We Have To Accept Some Harsh Facts

[PaulMcC]

I love Kenny, I'd never disrespect him but I'll criticise some of the things he's done wrong (IMO) on here.

[Guest TK-421]

I don't see anyone giving him grief or personal abuse.

[clangers]

The season hasn't developed as well as we'd hoped so far, we could still find ourselves ending the season with a cup win and 4th place.

 

We're just finding out how difficult it really is to break back in to the top four but lets face it, Chelsea and Arsenal are hardly running away with it.

 

We haven't had our two best players (Suarez and Gerrard) on the pitch together for any length of time this season, lets see where we are in a month or so's time with hopefully both players in form. We'll look like a very different prospect then I suspect.

 

Frankly fuck it, I'm as bad as anyone for 'the seasons a disaster if we don't get 4th'. Really? I'd be delighted with a day out at a final, any final. You never know actually winning something, anything, might give our squad a bigger boost building confidence better than any dip into the transfer market.

[RobbieOR]

If you're saying that we had a great attacking unit last year it would good to remember that there was absolutely no pressure at all on us last year. That's why Dalglish threw Flanagan and Robinson in. Because we had nothing to lose. We were pouring men into the box because our season is over. This season there has been much more pressure on the team because we have spent money and everyone really thought we would make a good go of it for at least fourth, maybe even third. I dont think that has helped the players at all and you can see that when we dont score after 20 minutes at home, the crowd starts to get edgy, its transpires onto the pitch, the players start worrying and we dont score.

 

Section is right, everyone got carried away. We've spent around £110m since last January and last year everyone on these boards would have agreed that it would take alot more than that to break into the top 4.

 

A world class team was ripped apart in front of our eyes for two years, and we still arent that far away. We are nearly in a cup final and still on the tails of fourth. I think this time last year if I was told we would be in this position in 12 months I would have taken it.

 

You have to learn to walk before you can run you know.

[Section_31]

I don't understand why people think this is a bad season. We're not getting battered week in and week out, nor is the squad devoid of talent and neither is it seemingly an unhappy squad. We're loitering below the top four but have a worse squad than we've had in years, a squad which lost world class talent like Torres and Mascherano and which has been deprived of Gerrard, arguably the greatest Liverpool player of the last twenty years if not of all time, a player who - alone - has constituted between 25%-50% of our creative and attacking threat for the last ten years.

 

I also think to say people don't like criticizing Dalglish because he's a legend is also pretty patronising. People don't like criticising him because it's only just past Christmas in his first full season in charge, has managed to shift out all of our dead wood, and has brought belief and spirit back to the players and the club.

[silverlining]

I disagree robbie

 

If we'd spent the money on better players than downing, Carroll, Henderson and Adam then I think we'd certainly be in a better position than we are

 

Fact is, given 80m nobody on this site (apart from one or two mentalists) would have chosen those players, and the team performance and position we are in would seem to reflect that we certainly did not buy wisely

 

It isn't surprising but it is annoying and we can't afford any more overpriced mediocrities or utter disasters

[RobbieOR]

I disagree robbie

 

If we'd spent the money on better players than downing, Carroll, Henderson and Adam then I think we'd certainly be in a better position than we are

 

Fact is, given 80m nobody on this site (apart from one or two mentalists) would have chosen those players, and the team performance and position we are in would seem to reflect that we certainly did not buy wisely

 

It isn't surprising but it is annoying and we can't afford any more overpriced mediocrities or utter disasters

 

Maybe, but then you could also say if Gerrard wasnt missing for most of the season then we would have an entirely different position with the goals he brings to the side.

 

We could and probably should have bought better, but you can just see we are one or two signings away from being a force. (Although we have heard that a million times before)

[Iceman]

The Andy Carroll 35million spunkage was a shock but kind of understandable, given the huge attacking and emotional hole that vagfacepoof leaving had created, and the lack of time we had to find a suitable replacement.

 

What I have trouble with is the fee for Hendo and paying 20m for Downing. That was done in the cold light of day as it were, and it is a shit load of cash to pay. (We got hammered for jumping on the Fairplay bus, before it had left the terminal.)

 

The problem with paying such high fees for players is the pressure and scrutiny that it brings. Yes, you get your man and blow all other bids out of the water BUT unless the player makes a flying start or has the "I'm a fucking superstar" temperament, they usually have trouble living up to the (rightly) high demands that such a huge fee carries.

 

If you spend big money you better be signing "big game" personalities.

[piscinin]

Maybe, but then you could also say if Gerrard wasnt missing for most of the season then we would have an entirely different position with the goals he brings to the side.

 

We could and probably should have bought better, but you can just see we are one or two signings away from being a force. (Although we have heard that a million times before)

 

And everyone above us is 2 signings away from being even more better than us than they are now.

[Iceman]

.

[Iceman]

I still think if we get a striker and start scoring, we can be up there at end of season.

 

Crucial few weeks. If we don't sign anyone it's disappointing. We can still get 4th.

[Guest TK-421]

And everyone above us is 2 signings away from being even more better than us than they are now.

 

And Chelsea have just signed one!

[Phoenix]

And Chelsea have just signed one!

 

is it hazard?

[Iceman]

Chelsea are on the edge of being good again, but AVB is very fragile, and goons aren't great, it's the perfect time for us to apply some pressure with an attacking signing or two.

[Iceman]

is it hazard?

 

Cahill isn't it?

[Guest TK-421]

Cahill isn't it?

 

Gold star to that man.

[PaulMcC]

If you're saying that we had a great attacking unit last year it would good to remember that there was absolutely no pressure at all on us last year. That's why Dalglish threw Flanagan and Robinson in. Because we had nothing to lose. We were pouring men into the box because our season is over. This season there has been much more pressure on the team because we have spent money and everyone really thought we would make a good go of it for at least fourth, maybe even third. I dont think that has helped the players at all and you can see that when we dont score after 20 minutes at home, the crowd starts to get edgy, its transpires onto the pitch, the players start worrying and we dont score.

 

Section is right, everyone got carried away. We've spent around £110m since last January and last year everyone on these boards would have agreed that it would take alot more than that to break into the top 4.

 

A world class team was ripped apart in front of our eyes for two years, and we still arent that far away. We are nearly in a cup final and still on the tails of fourth. I think this time last year if I was told we would be in this position in 12 months I would have taken it.

 

You have to learn to walk before you can run you know.

 

More than 110m to break in to the top 4? I wouldn't have agreed with that?

[etho]

We have spent the money to be able to at least get into the top 4. Before the last injury ridden, money problem season with Rafa we were part of 'the top 4', and last season doesn't count due to financial crippling, and Hodgson for the first half.

 

Kenny has a side that is solid at the back (signing of Enrique excellent), and clearly the work on the coaching ground has paid off as defensively Johnson, Skrtel and Agger are the best in this league.

 

The midfield is 'functional'. Not amazing, not awful.

 

Where we fall short is, that as we have a 35 million striker that can't score/doesn't fit into our style of play, and a 20 million pound winger who isn't pacy, doesn't have the mentality to play at a top club which is why he's 27 and never has before, and generally isn't up to standard/doesn't pull his weight.

 

Kenny, as much as I think in terms of how he's got the team playing, and is managing the team, bought both of those in, and unless the board backs them to replace them (why would they) will die by both of those 2. Because we still need those 2 players to compete, and those 2 will be moving on in the next year or two for a fraction of what we paid = poor managerial decision/failure

[Hermes]

I expected at least 70 points this season. I still think we'll get that but so far we have under performed for the money spent under Kenny.

 

Carroll, Henderson and Adam were signed on the evidence of one good season each. Never a good basis for a signing.

 

Some people have scoffed at the suggestion Kenny may be sacked. Nobody has backed him more than me but less than 70 points and outside the top 4 I would expect the owners to be considering a change of manager. I know I would be if I was in henry's position, certainly I'd be asking Kenny for a reason for the teams failure.

[ngogswilly]

 

Kenny, as much as I think in terms of how he's got the team playing, and is managing the team, bought both of those in, and unless the board backs them to replace them (why would they) will die by both of those 2. Because we still need those 2 players to compete, and those 2 will be moving on in the next year or two for a fraction of what we paid = poor managerial decision/failure

 

Its not impossible that both those players won't eventually come good though.

 

I think Carroll once upon a time was a fantastic prospect. I remember seeing him in the Championship for Newcastle and thinking "Fucking hell this lads going to be a beast"...then he came to the Premiership and for half a year he was unstoppable.

 

So deep down, there has to be something there. Whether we'll ever unlock it is a different story.

 

Downing is another one, hes been underwhelming at best for us, downright crap at the worst. But hes never been a bad player. Just always very average. If we can get Average back then thats at least something.

[Coro]

 

Some people have scoffed at the suggestion Kenny may be sacked. Nobody has backed him more than me but less than 70 points and outside the top 4 I would expect the owners to be considering a change of manager. I know I would be if I was in henry's position, certainly I'd be asking Kenny for a reason for the teams failure.

 

:lol: Blimey days. How many people are adjusting their perspectives after reading that?

 

Its not impossible that both those players won't eventually come good though.

 

Exactly. You'd think having seen the improvement of certain players under Dalglish who have been written off in the past, people would be a little less hasty in writing off players he's brought in, some of them having only been at the club half a season.

[Guest TK-421]

I expected at least 70 points this season. I still think we'll get that but so far we have under performed for the money spent under Kenny.

 

Looks like a tall order unless something very positive happens in the transfer market. 35 points required from a possible 51 with games against Man U (away), Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Newcastle (away), a derby and more away games than home games left (9 and 8 respectively). Two away games next up with two huge cup ties sandwiched in between and a hitherto unsolved goal drought. Games to come against teams fighting at both ends of the table. Big ask to get 70 points.

[piscinin]

I expected at least 70 points this season. I still think we'll get that but so far we have under performed for the money spent under Kenny.

 

Carroll, Henderson and Adam were signed on the evidence of one good season each. Never a good basis for a signing.

 

Some people have scoffed at the suggestion Kenny may be sacked. Nobody has backed him more than me but less than 70 points and outside the top 4 I would expect the owners to be considering a change of manager. I know I would be if I was in henry's position, certainly I'd be asking Kenny for a reason for the teams failure.

 

While they might consider it, there are plenty of question marks to my mind.

 

They gave hodgson longer than he deserved. They wanted him to succeed.

 

They know they are not on the fast track. They came out of their initial meeting with the players saying, some players want us to move faster than we can. Whether they can't move fast enough because of their business model or because Dalglish is 1/3 in the transfer market doesn't matter. They need to play the long game.

 

If the rumours are to be believed money will shortly be getting diverted to building a stadium. That's going to effect squad investment. It's also going to require a manager with enough skin in the game to realize the club has to come before what he needs to succeed as an individual. And smart enough to manage the fans, players etc.

 

If he can stay in touch (and from their perspective) hold the brand together. They will give him a generous amount of latitude. Because there's gonna be some rough times over the next couple of years they'll need him more than he needs them IMO.

 

And every day Kenny will get a better and better idea of what it means to be a manager NOW.

[Hermes]

While they might consider it, there are plenty of question marks to my mind.

 

They gave hodgson longer than he deserved. They wanted him to succeed.

 

They know they are not on the fast track. They came out of their initial meeting with the players saying, some players want us to move faster than we can. Whether they can't move fast enough because of their business model or because Dalglish is 1/3 in the transfer market doesn't matter. They need to play the long game.

 

If the rumours are to be believed money will shortly be getting diverted to building a stadium. That's going to effect squad investment. It's also going to require a manager with enough skin in the game to realize the club has to come before what he needs to succeed as an individual. And smart enough to manage the fans, players etc.

 

If he can stay in touch (and from their perspective) hold the brand together. They will give him a generous amount of latitude. Because there's gonna be some rough times over the next couple of years they'll need him more than he needs them IMO.

 

And every day Kenny will get a better and better idea of what it means to be a manager NOW.

 

Some good points there. But at this point in time - he's failed. How anybody can dispute that I'd like to know why they think 7th place is a success.

[ngogswilly]

While they might consider it, there are plenty of question marks to my mind.

 

They gave hodgson longer than he deserved. They wanted him to succeed.

 

They know they are not on the fast track. They came out of their initial meeting with the players saying, some players want us to move faster than we can. Whether they can't move fast enough because of their business model or because Dalglish is 1/3 in the transfer market doesn't matter. They need to play the long game.

 

If the rumours are to be believed money will shortly be getting diverted to building a stadium. That's going to effect squad investment. It's also going to require a manager with enough skin in the game to realize the club has to come before what he needs to succeed as an individual. And smart enough to manage the fans, players etc.

 

If he can stay in touch (and from their perspective) hold the brand together. They will give him a generous amount of latitude. Because there's gonna be some rough times over the next couple of years they'll need him more than he needs them IMO.

 

And every day Kenny will get a better and better idea of what it means to be a manager NOW.

 

I sort of have an ominous feeling about the new stadium. Not to say I'm against it. I think its the future.

 

But it could mean the next 4-5 years could be very rocky.

 

Obviously funds are going to be primarily heading towards that, obviously there will be plenty of deals and sponsorships that will cover costs. But I'd be surprised if we have a nice big transfer kitty every season until its built.

 

It could mean 2/3 years minimum struggling to keep up with the top 5 ahead of us and once we've built the stadium another 2/3 years of rebuilding a new team.

 

Like you say, its the long game and its just the way it has to be. But it doesn't make it any easier to swallow.

 

In saying that, who knows. We could build the stadium and still somehow build a brilliant team during that time. Life is full of uncertainties.