Rafa- it's time to go

[Barrington Womble]

Were not going to go Pop or get relegated however in the scenario I painted we will become a nothing club like Everton & Spurs. Fortunately are brand name and income would see us through the short term. It would be a long slow death not a short one. The reallity is very clear RBS want the debt down to 125m next july they have 3 options

 

1 Refinance with another bank who would be happy to lend 200m

2 Find an investor to put money into it

3 Sell 100m worth of assets

 

Now ask yourself which is the most likely in that scenario.

 

I don't doubt they might consider selling assets - but it will defeat their aim of making a profit because we will implode. you seem to think we'll become and everton or spurs ... well i think we're in a worse position to them as we have a wage bill that is so high the can't sustain it without CL football. We will need to get rid of a load of players to pay the bank and another load to reduce the wage bill, very similar in fact to the pain Leeds went through. We are fucked the moment we don't get CL football, and if you want to ensure we don't get it, sell Garrard and Torres, because in 12 months we'd be mid table at the very, very best and imo much lower and within another 12 months we could be history. don't fool yourself this is all alright and the worst that could happen is we become everton, it can get far, far worse than that.

[Guest LFD]

If Benitez goes I don't know who can do a better job:

 

Mourinho?

Hiddink?

 

Both not guaranteed to come, plus we'd still have the same problems. They won't be guaranteed funds from sales, as Benitez hasn't been. They won't get more resources, so they'd be struggling to compete with Chelsea, Man City and United in the market. They'd still struggle if we lose our best players and we currently have ten injuries in the first team.

 

The one thing that might happen is our record in Europe suffers and we need this in order to remain competitve and Benitez has turned us into one of the best sides in the Champions League and generated a vital 100 million from that competition.

 

That and the small factor that we can't afford to pay him off, which would cost us 20 million.

 

It makes sense for him to finish off his project and for us to back him, as we're more likely to take steps back without him than improve, in my opinion.

[Red Nick]

I don't doubt they might consider selling assets - but it will defeat their aim of making a profit because we will implode. you seem to think we'll become and everton or spurs ... well i think we're in a worse position to them as we have a wage bill that is so high the can't sustain it without CL football. We will need to get rid of a load of players to pay the bank and another load to reduce the wage bill, very similar in fact to the pain Leeds went through. We are fucked the moment we don't get CL football, and if you want to ensure we don't get it, sell Garrard and Torres, because in 12 months we'd be mid table at the very, very best and imo much lower and within another 12 months we could be history. don't fool yourself this is all alright and the worst that could happen is we become everton, it can get far, far worse than that.

 

I totally accept what your saying, I dont quite see it in such dark terms. However the point you are missing is if they have to raise 100m and dont have the money and cant get another bank or Investor they will have the choice of selling 100m worth of assets or letting RBS forclose which they would never allow to happen. In this scenario we could only hope that RBS insisted that there were no major players sales but such action would mean them forclosing.

 

Its clear cut unless they magic monies from somewhere else

[zigackly]

If Benitez goes I don't know who can do a better job

 

Which fact does not preclude someone from doing it.

 

The problem is the depth of the gamble, not the lack of any positive outcomes.

[Vulmea]

or realising that actually what you are expecting isn't doable without a lot of luck, and a lot of patience

 

you want somebody to come in and create a team that outperforms 3 or 4 other teams who already have more expensive players and the ability to out bid you for any players you do want - whilst working for not one but two greedy, untrustworthy liars and at the same time managing the expectations of 'fans' who believe its their birthright to win trophies and will not accept any argument to the contrary -people will be queuing up

[zigackly]

I think it would be very difficult to guarantee that a replacement would be able to come in and win the league but that doesn't preclude the possibility, and discounting it entirely because a narrow-minded shortlist may not be immediately available is naive.

 

I've said elsewhere that I don't believe in replacing managers mid-season and I stand by that, but I do think sometimes a good manager can stagnate and fresh ideas might effect a big change without a sweeping change to the playing personnel. My personal belief is that Benitez may have gone as far as he can at LFC: I've certainly lost a lot of faith in him cumulatively over the last few seasons.

 

Whether it's time for a replacement or not, I don't know. I'd like to see how he goes for the rest of the season, and think about it in the summer when we will know more about where we are on and off the field and who might be available.

[Carlos Durninio]

'fans' who believe its their birthright to win trophies

 

Yeah, that's us. You could always fuck off and support a club closer to Essex with no expecations, whose weak 'fans' are happy to wallow in their mediocrity?

[Funkasy]

 

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[Funkasy]

Yeah, that's us. You could always fuck off and support a club closer to Essex with no expecations, whose weak 'fans' are happy to wallow in their mediocrity?

 

But this club is not what it used to be. so why are you telling fans to fuck of ?? HOW DO YOU EVEN DARE THAT??? The manager we have now has given more to the club then the 15years before he even came.. SO WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU ?

 

 

i bet you expect you parents to give you a good childhood, but that didnt work either did it ??

 

edit: sorry for saying that, i didn't mean it.

[Vulmea]

I think it would be very difficult to guarantee that a replacement would be able to come in and win the league but that doesn't preclude the possibility, and discounting it entirely because a narrow-minded shortlist may not be immediately available is naive.

 

I've said elsewhere that I don't believe in replacing managers mid-season and I stand by that, but I do think sometimes a good manager can stagnate and fresh ideas might effect a big change without a sweeping change to the playing personnel. My personal belief is that Benitez may have gone as far as he can at LFC: I've certainly lost a lot of faith in him cumulatively over the last few seasons.

 

Whether it's time for a replacement or not, I don't know. I'd like to see how he goes for the rest of the season, and think about it in the summer when we will know more about where we are on and off the field and who might be available.

 

Good answer - its possible somebody could come in and get more from the players, its possible Benitez may have gone as far as he can - but the reaction based on a dozen games is insane and given our current set up asking the 'owners' to find somebody who could achieve it?

 

I dont mind criticism of Benitez its the nonsense about transfers, subs and our right to win that annoys me. There are some good managers out there but they have to be better than good, they have to be exceptional.

 

For me rafa is better than good and it still to be decided on whether he's exceptional. I wonder how Wenger would perform if he arrived in the Prem now.

[Vulmea]

Yeah, that's us. You could always fuck off and support a club closer to Essex with no expecations, whose weak 'fans' are happy to wallow in their mediocrity?

 

you really dont get it do you boy

 

it is you that are wallowing in self pity based on a few too many defeats - you that have no bottle, screaming for the managers head like a kid without its dummy

 

I live in Essex - doesn't mean I'm from essex - its where I work - Southend in are going through a shit time - one thing their fans aren't is 'weak' - your arrogance and ignorance are sickening - as it happens I was born and bred in Old Swan there til my mid 20's - most of my family still live in Liverpool - I do have a vague idea of what the City is about - but I've no doubt you'd be a bellend wherever you where

 

now take a deep breath and then wait for your balls to drop

[Carlos Durninio]

It's based on 6 seasons, you clueless tosser, which makes your belittling of our fans at every opportunity all the more laughable. He's had plenty of time and patience, like all our managers do. That's what puts us up there with the best, even with snide defeatist shithouses like you clinging to mediocrity.

 

Spout what you like about Benitez, I'm sick of him and his blind faith disciples sticking their head in the sand, just fuck off with your sweeping statments about our fans to boost your huge superfan ego.

[zigackly]

Good answer - its possible somebody could come in and get more from the players, its possible Benitez may have gone as far as he can - but the reaction based on a dozen games is insane and given our current set up asking the 'owners' to find somebody who could achieve it?

 

I dont mind criticism of Benitez its the nonsense about transfers, subs and our right to win that annoys me. There are some good managers out there but they have to be better than good, they have to be exceptional.

 

It's hard to disagree with that, so I'm not going to.

 

I do fear that he's lost his way though. My big hope for this season was that we would have learned the lessons of previous seasons and start off flying, as if we meant to be champions. For whatever reasons that did not emerge at all, and the current injury/illness crisis is exacerbating our poor start, but is not the cause of it.

 

We would have to go on an exceptional run to convince me that we haven't missed a chance to kick on. I realise that the owners have shafted us to an extent in missing an opportunity to strengthen more than our rivals, but our rivals have not strengthened greatly either; in fact the contrary in the Mancs case, but they do not appear to have collapsed in a footballing sense. We have.

[Vulmea]

It's hard to disagree with that, so I'm not going to.

 

I do fear that he's lost his way though. My big hope for this season was that we would have learned the lessons of previous seasons and start off flying, as if we meant to be champions. For whatever reasons that did not emerge at all, and the current injury/illness crisis is exacerbating our poor start, but is not the cause of it.

 

We would have to go on an exceptional run to convince me that we haven't missed a chance to kick on. I realise that the owners have shafted us to an extent in missing an opportunity to strengthen more than our rivals, but our rivals have not strengthened greatly either; in fact the contrary in the Mancs case, but they do not appear to have collapsed in a footballing sense. We have.

 

Our main rivals didn't strengthen - but the likes of Spurs, Sunderland, Everton, and Villa arguably did and three of those have beaten us already.

 

I agree this season has not felt 'right' since we didn't turn up at Spurs - the missing ingredient appears to be belief - not the quality of the players, depth of squad, tactics or subs - but the belief we can win.

 

Rafa is there to provide that - there have been glimpses away at Bolton, away at West Ham, Home to Burnley, home to united but little more - at the moment whether we rise or fall is based on factors outside the team - a beach ball, a sending off, player injured - we are just too fragile - a run of defeats may do that to you but it doesn't explain the spurs game where we looked like we where still in pre-season and they are the type of criticisms I can understand because the manager is there to manage

 

trying to second guess why he's subbed Torres or claiming he's had enough to spend when clearly others have had more or slating his transfer policy when its better than 95% of other managers I can't get behind.

 

Thing is I still think put our best team out and we could win every game, so he must have done something right (and oddly is why someone else coming in could do a job as you suggested).

[derykw]

Who could do better than Rafa?

 

Well with a 50% loss ratio this season the question should be `who the fuck could do worse`.