Lucas - more tackles than any OTHER PL player

[myrlas]

The type of tackle that Djimi Traore, or any other LB might require to do being faced by quick, tricky wingers knocking the ball past him

is quite different to the type of tackle that a CM player might do.

 

I see your point and raise you with Momo Sissoko.

[Idiot Patrol]

Good squad player, but we can do better. CM is an area we need to strengthen, not because of him, mainly because sometimes we have to use Poulsen. If we get someone in to CM, they should be better than him, but he should still stay. I think he has had a good season and i like his attitude.

 

this is a perfect summary of the whole lucas debate

 

the lad is decent, and has improved but centre md is a crucial position and we can do better.

 

we have to try new things as what we have done for the last two seasons isnt working....

 

we have had lucas in the middle and kuyt on the right for 2 seasons now and its just not working out

 

he would be a great squad player, for cups games, injuries and early european rounds.

 

but we desperatly need charlie adam in our squad i think.

[silverlining]

this is a perfect summary of the whole lucas debate

 

the lad is decent, and has improved but centre md is a crucial position and we can do better.

 

we have to try new things as what we have done for the last two seasons isnt working....

 

we have had lucas in the middle and kuyt on the right for 2 seasons now and its just not working out

 

he would be a great squad player, for cups games, injuries and early european rounds.

 

but we desperatly need charlie adam in our squad i think.

 

Wow. Banned in three minutes! Who ARE you?

[Gym Beglin]

Wow. Banned in three minutes! Who ARE you?

 

Terrific stuff from the rookie, puts seasoned moaners like Mypost to shame.

100% strike rate.

[silverlining]

Terrific stuff from the rookie, puts seasoned moaners like Mypost to shame.

100% strike rate.

 

Well, given his one post didn't contain anything too contentious (even if it was badly spelled) one can only assume he's on a Ban Hitlist and has been here before in another guise.

 

That said, some ninja moderating going on.

[gkmacca]

The question I would ask is why does a player need to tackle?

 

Is it poor positioning combined with lack of pace or are there other reasons?

 

Astonishing.

[goatboy59]

Is this a merged thread? I seem to be reading the same shit as before, even that godawful song has reappeared.

 

The tackles thing sounds a bit like Houllier's Corners, but once again on the list of priorities to fix Lucas doesn't come very high.

 

Any player capable of what he has done against Chelsea this season - twice - clearly needs to be persisted with.

[gkmacca]

this is a perfect summary of the whole lucas debate

 

the lad is decent, and has improved but centre md is a crucial position and we can do better.

 

we have to try new things as what we have done for the last two seasons isnt working....

 

we have had lucas in the middle and kuyt on the right for 2 seasons now and its just not working out

 

he would be a great squad player, for cups games, injuries and early european rounds.

 

but we desperatly need charlie adam in our squad i think.

 

Thanks for your call, Darren of Thetford.

[Strontium]

Lucas is like ancient Greek poetry, you either get it or you're a stupid bastard.

[Joe Le Taxi]

The Castrol rankings?! Wow.

 

Anyway, I don't think anyone thinks we can't improve on Lucas. Most teams in the Premiership have one or more better CM players.

 

I hope and pray Kenny replaces him next season, but the biggest debate is what *type* of player we should be after.

 

Ideally, I'd buy a Top Quality Destroyer, who can also pass a bit better than, say, Masher. Then we could play TQD, Ming and Gerrard in a midfield three behind Carroll, Suarez and TQW.

 

Lucas can play in the Carling Cup or another team. I don't really give a fuck.

 

Spot on really. I know you seem to be against him, and I treat him like he saved me from a burning building but he shouldn't be first choice if we want to improve. As it stands, he is a good player for us and we should keep him but the point you make about a destroyer is spot on. However, when we had Masch, he was limited in his passing ability and he wasn't the most creative midfielder around but someone like Banega who can tackle and pass would be perfect for us.

 

Another would be Moussa Sissoko, if only for his Football Manager credentials...

 

"None of the great Liverpool teams/ great sides/ Barcelona had a player who was good at tackling, because they didn't need to tackle, because they kept the ball all the time".

 

If he says this, or anything like this, I am going to hunt Code down and beat him to death with a studded baseball bat.

 

Please, do it anyway.

[INTORRESTING]

He has improved but I don't really want our players making loads of tackles, I want us to have the ball!

 

What are the stats for most fouled player?

[dirty_sanchez]

The question I would ask is why does a player need to tackle?

 

Is it poor positioning combined with lack of pace or are there other reasons?

 

Fair point. Why are we even bothering with defenders or goalkeepers?

[Guest PurpleNose]

He has improved but I don't really want our players making loads of tackles, I want us to have the ball!

 

What are the stats for most fouled player?

 

Probably someone that dribbles a lot. Like John Terry.

[Trumo]

What are the stats for most fouled player?

 

No idea, but I can safely say that in the past 5 years we've had two strikers who have probably had more fouls given against them than vice versa. One of them could barely challenge for an aerial ball without the ref blowing up for an elbow or some such shite, and the other frequently got booted around the pitch by defenders, only to get booked for being a moaning cunt when pointing it out to the ref.

[silverlining]

He has improved but I don't really want our players making loads of tackles, I want us to have the ball!

 

What are the stats for most fouled player?

 

Most fouled player is often one who also fouls a lot.

 

ie a player involved in lots of 50:50 challenges which the ref gets right as often as wrong.

 

So probably Kevin Davies or similar.

[Sugar Ape]

Wow. Banned in three minutes! Who ARE you?

 

Surely he is king luis, aka sgerrard?

[aws]

Most fouled player is often one who also fouls a lot.

 

ie a player involved in lots of 50:50 challenges which the ref gets right as often as wrong.

 

So probably Kevin Davies or similar.

 

Kevin Davies is usually around the top of both lists.

[silverlining]

Surely he is king luis, aka sgerrard?

 

Ah. But of course.

[ChicagoRed]

He looked poor alongside Mascherano but since Masch left, he's done a great job in that holding role. He is also a much better passer of the ball than last year. All he needs is to get on the scoresheet a bit more often and he'll be the complete modern holding midfielder.

[Guest TK-421]

The Premier Leagues 40th best midfielder:

 

FULL CASTROL RANKINGS | Castrol Football | Official Sponsor UEFA EURO 2012™

 

A bit pointless comparing Lucas with Aaron Lennon and Ryan Giggs. Might as well throw Petr Cech into the mix.

 

Anyway, I don't think anyone thinks we can't improve on Lucas. Most teams in the Premiership have one or more better CM players.

 

We can't improve on Lucas.

[sir roger]

Very few young lads from a totally different culture would have stuck it out under the amount of abuse he has received.

 

He has not only survived, but improved and become a valuable member of the squad while also ( on the evidence of Sunday particularly ) a very popular person in the dressing room.

 

I tip my hat to him & while I can accept that forumites may want him to be sold, what I don't understand is why this eminently likeable guy who seemingly epitomises the positive aspects espoused in the 'Liverpool Way' is subjected to such vitriol.

[Section_31]

He looked poor alongside Mascherano but since Masch left, he's done a great job in that holding role. He is also a much better passer of the ball than last year. All he needs is to get on the scoresheet a bit more often and he'll be the complete modern holding midfielder.

 

Mother of God!

 

See this thread sums up the whole Lucas/Kuyt issue. Nobody is saying they're the worst players in the world and they're not top of our list of problems, and yes, they probably have a place in a Liverpool squad, all things being even - but let's get a grip eh? Lucas is not a good player, he's nowhere near being a First XI player.

 

It's like we've seen so many shite players and shite football in the last couple of years that we've come to appreciate things such as 'running up and down a lot' and 'sticking a foot in' far more than we should. We've become almost fevourishly obsessed with defending players who show even the basics of footballing ability from coming under attack, like a man with a fat girlfriend who is overly paranoid that people are looking at her, and yet secretly longs to date a slim blonde, instead turning the resentment he feels at himself for his own guilt against others who would mock her.

 

It's baffling to me. Don't abuse the lad by any means, but don't try and convince me he deserves praise because he's not as shit as he was last year and is living in a foreign country.

[Coro]

Player gets praise for putting in good performances.

 

Oh, the shame of it.

[Section_31]

Player gets praise for putting in good performances.

 

Oh, the shame of it.

 

I don't have an issue with that, I have an issue with people being pulled up for calling him what he is - a distinctly average footballer. But this is how things have gone of late, whether it be Rafa, Kuyt and now Lucas. Someone says 'I think he's bog average' someone replies 'you're a moron and quite clearly can't see what he adds to the team.' I remember when people used to have individual opinions rather than divide themself into one of two camps.

 

Saying Lucas isn't far from being the complete modern midiflder is the kind of stuff Murdock's hand puppet used to say when Face was breaking him out of hospital.

[Hermes]

Very few young lads from a totally different culture would have stuck it out under the amount of abuse he has received.

 

 

Yeah, he could have gone to Stoke City or err.......Stoke City.