No risk & a proven winner Rafa Benitez

[Guest davelfc]

For as long as Alan Kayll is advising the owners Rafa will be nowhere near the job.

 

Not that the fanbase is ready for it yet.

 

If he wields that much influence on the owners then they need to fuck off, really they do. Personally I think they are more likely just interested in avoiding match day traffic.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

For as long as Alan Kayll is advising the owners Rafa will be nowhere near the job.

 

Not that the fanbase is ready for it yet.

 

I've got to be honest here, I've crossed swords many years ago with ATK over benitez, and remain a big fan of his. However, that is not the reasoning behind my view that if Alan is being consulted on the next manager of Liverpool, then we may as well pack the whole gig fucking in. We all love the club, but none of us are "football men" we have very little understanding of what a premier league managers job entails, or how the very best do what they do. Consult David Dein by all means, Parry maybe a cunt but at least knows his way around the inner echelons, Brian Barwick has had major involvement in the game for years - by all means consult these people and take yer time coming to the correct decision, but for christ sake don't involve the fans in such an important decision. They have probably regretted listening to public cries and employing Kenny and I presume seeing what has been a wasted year - not my personal view, I was made up to see him back, and would have been happy with another year to see if he could turn things around. But as far as I'm concerned players and fans should have fuck all choice in who manages this club, we as fans are ill informed on the mechanisms involved, and players can have personal bias which should have fuck all to do with appointing their boss.

[Tom R]

For as long as Alan Kayll is advising the owners Rafa will be nowhere near the job.

 

Not that the fanbase is ready for it yet.

 

 

er, what?

[ritchie]

It's not that he's being consulted on the next manager necessarily, but Kayll does speak to the owners, he's got the gig writing for Liverpool on NESN, is friendly with them and speaks to them about LFC - Werner definitely.

 

What's the one thing Kayll's going to make clear? Rafa Benitez is the devil. He's got an obsessive hatred of him, so the owners will have heard all kinds of stories and been completely put off from going anywhere near Rafa. Not necessarily just from Kayll either. Ayre will be another one.

 

All things being equal Rafa would be in the job now because he's available and his record speaks for itself, other than Capello in terms of managers available. In hindsight his time at LFC is looking better and better. But the owners have clearly been put off.

Edited May 18, 2012 by ritchie

[Trucker Paddy]

Alan is not advising the owners, that's all.

[Dr.Filth]

er, what?

 

....x2!

 

I guess we'll soon find out if that's true when Paul Jewell becomes a contender.

[VladimirIlyich]

Wow. There must be loads of padly paved driveways recently laid across France and Spain for him to get the money.

 

Is he trying to get rid of it before Interpol try and seize it?

[xerxes]

Ayre refused to reveal who was headhunting for them in The Independent today.

 

Assume it is a US based firm.

[The Guest]

Steven Gerrard, "one of the best centre mids in world football"? So much so, none of the managers trust him there? No one since Houllier have trusted him in that position. His best position, as proven by goals and assists have been on the right, and behind the striker. PROVEN. FACT

 

BTW did you even watch the Champions League finals in 2005? Gerrard partnered Alonso in central midfield, and we were trashed 3-0!!!!

 

Only when Rafa replaced Finnan, moving Gerrard to a free role to RB as well as behind the strikers, and put Hamann next to Alonso did we start out fight back. Your football knowledge is laughable

 

"Its why we won the champions league" indeed. Pathetic

 

Gerrard was good, very good pre-Rafa. That I do not deny. But like Fernando Torres in A. Madrid , he was potential world class. Nothing proven yet. He had not yet climbed to the upper echelons of world recognition.

 

Losing all your arguments, so you resort to calling me a cunt? Proves what a simpleton you are really.

 

We played three in midfield in the final when finnan went off you absolute crab. Gerrard got forward more but he wasn't playing in a free role you brainwashed fool. Benitez played him in centre mid more than any other position in the time he was here. You know what, it's only when he started moving him around when we stopped winning trophies. Where do you think gerrard played in the cup final named after him. No one else trusts him there? Where do you think he's been playing since Benitez left? The reason Benitez stopped playing him there is because he can't stand midfielders who move further than 10 yards away from the centre halves. He got lucky in that he had the best passer in world football who was happy to do that. In the end he even wanted shut of him. What we seen in Benitez last season is his view on football and what he wants us to play like. If you are happy with that you are mental.

 

All Benitez does is restrict the attacking players he doesn't improve them at all. It's their natural ability in spite of Benitez tactics that sometimes comes through. Playing gerrard behind the striker harmed the team more often than not and that famous season which actually led to fuck all is just a myth. It wasn't some great attacking master stroke. It was so Benitez could have a load of men behind the ball to stop the other team from scoring and hope the ability of his two best players could come up with the magic. That season we fell behind in ten league games before pulling gerrard back and throwing another centre forward on and winning the game. In a lot of others we didn't do that and just drew. You know what happened in the end.

 

Managers like ferguson and Wenger help and improve players by giving them free licence to run at people and flood their centre forwards with chances. Benitez does the opposite. I dont see how he actually improved any of our attacking players when all he did was restrict them. Torres and gerrard would have became world class regardless wherever they would have went in their careers. The reason I know that is because gerrard was world class before he got here which you actually even failed to argue and Torres was world class under Benitez and if he could have done that he could have done it under any manager.

Edited May 18, 2012 by The Guest

[BringbackBiscan]

Without a doubt Rafa is the best manager that would even think about taking the job. He'd cost too much and demand too much transfer money for FSG tho, so no goer.

[xerxes]

Without a doubt Rafa is the best manager that would even think about taking the job. He'd cost too much and demand too much transfer money for FSG tho, so no goer.

 

I think that it is the political side of Rafa that is the stumbling block for FSG, not the money side.Rafa would cost no more than Kenny who was very generously paid.Rafa isn't a team player- and thats what the Americans will want.

[Saintslfc13]

I think that it is the political side of Rafa that is the stumbling block for FSG, not the money side.Rafa would cost no more than Kenny who was very generously paid.Rafa isn't a team player- and thats what the Americans will want.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how a man who revolted against the previous owners the same as we did gets hit with the "not a team player tag"

 

He doesn't like being lied too, neither do we.

 

You can see it now really, the blood is rushing to our heads again as most of us have no fucking clue what FSG are doing and most of us are starting to believe they don't have one themselves either.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Without a doubt Rafa is the best manager that would even think about taking the job. He'd cost too much and demand too much transfer money for FSG tho, so no goer.

 

This is spot on.

 

I will never understand the continuing Rafa-hatred from some of the dicks who claim to support our club.

 

Sacking Rafa in 2010 was a shitty act carried out by shitty people. (That much is surely undeniable - and doesn't reflect well on those who acted as cheerleaders.) Sacking Kenny this week was an equally shitty act. I honestly can't see myself mustering any enthusiasm for any incoming manager: but, given his record with the club, his commitment to the club and a sense of unfinished business, I might make an exception for Rafa.

[Major Tom]

This is spot on.

 

I will never understand the continuing Rafa-hatred from some of the dicks who claim to support our club.

 

 

Surely it's just a different perspective? Doesn't make them any less a supporter than anyone who wants Rafa back in my book. Just means they see things differently. Fans will never agree on everything!

[Benitaur]

We played three in midfield in the final when finnan went off you absolute crab. Gerrard got forward more but he wasn't playing in a free role you brainwashed fool. Benitez played him in centre mid more than any other position in the time he was here. You know what, it's only when he started moving him around when we stopped winning trophies. Where do you think gerrard played in the cup final named after him. No one else trusts him there? Where do you think he's been playing since Benitez left? The reason Benitez stopped playing him there is because he can't stand midfielders who move further than 10 yards away from the centre halves. He got lucky in that he had the best passer in world football who was happy to do that. In the end he even wanted shut of him. What we seen in Benitez last season is his view on football and what he wants us to play like. If you are happy with that you are mental.

 

He played in the middle behind the strikers in the second half of the CL final. When Milan brought on Serginho, Gerrard was moved to RB to accomodate this tactical change. Don't worry, these tactical nuances probably completely escaped you.

 

And you mean the Steven Gerrard final, the 2006 FA Cup, where he scored a thumper, and he played on the RIGHT?

 

So Benitez played him more in the centre, thats why his best seasons were on the right, and behind Torres, and he kept looking for more CMs, like Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Lucas etc. Surely sounds like a manager who trusts him. He must have played tons for England in CM too. Oh wait... he's moved all over the place too

 

Benitez can't stand midfielders who go more than 10 metres from the centre line? Thats why he gets Gerrard to score 20+ goals on the right and behind Torres eh? Thats why he keeps looking for midfielders who score 10 goals a season eh ?

 

Funny how you view the final season as "how Benitez wants to play", and totally disregard 2009 form. Somehow for all the Rafa haters, 2009 is where Rafa let them loose to just do whatever they want, right? Unfortunately the Valencia crushing machine proves this wrong, and shows that the 2009 form was how Rafa wants the team to play all along

 

All Benitez does is restrict the attacking players he doesn't improve them at all. It's their natural ability in spite of Benitez tactics that sometimes comes through. Playing gerrard behind the striker harmed the team more often than not and that famous season there which actually led to fuck all is just a myth. It wasn't some great attacking master stroke. It was so Benitez could have a load of men behind the ball to stop the other team from scoring and hope the ability of his two best players could. One up with the magic. That season we fell behind in therm league games before pulling gerrard back and throwing another centre forward on and winning the game. In a lot of others we didn't do that and just drew. You know what happened in the end.

 

That must be why attacking players like Gerrard, Torres, Aimar, Eto'o all thrive under him. They must have gone on to greater things right? Nope. Not even close

 

Heck, even players like Benayoun, Garcia etc have had the best form of their lives under Rafa. How have they gone since then, huh?

 

Managers like ferguson and Wenger help and improve players by giving them free licence to run at people and flood their centre forwards with chances. Benitez does the opposite. I dont see how he actually improved any of our attacking players when all he did was restrict them. Torres and gerrard would have became world class regardless wherever they would have went in their careers. The reason I know that is because gerrard was world class before he got here which you actually even failed to argue and Torres was world class under Benitez and if he could have done that he could have done it under any manager.

 

Again, show me how Gerrard and Torres have been world class since? How about Aimar? He was sold for 5 million a few years after Rafa left, while he was rated world class when Rafa was at Valencia.

 

Your definition of world class seems very loose.

 

Show me how Gerrard was world class before Rafa came. How was his goal scoring? He must have been scoring 20 a season right? Nope.

 

You somehow seem to forget, we were the Michael Owen show before Rafa took over. Gerrard showed some glimpses in Houllier's final 2 years, but world class as in top 5 in the world in CM? Not a chance

 

Players like C Ronaldo, Tevez improved AFTER they left Ferguson. So thats a clue that they would have become world class after all.

 

Wenger gets forever to turn his potentials into stars. It took him 4 years before Fabregas "suddenly" became world class. How many years have Robin Van Persie been with Arsenal before he consistently became the striker he is today?

 

Now compare this to Benitez. Torres broke all scoring records in his first 2 seasons. Gerrard "suddenly" became a 20+ goal a season player.

 

How many attacking players have done better after they left Benitez?

 

It is clear that you either never watch the matches, or have no clue whats been going on. You can even get any stats to back up anything.

[xerxes]

It never ceases to amaze me how a man who revolted against the previous owners the same as we did gets hit with the "not a team player tag"

Perhaps if you look at what happened at Valencia and inter milan, his last three jobs actually, you would be less amazed?

 

"Revolted" - how is signing a new five year contract which helped G&H secure a finance extension "revolting" by the way? That seems to me like signing up for the ride.

[Gym Beglin]

First, I want to start with this... I don't owe Benitez anything.

I've no more reason to support him than Hodgson, or Houllier, or Kenny, or Evans, or any of our other managers from recent past. I'm English, have no Spanish or latino heritage at all, nor holiday there, or own a Valencia shirt. All my dealings with Rafa have been through the English media, and the European media, via his recent segment with Eurogoals on Eurosport.

 

If there's one thing I pride myself on, it's looking at things objectively, it's part of my day-to-day job to be able to do that for legal purposes, and it drives my missus nuts because she hates me using the cold side of my brain to make rational decisions at home when it's not what she wants to hear.

 

Classic example was last night when there was no Sky signal coming through. Anyway.

 

With my neutral hat on, with the benefit of hindsight after his first go at it, I still think he's the most rational appointment we could make.

 

I'm not sure what all this 'politicking' problem with Rafa stuff is coming from. He won't get the same treatment here with FSG, he'll be treated as an employee, not a board member. By all means, if we appoint him and he turns into a tit, then sack him, but i would definitely give him the chance to work under this regime and see how he takes to it. Before he starts though I would sit him down and say "look mate, you're not going to have as much money as Man City, or probably Man United, or Chelsea, but this is what it is, so if you're going to bring it up as an excuse or sore point at some point then you can turn around now and leave".

 

That's the key though, you have to be honest from the start. My problem with FSG is that they might play the 'big I am' card with managers. I can imagine, the more higher profile the manager then they add 5% onto the quoted transfer figure to try and impress them. But it all backfires when they don't get what was promised to them, it's a ready made excuse.

 

Rafa ticks so many boxes, he's local (fuck off, he's not living far away, that's the fucking same in the context of finding a manager, "oh look, there's on living on the Wirral..."), he's got Premiership experience and finished in the CL positions in 4 of his 6 seasons, he's impervious to pressure, he handles the media very well (especially compared to Kenny), he has brilliant knowledge of both the English leagues and the Spanish league and has previous for spotting talent at a range of prices, and for me the big part is that he loves this club, loves this city and its people, and he wants to stay and build something big and that will last.

My fear is that bigger names may come here with a very short remit in their minds, and we WILL turn into a poorer cousin of Man City, throwing money into 2 year projects here and there, never with any overarching theme. We need a friend of the city, and Rafa is that, someone who is more than happy to stay in the area for the next 20 years if needs be, you can't buy a top manager with that sort of stability, for this part of the World, Liverpool is not New York, London or Madrid, however much we all love it. Will Mancini still be living in Manchester in 3 years time? Get to fuck.

 

Every rational bone in my body tells me that Rafa is the best candidate for the job. Even if he was at another club and doing well, I'd still be advocating that we spoke to him.

Lest we forget, Di Matteo is riding this wave of success, it could easily have been Rafa off to Munich this weekend had he taken up Chelsea's offer. Unlikely that Terry would give him the time of day and would have fucked him, but who knows.

 

If we appointed Rafa, and if we spent some serious money, and if we didn't get 4th, then by all means, throw him to the dogs. Not sack necessarily, but scrutinise him all you want, no person at this club shall ever, EVER be above scrutiny.

[The Guest]

He played in the middle behind the strikers in the second half of the CL final. When Milan brought on Serginho, Gerrard was moved to RB to accomodate this tactical change. Don't worry, these tactical nuances probably completely escaped you.

 

And you mean the Steven Gerrard final, the 2006 FA Cup, where he scored a thumper, and he played on the RIGHT?

 

So Benitez played him more in the centre, thats why his best seasons were on the right, and behind Torres, and he kept looking for more CMs, like Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Lucas etc. Surely sounds like a manager who trusts him. He must have played tons for England in CM too. Oh wait... he's moved all over the place too

 

Benitez can't stand midfielders who go more than 10 metres from the centre line? Thats why he gets Gerrard to score 20+ goals on the right and behind Torres eh? Thats why he keeps looking for midfielders who score 10 goals a season eh ?

 

Funny how you view the final season as "how Benitez wants to play", and totally disregard 2009 form. Somehow for all the Rafa haters, 2009 is where Rafa let them loose to just do whatever they want, right? Unfortunately the Valencia crushing machine proves this wrong, and shows that the 2009 form was how Rafa wants the team to play all along

 

 

 

That must be why attacking players like Gerrard, Torres, Aimar, Eto'o all thrive under him. They must have gone on to greater things right? Nope. Not even close

 

Heck, even players like Benayoun, Garcia etc have had the best form of their lives under Rafa. How have they gone since then, huh?

 

 

 

Again, show me how Gerrard and Torres have been world class since? How about Aimar? He was sold for 5 million a few years after Rafa left, while he was rated world class when Rafa was at Valencia.

 

Your definition of world class seems very loose.

 

Show me how Gerrard was world class before Rafa came. How was his goal scoring? He must have been scoring 20 a season right? Nope.

 

You somehow seem to forget, we were the Michael Owen show before Rafa took over. Gerrard showed some glimpses in Houllier's final 2 years, but world class as in top 5 in the world in CM? Not a chance

 

Players like C Ronaldo, Tevez improved AFTER they left Ferguson. So thats a clue that they would have become world class after all.

 

Wenger gets forever to turn his potentials into stars. It took him 4 years before Fabregas "suddenly" became world class. How many years have Robin Van Persie been with Arsenal before he consistently became the striker he is today?

 

Now compare this to Benitez. Torres broke all scoring records in his first 2 seasons. Gerrard "suddenly" became a 20+ goal a season player.

 

How many attacking players have done better after they left Benitez?

 

It is clear that you either never watch the matches, or have no clue whats been going on. You can even get any stats to back up anything.

 

I can't be arsed conversing with you any more as you clearly have no brain.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Surely it's just a different perspective? Doesn't make them any less a supporter than anyone who wants Rafa back in my book. Just means they see things differently. Fans will never agree on everything!

 

No, its not just a "different perspective".

 

Its an opinion based on absolute bullshit and borderline xenophobia.

 

Major Tom, your mums a whore. Why, you ask? Just a different perspective, why do you care?

[Major Tom]

No, its not just a "different perspective".

 

Its an opinion based on absolute bullshit and borderline xenophobia.

 

 

Bullshit and xenophobic in your view but not in theirs. I don't particularly want Rafa back at Liverpool and I'm not xenophobic. Some of my best friends are foreign.

 

Saying that, I really don't know why people (on both sides of the Rafa debate) get so wound up about this. Surely someone who causes that sort of rift among the fans is not good for the club.

[.G.]

Alan is not advising the owners, that's all.

 

You might be right there:whistle:

 

 

Alan Kayll ‏@alantkayll

Fuck off FSG!!! And fuck you Paul Tomkins.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Perhaps if you look at what happened at Valencia and inter milan, his last three jobs actually, you would be less amazed?

 

"Revolted" - how is signing a new five year contract which helped G&H secure a finance extension "revolting" by the way? That seems to me like signing up for the ride.

 

What should he have done then? Left and let Hodgson take over so he could watch the club get relegated?

 

He signed a new contract (with his overriding stipulation being control) in order to fight for the fans and make sure we arent taken for a ride. He was double crossed though because they ended up hiring new people in new roles which superseded the control given to Rafa.

 

Disagree with his football if you want, but be certain that you're a fucking idiot if you think Rafa wasn't instrumental in ousting the ex-owners.

 

"going along for the ride" - go fuck yourself you disrespectful cunt.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Bullshit and xenophobic in your view but not in theirs. I don't particularly want Rafa back at Liverpool and I'm not xenophobic. Some of my best friends are foreign.

 

Saying that, I really don't know why people (on both sides of the Rafa debate) get so wound up about this. Surely someone who causes that sort of rift among the fans is not good for the club.

 

Youre a fucking idiot.

 

Dont have him back for footballing reasons, fine.

 

But his "politics" should be fucking thanked, not lambasted. He fought against the owners for us and the club and is one of the prime reasons why we didnt get completely torn apart.

 

Here is why, you fucking prick. Rafa loves this club just like Kenny. Both are absolute legends. The fact that Kenny holds Rafa in the highest esteem says as much. When you disrespect a legend, such as Kenny, people will get "wound up". People questioning Rafa's character are fucking cunts, because its the one aspect of him which shouldn't be questioned.

 

Don't reply because I know what you're like (RE: the suarez case). fuck off.

[Major Tom]

 

Dont have him back for footballing reasons, fine.

 

 

I would say that's the very reason people don't want him back. Do you think it's because they didn't like his goatee?

 

I am really not sure why you are so wound up!

[Bjornebye]

Youre a fucking idiot.

 

Dont have him back for footballing reasons, fine.

 

But his "politics" should be fucking thanked, not lambasted. He fought against the owners for us and the club and is one of the prime reasons why we didnt get completely torn apart.

 

Here is why, you fucking prick. Rafa loves this club just like Kenny. Both are absolute legends. The fact that Kenny holds Rafa in the highest esteem says as much. When you disrespect a legend, such as Kenny, people will get "wound up". People questioning Rafa's character are fucking cunts, because its the one aspect of him which shouldn't be questioned.

 

Don't reply because I know what you're like (RE: the suarez case). fuck off.