The Official Cricket Thread

[Jairzinho]

I'm not quite sure what sort of evidence I could possibly provide really, but he doesn't need to be anything more than a run of the mill county bowler to be a better bowler than Moeen Ali. Moeen Ali is a batting all rounder.

[mouse1989]

I'm not quite sure what sort of evidence I could possibly provide really, but he doesn't need to be anything more than a run of the mill county bowler to be a better bowler than Moeen Ali. Moeen Ali is a batting all rounder.

Ali has helped win Test matches with his bowling last summer against India, who are known for their ability to play spin very well.

 

I know who I'd prefer to be bowling if we are looking to pick up wickets on a day 4/5 pitch.

 

Fair enough if we had 4 excellent quick bowlers and need someone to bowl overs to keep it tight, pick tredwell, because he's better than Ali in that role. However, we don't have that luxury, so you need to pick the spinner who's capable of picking up wickets, which is Ali.

 

Ali will concede more runs, won't be able to bowl spells where it will be easy to rotate the quicks, but will be able to pick up wickets and win Test matches.

[mouse1989]

Would've gambled and had Root bowl an over whilst Smauels is on 94. Should've had mid on and mid off up and tempt him to hit it over the top to get his 100. Hes known for his rashness against spin.

[Jairzinho]

Tredwell has been given the grand total of two test matches, in which he has taken 11 wickets.

[mouse1989]

Tredwell has been given the grand total of two test matches, in which he has taken 11 wickets.

One of those was against Bangladesh and the second he failed to help bowl a team out one day 5 pitch...

[mouse1989]

Ali has proven he can take wickets at this level and win Test matches. Tredwell hasn't

 

Ali started his career as a part time bowler and has developed his bowling in the last few years to actually be classed as an alrounder. Tredwell is an average run of the mill bowler and shouldn't have even made the first test match. Rashid would've been a much better option to have with this seam attack

[Jairzinho]

Yeah, this isn't going to go anywhere. 

 

I don't think Ali is better at any single aspect of bowling off spin than Tredwell is, I don't think it's even remotely close.

[lifetime fan]

J's answered for me. Pointless just quoting his posts.

[mouse1989]

Yeah, this isn't going to go anywhere.

 

I don't think Ali is better at any single aspect of bowling off spin than Tredwell is, I don't think it's even remotely close.

I'll just finish with this. Ali is a more attacking bowler than Tredwell, he gets a lot more spin on his action, and on pitches that will take spin, such as day 4 and 5 he is far more dangerous than Tredwell.

 

As I've said, Tredwell is a better containing bowler, he keeps it tight and would be a better option if we had 4 excellent seam bowlers, which we don't have. Therefore we need our spinner to be able to take wickets and Ali is by far a more attacking spinner

 

I've given my reasons why I believe Ali is a better bowler but yourself and Lifetime have just said Tredwell is without giving any suggestions why. And then simply went he's taken a couple of wickets in his two matches

 

What makes him a better bowler? The fact he couldn't get into the Kent side last summer? Failed to help bowl WI out in the last Test? I would love to know.

 

Btw, Tredwell is a good ODI bowler because he's capable of containing batsmen, he's not there to pick up wickets and does a decent job

[Jairzinho]

More drift, varies his pace better, varies the positioning on the crease he bowls from better, flights the ball better. He simply understands the art of off spin bowling to a level far above that of Ali.

 

We've both just said he is because it's quite hard to believe that someone would think Ali is a better bowler.

[Jose Jones]

I agree with Mouse on this one. 

If Treadwell is a better bowler than Ali it is by a miniscule margin. 

But I think Ali is probably better. 

[mouse1989]

More drift, varies his pace better, varies the positioning on the crease he bowls from better, flights the ball better. He simply understands the art of off spin bowling to a level far above that of Ali.

 

We've both just said he is because it's quite hard to believe that someone would think Ali is a better bowler.

The only thing I agree with there is that about varies his pace better, but that will come with experience. Have you seen Tredwell out fox a batsman with drift often? You've just made Tredwell out to be Vettori with that description...

 

Oh and of course he will a better understand of the art of bowling at these a stage of their careers, he's played much more cricket whereas Ali is developing his game every Test. Despite that lack of experience at first class level, Ali still has shown more in his Test cricket than Tredwell will ever produce.

 

Who would you want as your main spinner going into a day 5 test match when you're looking to force a victory? I know my answer. And it's not the bloke who couldn't get into the Kent team last summer

[Jairzinho]

Okay. As I said, this isn't going anywhere, as I fundamentally disagree with your assessment of both bowlers.

[Son of L8]

Judging Moeen based on what he did in that India series is premature. He bowled really well in the 3rd and 4th Tests and his figures look really good, but you've got to remember that was the point in the series when India were starting to disintegrate. I'm still not sure how much of the series victory was down to us being pretty good and how much was down to them being utter dogshit. It was a meek surrender and former Indian players in the media were fuming over it as I recall.

 

Moeen has played seven Tests. In two of them, he bowled really well and took plenty of wickets: 2 and 6 at the Rose Bowl, 4 for 39 in the second innings in Manchester. He only bowled one over at the Oval, so ignore that. The rest of the India series he went okay and took a few wickets, and was really average in the SL series. You could look at that and say you've got a new bowler finding his feet then cracking on, or you could say he ran into a pathetic Indian batting line-up and just took what was on offer. Whether he can go on to be a proper match-winning spinner is a long way from being proven.

 

I like both players. I think Tredwell is under-rated by a lot of people, because he gets all the basics really well, his variations are really subtle, he doesn't have any firework deliveries, and looks like an accountant on a work's outing at the cricket club. (Copyright LF? I can't remember who said that, but it's perfect.) Ali was a solid second spinner who's developed his game really well. Adding pace to his bowling last summer made a big difference, and he could go on to be a really important player, but I don't think of him as a match-winner yet. A lot of teams will put up more resistance second innings than India did in England last summer.

 

Anyway, both of them should be playing in this match.

[Jose Jones]

Judging Moeen based on what he did in that India series is premature. He bowled really well in the 3rd and 4th Tests and his figures look really good, but you've got to remember that was the point in the series when India were starting to disintegrate. I'm still not sure how much of the series victory was down to us being pretty good and how much was down to them being utter dogshit. It was a meek surrender and former Indian players in the media were fuming over it as I recall.

 

Moeen has played seven Tests. In two of them, he bowled really well and took plenty of wickets: 2 and 6 at the Rose Bowl, 4 for 39 in the second innings in Manchester. He only bowled one over at the Oval, so ignore that. The rest of the India series he went okay and took a few wickets, and was really average in the SL series. You could look at that and say you've got a new bowler finding his feet then cracking on, or you could say he ran into a pathetic Indian batting line-up and just took what was on offer. Whether he can go on to be a proper match-winning spinner is a long way from being proven.

 

I like both players. I think Tredwell is under-rated by a lot of people, because he gets all the basics really well, his variations are really subtle, he doesn't have any firework deliveries, and looks like an accountant on a work's outing at the cricket club. (Copyright LF? I can't remember who said that, but it's perfect.) Ali was a solid second spinner who's developed his game really well. Adding pace to his bowling last summer made a big difference, and he could go on to be a really important player, but I don't think of him as a match-winner yet. A lot of teams will put up more resistance second innings than India did in England last summer.

 

Anyway, both of them should be playing in this match.

 

Yeah, good post.  Should have one out of Jordan or Stokes not both. 

[mouse1989]

This last wicket partnership just shows how good this pitch is

 

I fully expect us to get over 400

[Yozzer]

Nice to see we've still not worked out how to bowl out the tail enders. We've only just about grasped the idea of how to bowl a half decent ball, so maybe I'm asking too much of them.

[mouse1989]

Against this bowling attack and on this pitch, we really should be cashing in. I wouldn't be surprised if both Cook and Trott ton up

[King Emlyn]

Cook looks terrified to me.

[lifetime fan]

Have the ECB replaced Saker?

[lifetime fan]

Judging Moeen based on what he did in that India series is premature. He bowled really well in the 3rd and 4th Tests and his figures look really good, but you've got to remember that was the point in the series when India were starting to disintegrate. I'm still not sure how much of the series victory was down to us being pretty good and how much was down to them being utter dogshit. It was a meek surrender and former Indian players in the media were fuming over it as I recall.

 

Moeen has played seven Tests. In two of them, he bowled really well and took plenty of wickets: 2 and 6 at the Rose Bowl, 4 for 39 in the second innings in Manchester. He only bowled one over at the Oval, so ignore that. The rest of the India series he went okay and took a few wickets, and was really average in the SL series. You could look at that and say you've got a new bowler finding his feet then cracking on, or you could say he ran into a pathetic Indian batting line-up and just took what was on offer. Whether he can go on to be a proper match-winning spinner is a long way from being proven.

 

I like both players. I think Tredwell is under-rated by a lot of people, because he gets all the basics really well, his variations are really subtle, he doesn't have any firework deliveries, and looks like an accountant on a work's outing at the cricket club. (Copyright LF? I can't remember who said that, but it's perfect.) Ali was a solid second spinner who's developed his game really well. Adding pace to his bowling last summer made a big difference, and he could go on to be a really important player, but I don't think of him as a match-winner yet. A lot of teams will put up more resistance second innings than India did in England last summer.

 

Anyway, both of them should be playing in this match.

Not me mate.

[alles ist gut]

Have the ECB replaced Saker?

 

Saker resigned to go back home and coach an Aussie T20 team, so the ECB went back to Ottis Gibson.

[lifetime fan]

Saker resigned to go back home and coach an Aussie T20 team, so the ECB went back to Ottis Gibson.

You couldn't make it up.

[alles ist gut]

You couldn't make it up.

 

Not least the idea that someone wanting to actually win something would go to the trouble of headhunting Saker.

[rubble-rouser]

A lovely piece on Jesse Ryder,

 

 http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/865093.html