hardly anyone reads the Guardian so OJ couldn't enable the Tories if he wanted to.

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I would have agreed with that headline last week; this week it just looks stupid. Fortunately, hardly anyone reads the Guardian so OJ couldn't enable the Tories if he wanted to.

He's got a point. The Tories have imploded, Paterson, wallpapergate, partygate, Pincher, Johnson resigning. The headlines couldn't have been better for Labour if Starmer had written them himself. Its unlikely that amount of good fortune for Labour will last for the next two years. 

 

I can't see the problem in Labour announcing policies, why not? The things Labour has said they'd do have imo been positive, a nationalised care service, scrapping VAT on energy, taking away private school charitable status. All good, all popular. Starmers approach to Brexit and future relations with Europe was also  in my opinion well thought out and mature. I'd like to see Labour use the cost of living crisis to push for energy and rail to be taken back into public hands, its popular and it would put the Tories on the back foot. 

 

Now might not be the time but Jones is right Labour can't rely on the tories continually shooting themselves in the foot, the time will come when Starmers going to have to be bold and show an alternative vision.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

40 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

He's got a point. The Tories have imploded, Paterson, wallpapergate, partygate, Pincher, Johnson resigning. The headlines couldn't have been better for Labour if Starmer had written them himself. Its unlikely that amount of good fortune for Labour will last for the next two years. 

 

I can't see the problem in Labour announcing policies, why not? The things Labour has said they'd do have imo been positive, a nationalised care service, scrapping VAT on energy, taking away private school charitable status. All good, all popular. Starmers approach to Brexit and future relations with Europe was also  in my opinion well thought out and mature. I'd like to see Labour use the cost of living crisis to push for energy and rail to be taken back into public hands, its popular and it would put the Tories on the back foot. 

 

Now might not be the time but Jones is right Labour can't rely on the tories continually shooting themselves in the foot, the time will come when Starmers going to have to be bold and show an alternative vision.

The point is that Starmer gave a speech in Gateshead yesterday, talking about the kind of thing that Labour will do.  I think this tweet - openly promising to strengthen workers' rights - is also a step in the right direction.

 

It seems daft to slag Starmer off for not doing stuff, just as he's starting to do it.

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The point is that Starmer gave a speech in Gateshead yesterday, talking about the kind of thing that Labour will do.  I think this tweet - openly promising to strengthen workers' rights - is also a step in the right direction.

 

It seems daft to slag Starmer off for not doing stuff, just as he's starting to do it.

 

Yeah maybe. I didn't read it like that tbh.

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I would have agreed with that headline last week; this week it just looks stupid. Fortunately, hardly anyone reads the Guardian so OJ couldn't enable the Tories if he wanted to.

Yeah, he looks a bit of an idiot given the timing, but it was always going to be that way. There’s a reason Corbyn, Miliband, Brown, Blair, et al didn’t unveil solid major policy platforms in the early days, and that should especially be true now given the horrendous situation he inherited electorally. The fact he has stuck to his time table, which is there for a reason, gives me hope that he might know what he’s doing in terms of electoral strategy. That hasn’t been the case since Blair and Brown, alongside Campbell and the Demon Headmaster. Im glad he hasn’t buckled under the weight of those jabbering on about him not standing for anything. It was always the smart play to let the Tory party hurt itself. Then capitalise. He is doing that. Still some complain, but it’s tribal not logical. 

[sir roger]

8 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The point is that Starmer gave a speech in Gateshead yesterday, talking about the kind of thing that Labour will do.  I think this tweet - openly promising to strengthen workers' rights - is also a step in the right direction.

 

It seems daft to slag Starmer off for not doing stuff, just as he's starting to do it.

To use an old banking term ‘ words and figures differ’ here on what happened when the RMT needed support.

[sir roger]

And even more so with BA staff

[Gnasher]

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

 

Oh well. 

 

 

[Creator Supreme]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Oh well. 

 

 

So let me get this straight, Labour whipped for its Lords to abstain on a vote to provide free school meals to pupils from poorer households?

 

Have I got that right?

[Gnasher]

 

 

Oh Gawd.

 

[Gnasher]

Here's Rach with a bucketful of ice cold water. Shame see can't stay in Chelsea permanently.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/12/labour-to-pledge-ironclad-discipline-with-public-finances?s=09