Pele has passed away

[gkmacca]

Thanks to Carlos Nascimento, Head of the Brazilian team delegation at the 1966 World Cup in England, members of The Beatles were prevented from meeting Pele during his stay in Liverpool

 

Already a world football star, Pele arrived at the England tournament much-loved by the press and fans alike. The Beatles, already internationally successful singers, tried to meet the Brazilian, but were blocked by Nascimento.

 

However, the king was not immediately aware of Carlos’ refusal. Instead, he found out what happened almost ten years later, in 1975, when he was playing in America for the New York Cosmos. 

 

Pele was taking an English class at a language school, and on one occasion he met John Lennon, who was studying Japanese at the same institution. They would talk in between classes. The singer recalled the incident where he and his bandmates were prevented from meeting the player in person.

 

“Look, there’s a history with the Beatles that only a few people know about. In 1966, at the World Cup, we were in Liverpool and the Beatles wanted to play for Pele. But Nascimento, who was a very strict guy, blocked it:  'Those hairy guys won't get in here, they aren’t going to play here, no way. Those kids aren’t going to make noise here,'" Pele said in an interview, "And John said, 'We loved football, and you, but they wouldn't let us play for you'".

[gkmacca]

14 hours ago, an tha said:

It is an era thing isn't it.

 

I am 50 and i have literally never seen Pele play - my lack of interest and frankly even respect for international football means i have taken next to zero interest in his exploits at world cups and he was done and dusted in all that before i was even born.

 

Therefore I personally have nothing to go on regarding Pele other than what I read - I find it difficult to believe many of the people raving about him know any more than i do though frankly. Someone needs to be a minimum of about 60-65 years of age to be able remember and properly evaluate the 1970 World Cup really (Pele's last I believe) and that means someone may have seen Pele what 4 or 5 times maybe on the telly....

 

So for me deffo an era thing. That isn't to say he wasn't great - it is just too long ago for most of us to be able to know/understand/appreciate.

 

 

 

 

It's true. It's like when people argue about where to place Billy Liddell in the rankings of LFC's greatest players. How can we know? But there's a lot of superficial stuff argued when comparing Pele to Maradona or Messi. Different eras, different weight of footballs, different competitions etc - it's no good ignoring all of that and just pointing out the later players had more tricks or whatever. From what I've read I suspect that when it comes to the distance between the greatest and the rest, the gap was greater in his time. 

[CapeRed]

1 hour ago, Frank Dacey said:

I was only 4 when the 58 world cup took place so remember nothing of it, but the clips I've seen suggest Pele was predominantly a goalscorer (6 in the 3 knock-out rounds). By 1970, his game had evolved and Jairzinho, who I agree was fantastic and, to me, came completely out of left-field, was like the Pele of 1958. I read this morning that Pele had 10 goal involvements in 1970, 4 goals and 6 assists. He set up Jairzinho for the winner in the group game against England and, memorably, Carlos Alberto for the 4th goal in the final.

You’re a year older than me Frank my first memory of the great one is 66 and the brutality of the opposition. The 70 team was just pure poetry led by , for me the best of all time.

[halewood pete]

[magicrat]

17 hours ago, an tha said:

It is an era thing isn't it.

 

I am 50 and i have literally never seen Pele play - my lack of interest and frankly even respect for international football means i have taken next to zero interest in his exploits at world cups and he was done and dusted in all that before i was even born.

 

Therefore I personally have nothing to go on regarding Pele other than what I read - I find it difficult to believe many of the people raving about him know any more than i do though frankly. Someone needs to be a minimum of about 60-65 years of age to be able remember and properly evaluate the 1970 World Cup really (Pele's last I believe) and that means someone may have seen Pele what 4 or 5 times maybe on the telly....

 

So for me deffo an era thing. That isn't to say he wasn't great - it is just too long ago for most of us to be able to know/understand/appreciate.

 

 

 

 

Agree to an extent . For me it was the 70 WC .  England as holders and the build and excitement for footie mad kids was unbelievable.  It was all going to be on TV and in COLOUR for the first time,  Personally it wasn't England in the end that grabbed my attention, it was Pele . Brazil then were unlike any other team I had ever seen and he just epitomised what they were all about.  I was too young to really remember much detail about the 66 tournament other than the final. I think Pele got crocked fairly early on but the thing was International football was on of the few times you got to see live games back then and there was precious little of that too other than  the home internationals . The FA cup final was the highlight of the year and even the league cup final was only screened the next day ! I think my point is that with so little live football stand out players resonated more with people , especially kids, than modern era footballers who get paid eye watering sums of money and whose lives are so remote from the likes of us . I cant relate to a Messi or Ronaldo on any emotional level but can watch and be entertained by their skill . I watched Pele as a kid in awe 

 

 

[Jurgen Knows]

3 hours ago, gkmacca said:

 

From what I've read I suspect that when it comes to the distance between the greatest and the rest, the gap was greater in his time. 

That actually goes against him in the GOAT debate. Many believe that the overall level of players at his time was not as high as it was at the times of Maradona and Messi, which made it easier for him to stand out.

[Arniepie]

said it before but there is a documentary on netflix,I should imagine they will put it back up now.Defo worth a watch.

[Duff Man]

Some beauties here.

 

 

[gkmacca]

2 hours ago, Jurgen Knows said:

That actually goes against him in the GOAT debate. Many believe that the overall level of players at his time was not as high as it was at the times of Maradona and Messi, which made it easier for him to stand out.

 

Not so sure about the "actually" there.

 

So Gerrard gets praised because he carried a poor team, whereas Dalglish tends to get downgraded in comparison because he was in a great team. Moving goalposts is one thing, but moving them again and again is another. I don't know how good Pele was, but the fact that he was out on his own at the time doesn't strike me as apodictic proof that he wasn't as good as more recent players.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 minute ago, gkmacca said:

 

Not so sure about the "actually" there.

 

So Gerrard gets praised because he carried a poor team, whereas Dalglish tends to get downgraded in comparison because he was in a great team. Moving goalposts is one thing, but moving them again and again is another. I don't know how good Pele was, but the fact that he was out on his own at the time doesn't strike me as apodictic proof that he wasn't as good as more recent players.

Quality use of words there. 

[Jurgen Knows]

22 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

 

So Gerrard gets praised because he carried a poor team, whereas Dalglish tends to get downgraded in comparison because he was in a great team.

I don’t think that’s the case at all. The point was about the overall quality of the game rather than his own team mates.
 

22 minutes ago, gkmacca said:

I don't know how good Pele was, but the fact that he was out on his own at the time doesn't strike me as apodictic proof that he wasn't as good as more recent players.

This goes without saying. There is no such thing as apodictic proof in the GOAT debate. This is why it will always be an open debate.

[House of Dirk]

On a simplistic basis of winning three world cups, he stands well ahead of everyone else.  

 

Quite rightly legend of the game, with a select crowd of honourable mentions.

[an tha]

3 hours ago, House of Dirk said:

On a simplistic basis of winning three world cups, he stands well ahead of everyone else.  

 

Quite rightly legend of the game, with a select crowd of honourable mentions.

I read somewherw he didn't feature in 1 of those world cups due to injury.

 

10 hours ago, magicrat said:

 

Agree to an extent . For me it was the 70 WC .  England as holders and the build and excitement for footie mad kids was unbelievable.  It was all going to be on TV and in COLOUR for the first time,  Personally it wasn't England in the end that grabbed my attention, it was Pele . Brazil then were unlike any other team I had ever seen and he just epitomised what they were all about.  I was too young to really remember much detail about the 66 tournament other than the final. I think Pele got crocked fairly early on but the thing was International football was on of the few times you got to see live games back then and there was precious little of that too other than  the home internationals . The FA cup final was the highlight of the year and even the league cup final was only screened the next day ! I think my point is that with so little live football stand out players resonated more with people , especially kids, than modern era footballers who get paid eye watering sums of money and whose lives are so remote from the likes of us . I cant relate to a Messi or Ronaldo on any emotional level but can watch and be entertained by their skill . I watched Pele as a kid in awe 

 

 

Yeah a very, very different time - and I can see how it would have all been so exciting back then and he was without doubt one of the stars of that era and i am sure it was all something quite unique at the time.

 

Whether he quite deserves the adulation he gets is another debate of course and one nobody can assert anything more than an opinion on and opinions are all valid of course but none are definitive.

 

It for me is a bit like Elvis, he is revered - but is it because he is the 'greatest' or is it because he was 'the first'....

 

I came across this article today when I was digging down to find out more about him and it felt reasonable to me.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-pele-is-overrated-2014-6

 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

8 hours ago, an tha said:

I read somewherw he didn't feature in 1 of those world cups due to injury.

 

Yeah a very, very different time - and I can see how it would have all been so exciting back then and he was without doubt one of the stars of that era and i am sure it was all something quite unique at the time.

 

Whether he quite deserves the adulation he gets is another debate of course and one nobody can assert anything more than an opinion on and opinions are all valid of course but none are definitive.

 

It for me is a bit like Elvis, he is revered - but is it because he is the 'greatest' or is it because he was 'the first'....

 

I came across this article today when I was digging down to find out more about him and it felt reasonable to me.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-pele-is-overrated-2014-6

 

 

Cant we just agree to say he was 'among' the best? Pele,Garrincha,Tostao and many others came through at a time with much less structure within the Youth game. No Academies,no medical facilities,no media training,it was just a pool of sharks with the survival of the very fittest and best making it through to the pro game. I,personally,think Cruyff gets overlooked too much because he was a rebel and anti authoritarian as a player. He was probably the one player for whom a whole club,Ajax,and nation, The Netherlands,shaped a whole footballing philosophy around. This despite him not liking too much structure himself. Maradona as a player speaks for himself due to both his unreal skill and influence over team mates. Argentina 86 and Napoli were not winning anything without him as they raised their game with him around. 

They were all great players but Pele was among them so let's leave it at that.

[magicrat]

11 hours ago, an tha said:

I read somewherw he didn't feature in 1 of those world cups due to injury.

 

Yeah a very, very different time - and I can see how it would have all been so exciting back then and he was without doubt one of the stars of that era and i am sure it was all something quite unique at the time.

 

Whether he quite deserves the adulation he gets is another debate of course and one nobody can assert anything more than an opinion on and opinions are all valid of course but none are definitive.

 

It for me is a bit like Elvis, he is revered - but is it because he is the 'greatest' or is it because he was 'the first'....

 

I came across this article today when I was digging down to find out more about him and it felt reasonable to me.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-pele-is-overrated-2014-6

 

 

Good article mate.
I know a lot of the hyperbole over his achievements is probably over the top and old memories get distorted but he meant so much more personally than Marradona , Messi and Ronald but in the end it perhaps boils down to the fact that I liked Pele so much more and he was perhaps the first global football superstar. Marradona was a bit of a twat and the other two are self obsessed pricks . 

[an tha]

4 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Cant we just agree to say he was 'among' the best? Pele,Garrincha,Tostao and many others came through at a time with much less structure within the Youth game. No Academies,no medical facilities,no media training,it was just a pool of sharks with the survival of the very fittest and best making it through to the pro game. I,personally,think Cruyff gets overlooked too much because he was a rebel and anti authoritarian as a player. He was probably the one player for whom a whole club,Ajax,and nation, The Netherlands,shaped a whole footballing philosophy around. This despite him not liking too much structure himself. Maradona as a player speaks for himself due to both his unreal skill and influence over team mates. Argentina 86 and Napoli were not winning anything without him as they raised their game with him around. 

They were all great players but Pele was among them so let's leave it at that.

I don't have any issue with that at all.

[an tha]

1 hour ago, magicrat said:

Good article mate.
I know a lot of the hyperbole over his achievements is probably over the top and old memories get distorted but he meant so much more personally than Marradona , Messi and Ronald but in the end it perhaps boils down to the fact that I liked Pele so much more and he was perhaps the first global football superstar. Marradona was a bit of a twat and the other two are self obsessed pricks . 

Fair do's, pal.

[VladimirIlyich]

On 31/12/2022 at 00:43, an tha said:

I read somewherw he didn't feature in 1 of those world cups due to injury.

 

Yeah a very, very different time - and I can see how it would have all been so exciting back then and he was without doubt one of the stars of that era and i am sure it was all something quite unique at the time.

 

Whether he quite deserves the adulation he gets is another debate of course and one nobody can assert anything more than an opinion on and opinions are all valid of course but none are definitive.

 

It for me is a bit like Elvis, he is revered - but is it because he is the 'greatest' or is it because he was 'the first'....

 

I came across this article today when I was digging down to find out more about him and it felt reasonable to me.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-pele-is-overrated-2014-6

 

 

Thats a great article but any animosity towards Pele from ex team mates towards Pele could have been simply because they made cash when playing alongside him,but when retirement happened he was the only one to take advantage of endorsements and the like? A lot of Brazilian players weren't so keen on it back then either.

[Harry's Lad]

1970 World Cup on BBC1 AT 11:45 tonight.

[an tha]

15 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Thats a great article but any animosity towards Pele from ex team mates towards Pele could have been simply because they made cash when playing alongside him,but when retirement happened he was the only one to take advantage of endorsements and the like? A lot of Brazilian players weren't so keen on it back then either.

Deffo could be an element of that yeah.

[Tony Moanero]

[Scott_M]

Bit much…

[Scott_M]

[Bobby Hundreds]

Name a stadium in every country after Pele. How does fuck off sound.

[aws]

23 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Name a stadium in every country after Pele. How does fuck off sound.

Wouldn’t be surprised if our neighbours are interested. Could be an opportunity to vaunt their virtue and cash in at the same time. The Pele Aviva or something similar.