Lucas

[Guest PurpleNose]

You've done it now.

 

Hope so.

[Funkasy]

Is there anywhere i can see stats how many times Lucas has been man of the match ? voted on lfc.tv or somewhere else?

[Royal Family]

Agree with the first three paragraphs, every midfielder should be able to pass the ball, but Alonso is not a luxury player. He has a range of passing possibly only rivalled by Xavi and Pirlo, and he's capable of doing the defensive work for a very good team.

 

I'm happy with Lucas as our deepest midfielder. He can do a similar role to that of Busquets at Barcelona. They certainly favour his type of player to Mascherano.

 

The very best teams don't need tough tacking, fast, strong central midfielders. If you're dominant in possession, and press as a unit to force mistakes, its just not neccessary. More important that they read the game well and can pass the ball.

 

Hmmm - not sure about that at all. Most important cog in the France 98 World Cup team? Deschamps. In the all-conquering Arsenal teams? Viera then Gilberto Silva, who is the one player Wenger admits he still has never replaced adequately. You have to have a player in there who can put the boot in, win back possession, harry the opposition - and (yes) pass it too. Which is where Sissoko and Masch fell down.

 

My other point is that Lucas isn't good enough in a central TWO. It depends on the tactics we are going to play but if you play with Carroll and Suarez and at least one proper wide man, I would have thought there's only space for two in the centre?

[gaz181]

Lucas is better than Jean-Michel Ferri.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Hmmm - not sure about that at all. Most important cog in the France 98 World Cup team? Deschamps. In the all-conquering Arsenal teams? Viera then Gilberto Silva, who is the one player Wenger admits he still has never replaced adequately. You have to have a player in there who can put the boot in, win back possession, harry the opposition - and (yes) pass it too. Which is where Sissoko and Masch fell down.

 

My other point is that Lucas isn't good enough in a central TWO. It depends on the tactics we are going to play but if you play with Carroll and Suarez and at least one proper wide man, I would have thought there's only space for two in the centre?

 

I'n not sure that Deschamps or Gilberto are your archetypal tough tackling, quick, strong, tall, holding midfielders. For both players their best qualities were how well they read play, positioned themselves, and passed the ball. Lucas is actually the player Brazil have selected to replace Gilberto, so possibly they see that they share qualities.

 

As for the bit in the bold, I don't think anyone is at the highest level. Including Gerrard, Alonso, maybe even Xavi. Good teams simply don't play two in the centre of midfield, because you'll get overrun. If you play two in midfield then you need cloggers like Reo-Coker, Cattermole, Henry etc. Because you're expecting, setting your team up tactically infact, to not have the ball.

 

A team requires players to stick the boot in because they're shit in possession.

 

There are plenty of options that can allow us to have more than two in the centre. As we have absolutely no out and out wingers at the club we could play 4-3-2-1,

 

Gerrard Lucas Meireles

Maxi Suarez

Carroll

 

or 4-1-3-2,

 

Lucas

Gerrard Meireles Maxi

Suarez Carroll

 

or 4-3-3, with out to in wide forwards (someone for the right would have to be signed),

 

Gerrard Lucas Meireles

A.Nother Carroll Suarez

 

Plenty of quality teams play without conventional wingers. Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan etc

 

There is absolutely no reason why it can't work in this league. Chelsea have made a diamond formation work in the recent past. United's team in 2008 had Rooney and Tevez drifting all over the pitch, dragging defenders everywhere, giving Ronaldo space, no-one was really playing as a winger. Arsenal tend to get their width from fullbacks, Walcott is usually a hinderence to them. The one player who isn't on the same way length as everyone else.

 

I'd hate to see us waste loads of money on someone like A.Young, because I think it can only take you to a certain level.

[betterman]

I'n not sure that Deschamps or Gilberto are your archetypal tough tackling, quick, strong, tall, holding midfielders. For both players their best qualities were how well they read play, positioned themselves, and passed the ball. Lucas is actually the player Brazil have selected to replace Gilberto, so possibly they see that they share qualities.

 

As for the bit in the bold, I don't think anyone is at the highest level. Including Gerrard, Alonso, maybe even Xavi. Good teams simply don't play two in the centre of midfield, because you'll get overrun. If you play two in midfield then you need cloggers like Reo-Coker, Cattermole, Henry etc. Because you're expecting, setting your team up tactically infact, to not have the ball.

 

A team requires players to stick the boot in because they're shit in possession.

 

There are plenty of options that can allow us to have more than two in the centre. As we have absolutely no out and out wingers at the club we could play 4-3-2-1,

 

Gerrard Lucas Meireles

Maxi Suarez

Carroll

 

or 4-1-3-2,

 

Lucas

Gerrard Meireles Maxi

Suarez Carroll

 

or 4-3-3, with out to in wide forwards (someone for the right would have to be signed),

 

Gerrard Lucas Meireles

A.Nother Carroll Suarez

 

Plenty of quality teams play without conventional wingers. Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan etc

 

There is absolutely no reason why it can't work in this league. Chelsea have made a diamond formation work in the recent past. United's team in 2008 had Rooney and Tevez drifting all over the pitch, dragging defenders everywhere, giving Ronaldo space, no-one was really playing as a winger. Arsenal tend to get their width from fullbacks, Walcott is usually a hinderence to them. The one player who isn't on the same way length as everyone else.

 

I'd hate to see us waste loads of money on someone like A.Young, because I think it can only take you to a certain level.

 

Andy Andy Andy!

[Code]

The point that he was making is that a premiership midfield does not necessarily need one-dimensional players who are pure destroyers or pure playmakers, and that you are better off having players who can do a bit of everything.

 

 

Personally I`d rather have a player who is good at something, even if its only one tiny thing, like Mascherano, instead of one who is not really good at anything like Lucas.

[Anubis]

So now Lucas is a better player than Alonso.

 

Pure magic this.

 

Aha. Code's Alonso Detector goes into meltdown.

[Hades]

Personally I`d rather have a player who is good at something, even if its only one tiny thing, like Mascherano, instead of one who is not really good at anything like Lucas.

 

Imo it's fucking bullshit that Mascherano is not as well-rounded as Lucas. It reminded me of those debates where people would argue that Ronaldo was more well rounded than Messi and ergo a better player.

 

"Well rounded" is a nonsense term. In football there is only effectiveness. Xavi has it, Iniesta has it, Alonso has it, Masch had it. Lucas does not.

[Royal Family]

I think it all depends on what we are aspiring to be as a club. At the moment we are not a Top Four team playing with Lucas, Gerrard and Raul in the centre, and yet - as always at our club - whenever you suggest we could upgrade on ANY of our players, you get forceful reactions defending individuals and praising them to the skies. That applies to Lucas. It most definitely applied to Insua and Aquilani last year. Even to Johnson and Skrtel.

 

I think Lucas is a useful squad option, but he would not be in my first XI week in, week out. It's a position where we can upgrade, and if we CAN upgrade in the summer, I hope people will support that.

[That fella]

[Captain]

Personally I`d rather have a player who is good at something, even if its only one tiny thing, like Mascherano, instead of one who is not really good at anything like Lucas.

 

Like Babel then, who's fucking ace at running really fast?

[Guest PurpleNose]

Like Babel then, who's fucking ace at running really fast?

 

Or John Carew, who's...er...really tall?

[Guest San Don]

Lucas has improved significantly this season and even the latter part of last season. I just think people are not giving him the credit he deserves now and instead, its give a dog a bad name etc.

 

He had a great game against chelshit and was very good against wigan. Sure, we can improve a number of positions in the team and it will be interesting to see if the King buys a replacement or not.

[KopOut]

Why cos I mention Dalglish? The facts are still the same. He is the slowest player we have ever had, He makes Ruddock look like Linford Christie.

 

My heart sinks everytime he goes near the ball and I brace myself for the worse.

 

Should not be like that with Liverpool players

 

Thats a bit harsh..Kenny is 60 this year you know.

[smilezzz]

Lucas Lieva = the next Jeremy Toulalan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But not nearly as cool...

[Unrighteous]

Lucas Lieva = the next Jeremy Toulalan

But not nearly as cool...

 

Toulalan has his old man strength already...

[Mike D]

[RobbieOR]

Or John Carew, who's...er...really tall?

 

You cant be good at being tall, Carew is good at scoring goals. oh wait.

[Gym Beglin]

Lucas is the shittest name ever for a Brazilian footballer, that's his major downfall.

If he was called Hermaphro, or Destructico then you'd be in love with him.

 

The only possible reason that Alonso is included in conversations about Xavi, Iniesta, and Fabregas is because he's Spanish. In terms of footballing ability and effectiveness, those three are in a different league to Xabi.

His biggest problem was and always will be mobility and athleticism, and this is why he was often ineffective for us in the middle of the park against relatively poor midfields from time to time, and it's also why he looked so much better once Mascherano was partnering him. People love to remember his last season with us as being some sort of barometer for his success, but that was far and away his best season with us, he actually put in two very average years before that.

Lovely to watch during those two years, but ultimately we missed something in the middle, a dynamic player who could compete with headless chickens like Papa Bouba Diop and Reo Coker. Masch was the solution to that, not Alonso.

 

So before you go getting all high and mighty about Lucas being inferior to Alonso, I put it to you that Alonso is by no means a complete Premiership midfielder, and I fully backed Rafa when he wanted him out. It's taking sides of whiny twats like Alonso that got us into this mess in the first place. He wasn't pulling his weight for two years and Rafa wanted Barry in, we should have backed Rafa for that but instead there was a hoard of Alonso-lovers sat under trees writing poems about floating 50 yard passes to Mark Gonzalez who got incensed about it and turned on Rafa.

What Rafa tried to do was right, it was in the best interests of the club to look elsewhere at other players. Barry would have been a great addition, very different to Alonso, but that's fine by me, I have reservations about his effectiveness anyway. He's got Ronaldo, Higuain, Di Maria, Benzema, Adebayour, Ozil, Kaka, in front of him now and they're still inferior to Barcelona. The big difference is not Messi, Ronaldo matches Messi for goals and assists, the big difference is Xavi vs Xabi, one pings balls, gets forward and scores goals whereas the other pings balls and sits and watches.

 

IF Mourinho is still at Madrid in the Summer, then I bet you he will replace Alonso, or at least bring in someone else to take his place in the starting XI.

In fact, Meireles is a perfect fit for Madrid and Mourinho, that's my big fear. But Essien, Fabregas, and Modric will all be looked at this Summer by Madrid in a bid to squeeze more goals out of their midfield.

[Royal Family]

. It's taking sides of whiny twats like Alonso that got us into this mess in the first place. He wasn't pulling his weight for two years and Rafa wanted Barry in, we should have backed Rafa for that but instead there was a hoard of Alonso-lovers sat under trees writing poems about floating 50 yard passes to Mark Gonzalez who got incensed about it and turned on Rafa.

What Rafa tried to do was right, it was in the best interests of the club to look elsewhere at other players. Barry would have been a great addition, very different to Alonso, but that's fine by me,

 

You fundamentally have a good point about Alonso - he didn't perform well for three seasons in my opinion, after a great first year and an imperious final year. I too supported Rafa when he was trying to move him on.

 

But you've - typically - overstated your case because of your blind faith in the former manager. he was trying to exchange him for GARETH BARRY AND was going to pay £6m for that dubious pleasure. Garth Barry is, was, always will be a one-paced yard-dog: he's shown that at international level (he was a laughing stock after the World Cup - a World Cup in which Xabi Alonso was a key cog in the winning team) and he's shown that for Manchester City, most of whose fans can't wait to shift him on.

 

Is it any wonder that fans became romantic about Alonso when Rafa's judgement on his replacemebnt was so flawed. If Rafa had targeted an appropriate player, I very much doubt there would have been many murmurs of discontent.

 

Gareth Barry. Roy Hodgson. We ARE knowledgeable fans on the whole, and we do KNOW when someone isn't of the required standard for Liverpool FC.

[Unrighteous]

You cant be good at being tall, Carew is good at scoring goals. oh wait.

 

Of course you can! I'm fucking boss at being tall.

[goatboy59]

You fundamentally have a good point about Alonso - he didn't perform well for three seasons in my opinion, after a great first year and an imperious final year. I too supported Rafa when he was trying to move him on.

 

But you've - typically - overstated your case because of your blind faith in the former manager. he was trying to exchange him for GARETH BARRY AND was going to pay £6m for that dubious pleasure. Garth Barry is, was, always will be a one-paced yard-dog: he's shown that at international level (he was a laughing stock after the World Cup - a World Cup in which Xabi Alonso was a key cog in the winning team) and he's shown that for Manchester City, most of whose fans can't wait to shift him on.

 

Is it any wonder that fans became romantic about Alonso when Rafa's judgement on his replacemebnt was so flawed. If Rafa had targeted an appropriate player, I very much doubt there would have been many murmurs of discontent.

 

Gareth Barry. Roy Hodgson. We ARE knowledgeable fans on the whole, and we do KNOW when someone isn't of the required standard for Liverpool FC.

 

Alonso didn't perform well in 05/06?

 

Honestly?

 

And when Rafa made the formation change in Feb 08 he was as important as Mascherano and Kuyt in the distinct improvement in form that caried on into 08/09.

 

When we played Lazio he was receiving standing ovations just for taking corners, and the chants were fairly loud for "stick Gareth Barry up your arse".

 

Not bad for someone who hadn't played well for three years! The less said about the decline after his departure the better.

 

I can't believe this misinformation is still being touted as fact.

[Glen C]

Lucas is a decent squad player but we need better if we want to go to tne next level. To be honest we are lacking in a few areas if we want to be a top 4 team next season. Both our flanks aren't good enough, defensive midfielder, left back and a dominant centre half. Also we need a lot more pace as our team is too slow which is why i think King kenny wants ashley young. I'd like to keep lucas as a squad player, but really he should only be backup to someone better. So should kuyt, maxi and johnson.

[silverlining]

Amazing.

 

There appears to be some cabbages on here that think Lucas is a better player than Alonso, however, I would guess that 95% of Liverpool fans would prefer to have Xabi in this Liverpool team than Lucas.

 

Obviously on SQUAWK that would be close to 50%. But they're all fucking mental.