Interesting piece in Mirror Blog/ "Fat Spanish Waiter"

[Randy Marsh]

Why real Liverpool fans won't desert the troubled ship like the glory hunters calling for Rafa's head

 

By Richard Buxton in Liverpool Fans Blog

Published 18:58 20/12/09

 

Anyone who has walked down Bold Street in the heart of Liverpool city centre will have noticed a large poster adorning the outer wall of the Burger King restaurant on the corner proclaiming 'the home of the Whopper'. Seasoned Liverpool supporters would argue that the sign would be more fitting if plastered across the exterior of Anfield.

 

With the Reds' failure to carry on where they finished last season, the club had to resort to marketing techniques frequently used by local rivals Everton by having to sell tickets for the match against Wigan over the counter at their official club store in the bustling Liverpool One shopping centre.

 

Given that this was the game where the club marked the 50th anniversary of Bill Shankly's arrival at the club, one would expect this to be a sell-out. Only 41,116 supporters, 800 of whom were travelling Latics fans, watched Rafael Benitez's side run out 2-1 winners in a nervy finish.

 

The reason for the reduced capacity crowd and the over-the-counter sales was because the people who normally occupy those additional few thousand seats don't care about Bill Shankly, or what he did for Liverpool.

 

Furthermore, they aren't going to travel to Merseyside on a cold Wednesday night in December for all the hot dogs in Anfield unless Manchester United or Chelsea are playing at L4. This is because Liverpool Football Club has become a victim of its own success - and success, like the Pied Piper of Hamelin, attracts more than its fair share of rats.

 

Many a glory-hunting rodent has strode up Walton Breck Road over the past five years as the club marched on to European finals and nerve-wracking title races but as soon as success dries up, they will spearhead the mass exodus out from Anfield. It happened in the latter days of Gerard Houllier’s reign and, given current events, it will happen during Benitez’s time.

 

They will crawl back to their familiar rocks of Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford once the good times stop rolling. However, they will be back, and in greater numbers once success returns, but real Liverpool supporters, regardless of their personal views on Benitez, will back the manager of the club to the hilt until he resigns or is sacked by a higher power.

 

It is not in their nature to pander to national radio hosts’ demands by calling for the manager to be sacked and replaced by Jose Mourinho, turning a very blind eye to the Reds’ financial plight and the small matter of Benitez’s £20million pay-off should he be dismissed before his contract expires.

 

Nor is it in their nature to call for the manager’s head on the Kop following a frustrating draw, dressed head-to-toe in a jester hat, a Superman cape and home shirt with ‘comical’ slogans on the back; El Sexy 69 and Crouchenko to name but two.

 

However, those who maintain that Benitez should be supported, even if he is making an absolute pig’s ear of the season due to stretched resources, are accused of being personal apologists for the Spaniard; further evidence, were it needed, that the modern football supporter has lost his way.

 

As Liverpool prepare for a strong winter of discontent, a banner which proclaimed: "it's easy to support a team when in glory, but to support a team when in struggle…shows your character" could not be more apt for those who will continue to support their football club through thick and thin.

 

Why <i>real</i> Liverpool fans won't desert the troubled ship like the glory hunters calling for Rafa's head - MirrorFootball.co.uk

 

I reckon thats a good piece to be honest, especially the last paragraph.

 

Regardless of whether you want Rafa or not, whilst he is still manager of this football club he should be backed 100%. To hear the tits ringing up cunts like fuckin Collymore slagging the club and the manager playing to the national audience, to hear the fuckin whoppers at the match and plenty of other arseholes calling our manager, the manager of Liverpool Football Club, "that fat spanish waiter"...... words fail me. "Fat Spanish Waiter" an insult originating from the blueshite and spreading to most other clubs' fans in the land, now being used by "our own" on our own. It fuckin stinks. It's an issue that has wound me up for a while now. Who needs enemies when we have our so called "own supporters" doing their job for them?

 

I have no problem with someone who think's Rafa's times up, and backs that with rational logical reasons. No problem whatsoever. I may not agree with you, but the way things have panned out these past few months it's inevitable there will be a number who think enough's enough. The football we are playing is dire, the motivation seems non existent, and the dip which I thought we would have passed out of weeks ago has turned in to a steep plumet. Times are bad and in all honesty I just don't know where and when the fuck it's going to pick up as looking at the players out there now, half of them wouldnt get a game for Tranmere. But it will pick up some time, that's what I always try to continue to believe anyway as I'm an optimist.

 

But the issue for me is how us as fans behave in times like these. It's all well and good lapping up the "12th man" tag when the big games come along. But what about now, when times are hard? As I said, my issue is not with those who believe Rafa's had his time. It's with the fuckin idiots who resort to insulting him and the club in public, at the match, on the tele, in bars, on the radio, on facebook, wherever. I don't get it. There are players who I believe should be no where near the club, but whilst they are in the red shirt they get my support. The same with the manager. The manager won us a European Cup for fuck sake. Whether you have faith in him or not, he still deserves our respect untill the end. At 99.999% of other club's he'd have a job for life and a statue in his honour. This club is different I know, we are LUCKY enough to be built on success. And that mean's a smaller margin for error than at pretty much every other club in football. But still, the achievements shouldn't be forgotten. It's about respect, and I'm sorry but to see a European and FA Cup winning manager, and one who took us the closest we've been to a League title in 20years, being reduced to no more than a blueshite generated insult by some of our supposed support fuckin disgusts me.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Randy Marsh

[Ian Sea]

The thing that will finally get Rafa the sack will be falling attendances. It's what did for Houllier and what will do for Benitez.

[trefoil]

great article that, he's a good lad Buxton knows what he's talking about

[23_Carra_Gold]

That piece is spot on.

 

I'll have a level headed rational debate with someone who wants Rafa out. I'll state my case, he'll state his and when either of us raise a good point we'll admit it. At the end of the discussion we'll shake hands and go support our football team.

 

It is the horrible bellend's who get wound up and raise their voice simply because you have the bare faced cheek to hold a different opinion to them who need fucking off.

[Brownie]

A lot of the people who go completely over the top about Rafa are not really those who we should be listening to, in my opnion. I see so many people losing their rag over a lad with about 10 posts coming on and slating Rafa and I find it bizarre.

 

I only tend to get riled by the people I respect on here because i've read their stuff for years and have some kind of investment in it, so to speak.

 

I like to think that most of our fans are balanced in their views.

[trefoil]

A lot of the people who go completely over the top about Rafa are not really those who we should be listening to, in my opnion. I see so many people losing their rag over a lad with about 10 posts coming on and slating Rafa and I find it bizarre.

 

I only tend to get riled by the people I respect on here because i've read their stuff for years and have some kind of investment in it, so to speak.

 

I like to think that most of our fans are balanced in their views.

 

I'd like to think people who chatted sense would be listened to even though they didn't have many posts though... I only say that because I'm on 99 an hate being ignored :wallbutt: ;)

[Brownie]

I'd like to think people who chatted sense would be listened to even though they didn't have many posts though... I only say that because I'm on 99 an hate being ignored :wallbutt: ;)

 

Definitely. You earn the respect by giving your opnion and backing it up with examples that make sense.

 

It's about quality not quantity.

 

Everyone has to start somewhere.

[23_Carra_Gold]

A lot of the people who go completely over the top about Rafa are not really those who we should be listening to, in my opnion. I see so many people losing their rag over a lad with about 10 posts coming on and slating Rafa and I find it bizarre.

 

I only tend to get riled by the people I respect on here because i've read their stuff for years and have some kind of investment in it, so to speak.

 

I like to think that most of our fans are balanced in their views.

 

They aren't though are they? Most of their thought process goes like this...'The clubs doing badly but I want it to do well. I don't really understand why we're doing badly...must be the manager. Sack him. I'll shout louder then everybody else who opposes me'.

 

And there is absolutely no debating with these people, people who don't make allowances for injuries (such as the Yossi substitution shite a few weeks back). My mates think I'm something of a 'Rafapologist' when I amn't. I just don't offer 100% negativity every time the mans name is brought up, I try to offer a balance and at times feel like I'm the only fucking one.

 

I know somebody who seemed happy at the fact Rafa's name wasn't being sung as loud as it had been in the past. How fucked up is that? Happy that fans have nothing to sing about.

[23CARRAGOLD]

Its getting worse by the week, some people are reverting to "fat Spanish cunt" and other such stuff. Way out of order stuff like that. If people want him out then fine I've got no problem with you even though I have an opposing opinion to you.

 

To insult the man in the way I stated above is just plain out of order. Some of our support are an absolute disgrace. And its not 'the wools' as some lads would always blame it on. This is Scouse lads labelling him that. Some of them need to have a good look in the mirror, disgraceful behaviour.

[23_Carra_Gold]

Its getting worse by the week, some people are reverting to "fat Spanish cunt" and other such stuff. Way out of order stuff like that. If people want him out then fine I've got no problem with you even though I have an opposing opinion to you.

 

To insult the man in the way I stated above is just plain out of order. Some of our support are an absolute disgrace. And its not 'the wools' as some lads would always blame it on. This is Scouse lads labelling him that. Some of them need to have a good look in the mirror, disgraceful behaviour.

 

The man works every hour God, and his missus, allows. He works those hours at and for our football club.

 

To label somebody who works that hard for our Football Club a 'cunt' is bang out of order.

[trefoil]

speaking of fans being balanced in their views, I have this opinion that people would probably slate me for, but I reckon a lot of our fans want Mourinho as manager because they want to be liked by the press. What I mean is they see us being slagged off in the paper and on the tele at the moment and they hate it, and I know it does hurt like, but they saw how Mourinho was shagged by the press and they think that would be sound for us like... just a drunken opinion sorry

[23CARRAGOLD]

speaking of fans being balanced in their views, I have this opinion that people would probably slate me for, but I reckon a lot of our fans want Mourinho as manager because they want to be liked by the press. What I mean is they see us being slagged off in the paper and on the tele at the moment and they hate it, and I know it does hurt like, but they saw how Mourinho was shagged by the press and they think that would be sound for us like... just a drunken opinion sorry

 

And just how would the Yanks sell the club to him. We are in debt up to our eyeballs, we are now a club who has to sell to buy because any revenue made will be paying off interest, yes only interest, on a loan for a stadium of which we are still to see any progress.

 

If they're fans balanced in their views I wouldn't like to meet the ones who aren't balanced in their views.

 

I think a shortlist for next Liverpool manager, if god forbid we did bin Rafa, would go along the lines of:

 

Mark Hughes

Alan Curbishley

Steve McClaren

[trefoil]

And just how would the Yanks sell the club to him. We are in debt up to our eyeballs, we are now a club who has to sell to buy because any revenue made will be paying off interest, yes only interest, on a loan for a stadium of which we are still to see any progress.

 

If they're fans balanced in their views I wouldn't like to meet the ones who aren't balanced in their views.

 

I think a shortlist for next Liverpool manager, if god forbid we did bin Rafa, would go along the lines of:

 

Mark Hughes

Alan Curbishley

Steve McClaren

 

I dunno, I don't want Mourinho anyway just noticed a lot of people do, it actually hurts me a bit when they talk about him in such a way that suggests he has some sort of tie to our club when in fact he was a cunt towards us

[Herp McDerp]

And just how would the Yanks sell the club to him. We are in debt up to our eyeballs, we are now a club who has to sell to buy because any revenue made will be paying off interest, yes only interest, on a loan for a stadium of which we are still to see any progress.

 

If they're fans balanced in their views I wouldn't like to meet the ones who aren't balanced in their views.

 

I think a shortlist for next Liverpool manager, if god forbid we did bin Rafa, would go along the lines of:

 

Mark Hughes

Alan Curbishley

Steve McClaren

Hodgson would piss all over that lot.

[23CARRAGOLD]

Hodgson would piss all over that lot.

 

Just signed a 5 year deal with Fulham. Aswell as the Rafa pay off how would we pay Fulham the compensation needed for a manager on a 5 year deal?

[Herp McDerp]

Fucknuts, I'm all out of ideas, first Mancini and now Hodgson. Well I guess we could always make a move for Domenech once he bombs France out of the WC.

[23CARRAGOLD]

Fucknuts, I'm all out of ideas, first Mancini and now Hodgson. Well I guess we could always make a move for Domenech once he bombs France out of the WC.

 

Just been checking what I said and it only says 'He has signed a new contract'. I remember it happening the other week and that just thought it was a 5, may be less like. But you can bet there was a big compo amount inserted by Fulham to cover their arses if he did get lifted by someone.

[rubberduckstyle]

Why real Liverpool fans won't desert the troubled ship like the glory hunters calling for Rafa's head

 

By Richard Buxton in Liverpool Fans Blog

Published 18:58 20/12/09

 

Anyone who has walked down Bold Street in the heart of Liverpool city centre will have noticed a large poster adorning the outer wall of the Burger King restaurant on the corner proclaiming 'the home of the Whopper'. Seasoned Liverpool supporters would argue that the sign would be more fitting if plastered across the exterior of Anfield.

 

With the Reds' failure to carry on where they finished last season, the club had to resort to marketing techniques frequently used by local rivals Everton by having to sell tickets for the match against Wigan over the counter at their official club store in the bustling Liverpool One shopping centre.

 

Given that this was the game where the club marked the 50th anniversary of Bill Shankly's arrival at the club, one would expect this to be a sell-out. Only 41,116 supporters, 800 of whom were travelling Latics fans, watched Rafael Benitez's side run out 2-1 winners in a nervy finish.

 

The reason for the reduced capacity crowd and the over-the-counter sales was because the people who normally occupy those additional few thousand seats don't care about Bill Shankly, or what he did for Liverpool.

 

Furthermore, they aren't going to travel to Merseyside on a cold Wednesday night in December for all the hot dogs in Anfield unless Manchester United or Chelsea are playing at L4. This is because Liverpool Football Club has become a victim of its own success - and success, like the Pied Piper of Hamelin, attracts more than its fair share of rats.

 

Many a glory-hunting rodent has strode up Walton Breck Road over the past five years as the club marched on to European finals and nerve-wracking title races but as soon as success dries up, they will spearhead the mass exodus out from Anfield. It happened in the latter days of Gerard Houllier’s reign and, given current events, it will happen during Benitez’s time.

 

They will crawl back to their familiar rocks of Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford once the good times stop rolling. However, they will be back, and in greater numbers once success returns, but real Liverpool supporters, regardless of their personal views on Benitez, will back the manager of the club to the hilt until he resigns or is sacked by a higher power.

 

It is not in their nature to pander to national radio hosts’ demands by calling for the manager to be sacked and replaced by Jose Mourinho, turning a very blind eye to the Reds’ financial plight and the small matter of Benitez’s £20million pay-off should he be dismissed before his contract expires.

 

Nor is it in their nature to call for the manager’s head on the Kop following a frustrating draw, dressed head-to-toe in a jester hat, a Superman cape and home shirt with ‘comical’ slogans on the back; El Sexy 69 and Crouchenko to name but two.

 

However, those who maintain that Benitez should be supported, even if he is making an absolute pig’s ear of the season due to stretched resources, are accused of being personal apologists for the Spaniard; further evidence, were it needed, that the modern football supporter has lost his way.

 

As Liverpool prepare for a strong winter of discontent, a banner which proclaimed: "it's easy to support a team when in glory, but to support a team when in struggle…shows your character" could not be more apt for those who will continue to support their football club through thick and thin.

 

Why <i>real</i> Liverpool fans won't desert the troubled ship like the glory hunters calling for Rafa's head - MirrorFootball.co.uk

 

I reckon thats a good piece to be honest, especially the last paragraph.

 

Regardless of whether you want Rafa or not, whilst he is still manager of this football club he should be backed 100%. To hear the tits ringing up cunts like fuckin Collymore slagging the club and the manager playing to the national audience, to hear the fuckin whoppers at the match and plenty of other arseholes calling our manager, the manager of Liverpool Football Club, "that fat spanish waiter"...... words fail me. "Fat Spanish Waiter" an insult originating from the blueshite and spreading to most other clubs' fans in the land, now being used by "our own" on our own. It fuckin stinks. It's an issue that has wound me up for a while now. Who needs enemies when we have our so called "own supporters" doing their job for them?

 

I have no problem with someone who think's Rafa's times up, and backs that with rational logical reasons. No problem whatsoever. I may not agree with you, but the way things have panned out these past few months it's inevitable there will be a number who think enough's enough. The football we are playing is dire, the motivation seems non existent, and the dip which I thought we would have passed out of weeks ago has turned in to a steep plumet. Times are bad and in all honesty I just don't know where and when the fuck it's going to pick up as looking at the players out there now, half of them wouldnt get a game for Tranmere. But it will pick up some time, that's what I always try to continue to believe anyway as I'm an optimist.

 

But the issue for me is how us as fans behave in times like these. It's all well and good lapping up the "12th man" tag when the big games come along. But what about now, when times are hard? As I said, my issue is not with those who believe Rafa's had his time. It's with the fuckin idiots who resort to insulting him and the club in public, at the match, on the tele, in bars, on the radio, on facebook, wherever. I don't get it. There are players who I believe should be no where near the club, but whilst they are in the red shirt they get my support. The same with the manager. The manager won us a European Cup for fuck sake. Whether you have faith in him or not, he still deserves our respect untill the end. At 99.999% of other club's he'd have a job for life and a statue in his honour. This club is different I know, we are LUCKY enough to be built on success. And that mean's a smaller margin for error than at pretty much every other club in football. But still, the achievements shouldn't be forgotten. It's about respect, and I'm sorry but to see a European and FA Cup winning manager, and one who took us the closest we've been to a League title in 20years, being reduced to no more than a blueshite generated insult by some of our supposed support fuckin disgusts me.

 

Well said, I totally agree. It's starting to get out of hand. Call me a fool but I am still 100% behind the manager. I will admit though his loyalty to players like Carragher, Lucas and Kuyt and his persistence with this 4-2-3-1 formation in every game, home or away, regardless of the opposition will lead to his downfall unless there is significant investment in the team and we all know that will not be happening anytime soon.

 

Sad state of affairs...

[halewood pete]

Its keeping me awake at night.I dont know the answer

[Tom R]

They aren't though are they? Most of their thought process goes like this...'The clubs doing badly but I want it to do well. I don't really understand why we're doing badly...must be the manager. Sack him. I'll shout louder then everybody else who opposes me'.

 

And there is absolutely no debating with these people, people who don't make allowances for injuries (such as the Yossi substitution shite a few weeks back). My mates think I'm something of a 'Rafapologist' when I amn't. I just don't offer 100% negativity every time the mans name is brought up, I try to offer a balance and at times feel like I'm the only fucking one.

 

I know somebody who seemed happy at the fact Rafa's name wasn't being sung as loud as it had been in the past. How fucked up is that? Happy that fans have nothing to sing about.

 

Repped for inventing the word "amn't".

 

It's always puzzled me that one.

Do not is don't, have not is haven't, can not is can't. But will not is won't (?), and until today there was no suitable abbreviation for am not.

 

Once there was Shakespeare and now, 23 Carra Gold, there is you.

 

Stand tall, my man. Stand tall.

[Barrington Womble]

The man works every hour God, and his missus, allows. He works those hours at and for our football club.

 

To label somebody who works that hard for our Football Club a 'cunt' is bang out of order.

 

I don't see any relation to how many hours he puts into his job and if he's a cunt. It's perfectly possible to be both and in my experience, the more hours he spends in work with no life at all, the bigger cunt he's likely to be. Just about the biggest cunts I have met in life have all been the type who do 60-80 hours every week.

[kop]

Repped for inventing the word "amn't".

 

It's always puzzled me that one.

Do not is don't, have not is haven't, can not is can't. But will not is won't (?), and until today there was no suitable abbreviation for am not.

 

Once there was Shakespeare and now, 23 Carra Gold, there is you.

 

Stand tall, my man. Stand tall.

 

Fuck offn't is good aswell. It leaves the reciever with the possibility to believe it's fuck off...not, when it really is fuck off cunt. I think it's a really diplomatic way of telling someone to fuck off and it could ease the mood on here in these christmas times.

[Randy Marsh]

I don't see any relation to how many hours he puts into his job and if he's a cunt. It's perfectly possible to be both and in my experience, the more hours he spends in work with no life at all, the bigger cunt he's likely to be. Just about the biggest cunts I have met in life have all been the type who do 60-80 hours every week.

 

Surely though, someone working so hard, whether you agree with him or not, to do what he thinks his best for the good of the club cannot be labelled a cunt, or a "fat spanish waiter" / "fat spanish cunt" as he's becoming more commonly known by some of our supporters.

[Tom R]

I still like rafa as a man, most of the time. I'd still love to see him make it work, but he quite simply won't. Because he can't.

He just doesn't have the positive approach required to do it and he never, ever, ever learns from his many mistakes. he just makes them again and again and again.

 

But when I look at pictures of him when he joined us; a fresh faced, young manager, full of life and enthusiasm, compared to what I see now; a grey, red faced man with bags under his eyes and lines on his forehead, I can clearly see what the pressures of managing this great club has done to him and the strain it has put on him personally.

 

The man clearly cares greatly, but that just isn't enough I'm afraid.

 

That's the positives.

 

...But then there are the times when i do feel lke getting personal with him.

When he selects players like Dossena or voronin or picks a negative line up against shit opposition, and then tries to justify it, never making an apology and never, ever, ever taking any of the blame himself, and very often even claiming that we were better team when CLEARLY we were fucking appalling - THAT is when it feels personal.

The man is insulting my intelligence and he's quite frankly taking the fucking piss out of me and all of us.

 

So, whilst I personally haven't really resorted to making it personal myself, I can at least understand the twisted rationale behind some of our fans behaviour towards him of late.

 

Put it this way, if I'd travelled to Portsmouth (and thank fuck I didn't!!) then I would probably be calling him a fucking cunt, and I'd probably be able to easily justify it to myself as well.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Tom R

[shaunstrudwick]

i resent this notion that only the 'glory hunters' want Rafa out - i have followed LFC since i was 10 years old (i am 35 now) and have been through the highs and the lows

 

but i can see that it is blatantly evident that Rafa has lost the dressing room - the signs were there after Birmingham and have continued through to Saturday's performance - therefore - for me - there is no point in him continuing if the players have lost their faith in their manager

 

i know it can be argued that the off-field financial situation has hampered his transfer plans this summer but he still brought in nearly £40m worth of footballing talent to replace the departing Alonso - and so that can not be an excuse - in my opinion - for his shitehouise tactics that have been the hallmark of this season so far

 

more than at any other time in his tenure he is proving himself as a manager that is too afraid to lose a football match (and this has always been his tendancy anyway) and he is deliberately sending out a team to 'control' (another word for defend imo) the game for 90 mins and maybe nick a goal

 

in my opinion you can not approach football matches with that mentality because you will end up losing in the long run

 

he would have more of my respect if he put out a team to try and win a football match in style - but that is not the Rafa way

 

and i personally have had enough of his ways