Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

She's just a useful scapegoat for when Corbyn doesn't win the election.

Come off it. She is a liar. Has she ever presented any evidence that Corbyn is racist or anti-semitic? Ever? Anything of substance? He should be suing her for slander. 

 

 

I've just seen that Jo Swinsons husbands business receives millions from the EU. No wonder she is so anti-brexit.

[moof]

Besides, it’s all fantasy stuff. Labour are not going to oust their overwhelmingly well supported leader 6 weeks out from a general election. 

[RedKnight]

Well you'll get this question answered one way or another by this election. He either wins and becomes PM or they don't and he'll likely step down.

[moof]

Basing a political strategy around trying to persuade lemmings who read shit like “Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser” in the daily mail and fucking believe it, is a ridiculously bad idea, imo. 

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Come off it. She is a liar. Has she ever presented any evidence that Corbyn is racist or anti-semitic? Ever? Anything of substance? He should be suing her for slander. 

 

I've just seen that Jo Swinsons husbands business receives millions from the EU. No wonder she is so anti-brexit.

 

I've seen mountains of evidence about antisemitism in Labour, but we'd just be treading over old ground. The very least you can do is wait for the EHRC investigation to finish.

 

Her "husband's business" is a German non-profit NGO that he works for which tackles corruption across the globe. I believe the term you use is "smears"...

[moof]

When is the EHRC investigating claims of racism against the other parties, btw?

[Bjornebye]

8 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I've seen mountains of evidence about antisemitism in Labour, but we'd just be treading over old ground. The very least you can do is wait for the EHRC investigation to finish.

 

Her "husband's business" is a German non-profit NGO that he works for which tackles corruption across the globe. I believe the term you use is "smears"...

Labour or Corbyn? Mountains? You haven't. 

 

Aah right so he doesn't take any sort of salary. Got it. Thumbs up SD. Mind you she takes money off fracking companies so maybe he can work for free. 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Labour or Corbyn? Mountains? You haven't. 

 

Aah right so he doesn't take any sort of salary. Got it. Thumbs up SD. Mind you she takes money off fracking companies so maybe he can work for free. 

 

There are literally new cases every day. 

 

I'm sure he gets a wage from his job, like most people. But he will still have that job whether or not Britain leaves the EU, so your smear doesn't even make sense.

[Barrington Womble]

I agree with @JohnnyH point of view. I know loads of people who traditionally support labour, but are just not having him. I was with someone last night who was astonished with me that I will vote labour at this election. He voted labour all his life till the last election. He's convinced Corbyn is unsafe for office and there's no persuading him otherwise. It doesn't matter if he's right or wrong, the point is Corbyn is just a deeply unpopular man with most of the people outside the half a million Labour party members. 

 

This brings me to the other point that was raised, is that reason enough to get rid of Corbyn? I see it like this. The party members are perfectly entitled to have who they want to lead the party. But as a member myself, my view is this. A Johnson led government for 5 years is completely intolerable to me. The best leader of the Labour party for me is one who can carry labour to victory, or at least enough seats to form some type of left wing coalition and banish Johnson to history. I don't believe Corbyn can do that. But it is clearly too late to do anything about that now. Labour just absolutely can't change leader during an election campaign. 

 

As it stands today, I think my best hope is the split in the votes stops Johnson being able to form a government. This will then probably mean another election within a few months and by which time, maybe labour can find a leader that can please the left of the party without frightening off lots of core voters... And maybe even manage to pick up a lot of floating voters.

 

The idea of a Johnson government makes me sick to the core. We have to stop him.  

[moof]

If you think the problem will go away with Corbyn, your analysis is wrong - quite simply 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

The more pertinent question is is there mountains of evidence about antisemitism in Labour or rather is there mountains of evidence about "antisemitism" in Labour? 

[Bjornebye]

33 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

There are literally new cases every day. 

 

I'm sure he gets a wage from his job, like most people. But he will still have that job whether or not Britain leaves the EU, so your smear doesn't even make sense.

Against Corbyn? Go on. Show me the 3 cases from this week. 

 

Smear? Ok so its just been plucked out of thin air about Swinsons husband. Yes of course. 

[Strontium]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Against Corbyn? Go on. Show me the 3 cases from this week. 

 

Smear? Ok so its just been plucked out of thin air about Swinsons husband. Yes of course. 

 

I'm talking about examples of antisemitism in Labour. New cases every day.

 

The thing about Swinson's husband is just risible.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I'm talking about examples of antisemitism in Labour. New cases every day.

 

The thing about Swinson's husband is just risible.

Ok we were talking about Corbyn. But ok. So the 3 new cases this week since Monday - go. 

[Dougie Do'ins]

45 minutes ago, moof said:

If you think the problem will go away with Corbyn, your analysis is wrong - quite simply 

So what the way forward if the same problems happen to the next Labour leader and so on ? How is the problem solved ?

[moof]

Just now, Dougie Do'ins said:

So what the way forward if the same problems happen to the next Labour leader and so on ? How is the problem solved ?

Don’t know about solved but the fight has to be against capitalism, against the elite establishment, against corporate media, against political corruption - emphasising the working people, emphasising the wasted potential in this country, emphasising the NHS, the amazing policies labour are coming out with on a near weekly basis, emphasising the impact of climate change and being honest about how to address that. And above all, inspire a mass movement of people in order to carry this message of change, because nothing gets done without that movement. 
 

it might not work, but we’re at a fork in the road with this neoliberal experiment. We can carry on doing what we’ve been doing for the past 50 years and watch society fall into oblivion or we can try and force impactful change to the entire structures of power. 
 

I’m optimistic that we can build a better future 

[Dougie Do'ins]

How much could Labour's nationalisation plan cost?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50046329

[Dougie Do'ins]

6 minutes ago, moof said:

Don’t know about solved but the fight has to be against capitalism, against the elite establishment, against corporate media, against political corruption - emphasising the working people, emphasising the wasted potential in this country, emphasising the NHS, the amazing policies labour are coming out with on a near weekly basis, emphasising the impact of climate change and being honest about how to address that. And above all, inspire a mass movement of people in order to carry this message of change, because nothing gets done without that movement. 
 

it might not work, but we’re at a fork in the road with this neoliberal experiment. We can carry on doing what we’ve been doing for the past 50 years and watch society fall into oblivion or we can try and force impactful change to the entire structures of power. 
 

I’m optimistic that we can build a better future 

The only way any of that happens is if the elite are in fear of the masses. Sadly, and as I said in the Working Class thread, just aint going to happen.  

[moof]

1 minute ago, Dougie Do'ins said:

The only way any of that happens is if the elite are in fear of the masses. Sadly, and as I said in the Working Class thread, just aint going to happen.  

They definitely are in fear of the masses. Which is why they are desperate for Corbyn’s labour to fail and regress to a milquetoast centrist liberal party

[Bjornebye]

39 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I'm talking about examples of antisemitism in Labour. New cases every day.

 

The thing about Swinson's husband is just risible.

 

37 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Ok we were talking about Corbyn. But ok. So the 3 new cases this week since Monday - go. 

Didn't think so. 

[Bjornebye]

Lies then. Knew it. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Imagine if Corbyn reacted as Johnson did... 

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/ross-england-boris-johnson-sacked-17172254

[Scooby Dudek]

2 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

 

All fair comment. 

 

But the main crux of my point is that it seems Corbyn is a figure that is not drawing the party support together. It seems to me (from the outside looking in) that Labour has virtually no chance of success in a GE under him.  So why persist?  It seems some people support Corbyn above Labour almost?  Would it not be best served to have a leader people can't accuse of being an anti-Semite or racist (as preposterous as that sounds when levelled at Corbyn) and have one that generally people who hate the Tories can get behind?

You yourself state it is preposterous to accuse Corbyn of being an anti-Semite or racist, yet they have accused him for 4 years. 

 

There is the problem for me, any Labour leader who doesn't fall in line will just get lies thrown at them. No left leader will ever be allowed to be acceptable.

 

I would rather point out, judge me by my enemies, not my friends. If the Sun and Mail are having a go, you must be doing something right. 

[JohnnyH]

3 hours ago, moof said:

If you think the problem will go away with Corbyn, your analysis is wrong - quite simply 

So Labour just stick with him and lose?

[JohnnyH]

1 hour ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I would rather point out, judge me by my enemies, not my friends. If the Sun and Mail are having a go, you must be doing something right. 

All well and good, but the Sun is the most popular paper in Britain. That’s a massive part of the problem. If they don’t want you to be liked, you won’t be liked.