Go fuck yourselves FSG

[Tony Moanero]

So hands up who ever wants a rich sugar daddy to help you buy all your favorite toys, or do you want to earn it with hard work and with money that we have actually earned ?

 

Either way, modern football is fucking shite.

[WaltonRed]

forest and villa it is then, surely?

[Red_or_Dead]

The club has an average finish OUT of the top 4 over the last 20 seasons - these owners can now be the latest reason that the club is not in its "proper" position.

 

9 years out of 20 (or less)?

 

2 consecutive years under FSG

 

Not sniping against our owners, but Cancer and Aids have so destabalished our club (along with Rafa going potty), I just can't see us getting back in the top 4.

[Tony Moanero]

Rafa going potty?

[piscinin]

9 years out of 20 (or less)?

 

2 consecutive years under FSG

 

Not sniping against our owners, but Cancer and Aids have so destabalished our club (along with Rafa going potty), I just can't see us getting back in the top 4.

 

We've finished in the top 4 - 12 out of 20 times i.e. 60% of the time.

 

Take out the FSG years and it's top 4 2/3rds of the time.

 

Howie has obviously taken a leaf out of Code's "Bent Statistics for Dummies".

[TheHowieLama]

9 years out of 20 (or less)?

 

2 consecutive years under FSG

 

Not sniping against our owners, but Cancer and Aids have so destabalished our club (along with Rafa going potty), I just can't see us getting back in the top 4.

 

They bought a club in 18th place - talk about destabalished - which is a great word to describe it - but as you said we were kinda in it and now are kinda not.

[TheHowieLama]

We've finished in the top 4 - 12 out of 20 times i.e. 60% of the time.

 

Take out the FSG years and it's top 4 2/3rds of the time.

 

Howie has obviously taken a leaf out of Code's "Bent Statistics for Dummies".

 

Nope pal, I added up the positions in the league and divided by the number of years. I could never hope to master the subtleties. As for the two years, see above.

 

BTW I am ok with the numbers - in that case the odds of Benitez leading the team to the finals of the CL are @ 30%. Gotta be a record there.

[ngogswilly]

I just like to think of it as, from 1999 - 2009 we were a top 4 team. A team capable of finishing in the top 4 even if we always didn't.

Which was what twice maybe in those ten years?

 

Now we're not. I don't think any one person or persons is to blame. Its been a collective clusterfuck.

[Nightcat]

So hands up who ever wants a rich sugar daddy to help you buy all your favorite toys, or do you want to earn it with hard work and with money that we have actually earned ?

 

You weren't saying that when Moores was a chairman were you? Silly argument really. Your point of view defeats the point of actually selling the club in the first place.

 

Wasn't the initial plan to find people more rich than Moores so they can invest in the squad by giving Rafa who was working under a strict transfer budget(even after we won the CL), the financial strengh to take us to a new level? Wasn't the initial plan to find people who can secure funding for the stadium and if needed to invest their money to materialise the plans? Wasn't the initial plan to find owners who could capitalise on Liverpool's global fanbase?

 

Of course the investors would benefit in the long term by the value the club would gain from their investment.

 

What have we got now? Sell to buy. Meh...

[Funkasy]

No the initial plan was for Moores to get as much money as possible as fast as possible, therefor us ending with the worst owners in the world.

[Ranxerox]

As costs go up, new government help is on the way. In March, the club succeeded in adding Fenway to the National Register of Historic Places. More than something to brag about, the designation comes with a federal tax credit worth $39.4 million -- 20 percent of qualified rehabilitation costs -- and makes the Sox eligible for an equal amount of credits from the state, according to Brian McNiff, spokesman for the Secretary of the Commonwealth’s office, which oversees the state historical commission. So far the club has secured $11.2 million in state credits.

 

Hahahahaha

 

...typical corporate welfare bums

[TheHowieLama]

No the initial plan was for Moores to get as much money as possible as fast as possible, therefor us ending with the worst owners in the world.

 

Spot on. The goals of the fanbase and ownership diverged somewhere well before these cowboys, or the cowboys before that. It is just easier for some - and the slow to voice it now.

[xerxes]

So hands up who ever wants a rich sugar daddy to help you buy all your favorite toys, or do you want to earn it with hard work and with money that we have actually earned ?......................

 

No the initial plan was for Moores to get as much money as possible as fast as possible, therefor us ending with the worst owners in the world.

 

On your first para, we will never bridge the gap with the Top Four now on earned income alone.

 

On your second, you misrepresent Moores.Moores was honest enough to admit that he did not want the responsibility, and financial pressure of competeing with the Abrahamovic, OT 76k capacity, Arsenal new stadium project era. He wanted out.

 

The sale was properly conducted and only two proceedable bids emerged, both would be judged by history to be doomed - that wasn't his fault.

 

He could have held on, but when the club was sold again only one proceedable buyer was at the table.

 

Now I would agree that the relative unsaleability of the club was down to his management, specifically on the matter of the stadium. But he had acknowledged his shortcomings by his decision to sell.

[WaltonRed]

On your first para, we will never bridge the gap with the Top Four now on earned income alone.

 

On your second, you misrepresent Moores.Moores was honest enough to admit that he did not want the responsibility, and financial pressure of competeing with the Abrahamovic, OT 76k capacity, Arsenal new stadium project era. He wanted out.

 

The sale was properly conducted and only two proceedable bids emerged, both would be judged by history to be doomed - that wasn't his fault.

 

He could have held on, but when the club was sold again only one proceedable buyer was at the table.

 

Now I would agree that the relative unsaleability of the club was down to his management, specifically on the matter of the stadium. But he had acknowledged his shortcomings by his decision to sell.

 

Hiya Rick!

 

He took the biggest offer and ran, dont be fooled. The idiot got us in this mess and no one else apart from your good self Mr.Parry

[Bobby Hundreds]

How do we earn more money through hardwork without success on the pitch. We need to build the foundations for success before we start acting like we already have it. You don't start some kind of money saving exercise on a team that finished 8th, get the books in order by all means, get value for money trim the dead wood but you need to invest big when it's needed, buy genuine quality players not obvious there's a player who could probably do a job type. The windows open so there's no need to panic yet but Jesus we need at least of couple of signings that show ambition.

[Bjornebye]

How do we earn more money through hardwork without success on the pitch. We need to build the foundations for success before we start acting like we already have it. You don't start some kind of money saving exercise on a team that finished 8th, get the books in order by all means, get value for money trim the dead wood but you need to invest big when it's needed, buy genuine quality players not obvious there's a player who could probably do a job type. The windows open so there's no need to panic yet but Jesus we need at least of couple of signings that show ambition.

 

fucking bang on there mate.

 

speculate to accumulate.

[Timão]

You weren't saying that when Moores was a chairman were you? Silly argument really. Your point of view defeats the point of actually selling the club in the first place.

 

Wasn't the initial plan to find people more rich than Moores so they can invest in the squad by giving Rafa who was working under a strict transfer budget(even after we won the CL), the financial strengh to take us to a new level? Wasn't the initial plan to find people who can secure funding for the stadium and if needed to invest their money to materialise the plans? Wasn't the initial plan to find owners who could capitalise on Liverpool's global fanbase?

 

Of course the investors would benefit in the long term by the value the club would gain from their investment.

 

What have we got now? Sell to buy. Meh...

 

Woooosh, there goes the argument, right over your head.

 

Liverpool fans, so glad we are different.

[Whelan]

fucking bang on there mate.

 

speculate to accumulate.

 

It is too simplistic though. Nobody invests blindly, nobody. Well, nobody who is successful.

 

There is a fair argument to say that the first thing they need to do is to change the way that we work, the way we conduct transfers, contracts and negotiate. Two examples are Dirk and Alberto. It was a pretty fair bet that if Dirk was to leave us it would be abroad, either back to Holland for a big pay day, so why on earth was he allowed to insert a clause limiting his transfer abroad?

 

Why was Alberto's deal with Milan so weighted in their favour?

 

We look like we are losing a little bit at the moment. Which is why I think they want to lower the wage bill.

 

If we take four players, Maxi, Cole, Aquilani and Bellamy I think we are looking at approximately £20m a year for those four alone, four players who don't offer anything more than a squad player, they have no sell on value in the way that an Adam, Spearing or Henderson would have. So the focus has been getting them off the bill. It is all very well saying we need to invest but, it has to be measured investment.

 

Allen and Borini will set us back £25m (of £30m), and will add in £8m to the wages, so if you want us to splash out without selling we would need another £30m and if we bring in 3 or 4 players we will be adding £12-16m to the wage bill. So if we didn't focus upon getting rid of the players mentioned then we have added another £20-25m to the wage bill per year.

 

If they can look to increase revenue by £10m and lump £20m of the wage bill then there is more money to play with. We can dress it up as much as we like but last year has fucked us up because it has given us nothing, cutting our losses and selling Downing, Caroll, Adam and Enrique like we should, would mean losing £30m in a year and we simply cannot afford to do that.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Does anyone not have the slightest doubt and that maybe they have bitten off a little more than they can chew.

[Faustus]

Does anyone not have the slightest doubt and that maybe they have bitten off a little more than they can chew.

 

I agree. I think they underestimated the job at hand and thought that one summer splurge would be enough to get back into the top four. And I also think they thought that FFP would be implemented stringently, but there's not a hope in hell of it happening.

 

Like I said in another thread, I've got a hunch they're looking to sell, hence this cutting of the wage bill and signing up every company under the sun to be 'Liverpool's official seat sponsor' or whatever else they flog as a partnership.

[WaltonRed]

plus if we arent in debt, anything they make will be all there's

 

i just dont see anyone buying us, no one wanted us dirt cheap, who'd want us for a shit load of dough?

[Whelan]

Like I said in another thread, I've got a hunch they're looking to sell, hence this cutting of the wage bill and signing up every company under the sun to be 'Liverpool's official seat sponsor' or whatever else they flog as a partnership.

 

But isn't that what they did at the Red Sox? Someone posted it earlier and the pattern is the same, cut the wage bill and increase revenue first then look to improve.

 

We are not the only club they have invested in, NESV is also involved in Roma so they are seemingly attempting to diversify their portfolio, this is what NESV do, they invest in Sports teams. They don't exist for any other purpose. Cutting the wage bill to increase profits only happens if they are looking to asset strip, and since the players and stadium are the only assetts and are essential to the value of the club they can't be sold off.

 

If they wanted to sell us off they would have gained the funding for the stadium to increase the value of the club. By choosing to increase the match day revenue they are looking at a long term project. They have every right to be careful, it doesn't mean they are off, this isn't a Co-op it is a billion pound investment group.

[WaltonRed]

yeh but this isnt baseball for the millionth time

 

The Red Sox won the world series under them but since then what? nowt

 

If they think we'll wait 80 odd years to win the league then after winning it once just be happy to go another few decades they're in for a shock.

 

the two things dont translate the same way you wouldnt run a NFL team like a MLB team you cant run a football club, a big one at that like you run your other 'franchises'

 

Roma fans will be happy with a cup win or 4th every season why? they've never won anything apart from about 2 leagues.

[WhiskeyJar]

Suarez signing a new deal according to the other thread shows their intention to retain our most prized assets.

I think they are finding their feet, so right now I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt.

 

Lets judge after the transfer window eh?

[Whelan]

yeh but this isnt baseball for the millionth time

 

The Red Sox won the world series under them but since then what? nowt

 

If they think we'll wait 80 odd years to win the league then after winning it once just be happy to go another few decades they're in for a shock.

 

the two things dont translate the same way you wouldnt run a NFL team like a MLB team you cant run a football club, a big one at that like you run your other 'franchises'

 

Roma fans will be happy with a cup win or 4th every season why? they've never won anything apart from about 2 leagues.

 

Well first point. I fucking know! But in the most simplistic terms Profit/loss is exactly the same, you can't have too much of the later and expect the former to simply happen. You are all very good at explain how much money needs to be spent but none of you seem to be telling us where this money is supposed to come from? I realise you all think that the owners should sign blind cheques to sign players, but you ain't explaining where the extra £20-25m a year in wages is going to come from.

 

The strategy is transferable, a wage bill that includes squad players on £100k plus needs to be cut, anyone with half a brain would do the same thing, it provides room to spend that money on first team players without adding to the wage bill. No offence, but they are reponsible for the day to day running of a sporting business that is worth billions, you on the other hand live in Walton!

 

And your dismissing of Roma is pathetic, and based on nothing more than it is inconvenient to your argument. If you seriously think Roma fans are happy with a cup win every 2 years then you know nothing about football, if that was the case then Ranieri who won the cup would still be manager.