Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[Gnasher]

Here we go, we're fucked

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-referendum-results-cameron-pledges-draft-laws-on-new-powers-for-scotland-will-be-published-by-january-9742831.html

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

No, the football thug who runs the pub now, can't remember his name, he said " we in blighty gotta stick 2gethur, them slags that want divorce dah me fucing ead in"

Is he propah nauwtee?

[stringvest]

Perhaps you meant this post in jest but I'm sure you'll be happy with everywhere in the UK getting a good rodgering from the Eton saliva dripping, Thatcher faeces flecked tumuscent member of the conservative party, including a city in the northwest which this forum is closely affiliated with?

 

well, the result certainly encourages precisely that.  

[stringvest]

Cameron very vague on what he might give Scotland but very clear on what should be done about the West Lothian question. Funny that

 

I thought all the certainty was with the Noes?  Well actually, I didn't, but I had to listen to it from lots of them.   Good luck with that.

[Bjornebye]

How do you know how big my penis is,  nothing to do with the size of my cock.  bollocks doing the rounds.  but how my penis got involved I don't know.

 

Brilliant. 

[Ranxerox]

Here we go, we're fucked

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-referendum-results-cameron-pledges-draft-laws-on-new-powers-for-scotland-will-be-published-by-january-9742831.html

 

 

If your experience is anything like that we've had in Canada get ready for non-stop offers of goodies and baubles followed by a rising sense of entitlement in Scotland and demands for more all the while threatening to hold another referendum. Hopefully you'll avoid all that.

[stringvest]

I'm thinking the unintended consequence of this result will now see England being stuffed to appease the disgruntled Tories.

We'll be seeing you yet, Stringers

 

 

?  I may still be a little pissed, but I'm not sure I would understand that sober.

[stringvest]

Surely the options should have been in Scottish Gaelic?

 

 

there was an announcement last night - one that was expected to be close - given long and laboriously in Scottish Gaelic first.  Much to the chain of everyone watching, both at the count and on the TV.  Plenty of ridicule ensued.  

[stringvest]

I mean look at PooscouserTommy for example, this english small penised villager. He doesn't give a fuck about Scotland and yet he visits Celtic forums after a Scottish independence referendum and he is under attack for having a small penis. I mean what has he done wrong at the end of the day? Just because he has not been blessed by some African sized features, he's got to go through all this? I blame you Scots for disturbing this decent, modest, conservative, patriotic english villager's calm life and for making him feel alienated from himself. Disgrace. 

 

oh the irony.

[Dr Nowt]

Nightcat immediately talking of the Scots as separate when it was "my fellow Scots" a few days ago and a Yes vote would have brought a full supposed unveiling with maximum gloating.

 

Amount of people fooled?

 

0%.

[stringvest]

Checking share prices and it would appear they've all shot up.  Very good for business this Stirling Syndrome.  Marvellous.  

[Babb'sBurstNad]

The sad fact is Labour have already shown they're happy to shift to the right to get into power in England. I doubt there'd be anything radically progressive in their manifesto that would've required the extra votes. The last time Scottish MPs made a real difference for Labour was when they voted to add top up fees for English students, and had they been re-elected they probably would've toed the line to help bring in identity cards too.

 

If Scotland can remain part of the union, get greater powers to raise revenues, and show that spending on public services actually works, it might help curb the current trend of "I'll pay for my little bit, and fuck you".

[clangers]

If your experience is anything like that we've had in Canada get ready for non-stop offers of goodies and baubles followed by a rising sense of entitlement in Scotland and demands for more all the while threatening to hold another referendum. Hopefully you'll avoid all that.

 

Without doubt that will be the SNP's tactic. I still think Scotland will be independent within 20 years or so. The SNP will leave the independence referendum alone for a Scottish parliament or two before raising it as an issue again. Given the weakening of Labour and the near non existence of the Tories north of the border the SNP can effectively call for another referendum whenever they like.

 

The whole flaw with devolution is that it leads to separation rather than preventing it. Labour thought that devolution was the answer in the nineties to prevent the breakup of the UK, the same will happen again, more powers will be ceded to Scotland which will actually have the effect of increasing separation as Scotland defines itself on a different path to the rest of the UK.

 

I'm not suggesting that's a bad thing, it just feels inevitable.

[stringvest]

The sad fact is Labour have already shown they're happy to shift to the right to get into power in England. I doubt there'd be anything radically progressive in their manifesto that would've required the extra votes. The last time Scottish MPs made a real difference for Labour was when they voted to add top up fees for English students, and had they been re-elected they probably would've toed the line to help bring in identity cards too.

 

If Scotland can remain part of the union, get greater powers to raise revenues, and show that spending on public services actually works, it might help curb the current trend of "I'll pay for my little bit, and fuck you".

 

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

 

I think you're on the same drugs as he was when he wrote that.  

[Section_31]

I disagree, I think it was now or never. As economies recover there'll be greater moves towards closer integration around the globe rather than fragmentation, I think the main reason nationalism has flourished in the last few years is because economies were in the toilet and the arguments tended to be 'what have we got to lose'.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

 

I think you're on the same drugs as he was when he wrote that.  

 

Never really liked that song to be honest.

 

As for drugs, it's nothing stronger than chocolate hobnobs for me these days. I'm going to try holding onto my last few remaining synapses.

[Trumo]

I mean look at PooscouserTommy for example, this english small penised villager. He doesn't give a fuck about Scotland and yet he visits Celtic forums after a Scottish independence referendum and he is under attack for having a small penis. I mean what has he done wrong at the end of the day? Just because he has not been blessed by some African sized features, he's got to go through all this? I blame you Scots for disturbing this decent, modest, conservative, patriotic english villager's calm life and for making him feel alienated from himself. Disgrace. 

 

When people say "Nightcat - massive cock", they aren't referring to the size of your old chap.

[rubble-rouser]

Labour has to be bold and accept that you can't have scots MPs voting on English issues. The party has deliberately ducked the issue for a generation. The logical solution is an English assembly, but that would be massively expensive. I'd be up for regional assemblies (NW, NE, Midlands, SE, SW, London)  - I think the North West shits on the rest of the country culturally - I mean, we have Runcorn.

[stringvest]

... but how my penis got involved I don't know. 

 

the number of times I've used this line in court.  Never works.

[xerxes]

Without doubt that will be the SNP's tactic. I still think Scotland will be independent within 20 years or so. The SNP will leave the independence referendum alone for a Scottish parliament or two before raising it as an issue again. Given the weakening of Labour and the near non existence of the Tories north of the border the SNP can effectively call for another referendum whenever they like.

 

The whole flaw with devolution is that it leads to separation rather than preventing it. Labour thought that devolution was the answer in the nineties to prevent the breakup of the UK, the same will happen again, more powers will be ceded to Scotland which will actually have the effect of increasing separation as Scotland defines itself on a different path to the rest of the UK.

 

I'm not suggesting that's a bad thing, it just feels inevitable.

I don’t see it that way.

 

I think that Scotland wants more control over its own destiny, but with a safety net ( the Union/the Pound/EU).

 

The SNP as a party may well have now peaked, having failed to deliver independence. Increased powers come with the responsibility which Salmond swerved during the election. Scotland has been in tax deficit to the UK for every year bar one this century. If Scotland wants to spend more on some things, fine, but Salmond will also have to decide where to spend less, an unfortunate consequence of power. More power may weaken, not strengthen the independence debate. Watching a country a tenth the size of England in population, with an ageing, unhealthy, largely rural dispersed people spend more on the NHS was always going to be interesting. Looking at a Nationalised railway outside Strathclyde soak up cash even more so.

 

Devolution may lead to a more federal UK and that would be a good thing. An unintended consequence may be the lessening of voting rights by Scots MPs resulting in the talented Scots politicians who have hitherto gravitated South plying their trade back in Scotland, raising the standard.

[mattyq]

The No campaign were fucking useless...if they'd been any sort of good then No would have got 60%+ and Yes rightly badly bummed to throw Independence into the long grass forever. As it was i think they have Gordon Brown to thank for his inspired late intervention.

The Scots will get lots of extra powers so Salmond, in a way, is a winner although he won't be feeling like that at the moment

This whole thing gives me a great amount of relief and pleasure and it bodes well for the future.

People want radical change and no more tory austerity...Labour should use this to radicalise their position on a whole host of things - rail and mail re-nationalisation, improved NHS, progressive taxes etc although Milliband being such a fucking twat they'll probably fumble it.

I'm looking forward to much greater regional powers and federalization...the Tories think this will benefit them re England but they're wrong, it won't. They haven't won an election since 92 for the simple reason that their policies are toxic...they'll get blindsided by UKip

I'm still a tad pisssed

[TheHowieLama]

This must feel like a loss for both Scotland and England.

[PestiRed]

Labour has to be bold and accept that you can't have scots MPs voting on English issues. The party has deliberately ducked the issue for a generation. The logical solution is an English assembly, but that would be massively expensive. I'd be up for regional assemblies (NW, NE, Midlands, SE, SW, London)  - I think the North West shits on the rest of the country culturally - I mean, we have Runcorn.

Problem is when England has over 80% of the population, is it really possible that any decision made for England doesn't have a knock-on effect on the rest of the UK? Even with devolution, no decision exists in some sort of England-only vacuum. Not to mention that every politician's natural instinct will be to push legislation into the arena where it is most likely to succeed. The whole thing will be a mess

[Trumo]

This must feel like a loss for both Scotland and England.

 

It will no doubt be described as 'brave' for the Scots though, just like everything else is.

[stringvest]

Matty, I think the reverse is also true.  If the Yes campaign had been based on proper foundations, with costed plans for fiscal and monetary independence, with transition planning - or at least the key elements of it - understood, the result would have been very different.