Israel - A Rant

[ZonkoVille77]

37 minutes ago, Funkasy said:

Ah sorry, your clearly sick.

 

Fuck sake, we have another Israeli apologist. What's wrong with you genocide supporting cunts?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Using your social media accounts to admit to committing war crimes probably ain’t the wisest idea. 
 

You have to wonder if this genocidal intent is widespread amongst the murderers? 
 

 

[Jurgen Knows]

12 hours ago, Nelly-Szoboszlai said:

Using your social media accounts to admit to committing war crimes probably ain’t the wisest idea. 

Why not? They have impunity.

[Gnasher]

Americas policy for Gaza tweak. 

 

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Those bloody Americans, constantly invading lands in the Middle East. 
 

It’s nice to see the IDF just standing by and watching (or providing military support) while possible war crimes are committed. 
 

 

[Gnasher]

Proud to be British. 

 

 

 

[Jurgen Knows]

Rest in peace little angels. This whole world is not worth your poop.

[Gnasher]

Liverpool yesterday.

 

 

 

 

Cardiff..

 

 

Arrests..none. 

 

 

[Gnasher]

 

 

[Gnasher]

New York. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

I take it the whole country missed the Rihsi Friday night extremism speech. I think a million is pushing it a bit though. Maybe throughout the UK  

 

 

 

 

[Creator Supreme]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

 

Contemptible set of bastards, a fucking pox on them.

[Jurgen Knows]

Selling stolen land.

 

[Jurgen Knows]

[TheHowieLama]

Four months of warfare between Israel and Hamas have generated regional and global dynamics that will shape the Middle East for decades. But the war in Gaza has already clarified two deeply linked central dimensions of the Middle East: Arab states’ low-key, rhetoric-heavy response to the Gaza war and Hamas, and the new reality that those who actually fight and resist Israel and the United States across the region are Arab non-state armed actors (NSAAs) with close ties to Iran. These two symbiotic phenomena indicate how Arab states have become politically and militarily passive in the face of stronger adversaries—and hint at the future Middle East order if prevailing conditions persist.

The Arab states offered Gazans, Hamas, and the larger Palestinian cause a combination of low-key rhetorical, material, and diplomatic support that seemed almost imperceptible and that ultimately was powerless on the global political stage. The support achieved none of the desired goals of reducing or stopping Israel’s attacks, providing Gazans with sufficient aid, or guaranteeing a full Israeli withdrawal from the Strip.

As Arab governments could neither fight Israel nor remain neutral, they made familiar but mostly symbolic steps—issuing statements, holding summits, lobbying and voting for United Nations resolutions, calling for a ceasefire, withdrawing their ambassadors from Israel (Jordan), demanding humanitarian assistance to Gaza, publicly criticizing Israeli aggression, and supporting Palestinian rights. Some pleaded in vain with the United States and other powers to make Israel respect international law and avoid attacking civilians.

When the Arab states could not confront familiar imperial tormentors in Tel Aviv, London, and Washington, they by default left the heavy lifting to the regional network of NSAAs. Hamas in Palestine, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Ansar Allah in Yemen, the Popular Mobilization Forces (PMF) and half a dozen smaller militant groups in Syria and Iraq are supported by Iran, with whom they form the “Axis of Resistance.”

These NSAAs, which have all emerged since the 1980s, are anchored in the nationalist identities and interests of their own states and espouse Islamist ideologies. They enjoy sophisticated military capabilities along with the will to use them as they pursue common interests in resisting Israeli and Western imperial threats. And they all have close relations with, and support from, non-Arab Iran. The current Gaza war saw their network activated for the first time at a coordinated regional level, as their member groups fought against Israel or the United States and United Kingdom on the Israel-Lebanon border and in Gaza, Yemen, Iraq, and Syria.

The passive Arab governments and the NSAAs are both products of the Middle East’s twin calamities over the last century. The first is the modern Arab state system’s legacy of erratic, often corrupt and incompetent, non-democratic governance, which has led to low-quality statecraft and chronic national vulnerability and dependence. The second calamity is Zionism’s non-stop geographical and political expansion since the 1930s, despite repeated costly but unsuccessful pan-Arab attempts to check it.

https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/arab-states-have-supported-and-shunned-hamas-in-the-gaza-war/

 

Five Arab nations are quietly touting a settlement for postwar Gaza for which they’ve secured the backing of the US. The problem is that the Israelis on whom the agreement depends aren’t buying it.

That means the proposal, which its authors are calling the most plausible solution for long-term security in the region, is out of reach for now. Two of the many officials who spoke with Bloomberg are privately asserting that progress toward it won’t be possible so long as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s right-wing coalition stays in power.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-19/israel-isn-t-buying-saudi-uae-qatar-egypt-and-jordan-s-postwar-gaza-plan

 

A new survey from the Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies has found that Arabs are more pro-Palestinian than they have been at any point since 2011, the year the organisation began systematically polling Arab public opinion on Israel-Palestine and other issues. 

In the most recent survey, conducted between 12 December and 5 January, the centre polled 8,000 Arabs in 16 countries that represent more than 95 percent of the population of the Arab region. Respondents were asked a variety of questions about the Palestinian cause, the 7 October attack on Israel by Hamas, Israel’s war on Gaza, and US policy. 

The findings suggest that Israel’s war on Gaza, likely a genocide under international humanitarian law, has increased Arab support for Palestinians, and amplified anti-Israel and anti-US sentiments. 

It is worth considering the implications of these results for Israeli normalisation efforts. In 2020, four Arab countries - the United Arab Emirates, Morocco, Sudan and Bahrain - agreed to normalise relations with Israel. 

These deals were significant, in part because they bypassed Palestinians and seemed to do away with concerns about Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territories. While Zionists praised the normalisation efforts, scholars and pro-Palestinian groups saw them as a betrayal of the Palestinian cause. 

Since 2020 and before 7 October, there had been momentum for more widespread normalisation, with Saudi Arabia well on its way towards making a deal. But Israel’s war on Gaza, and the negative sentiments it has engendered about Israel in the Arab world, could make future normalisation agreements less likely - or at least more difficult to execute. 

Going forward, the question for Arab regimes will revolve around the extent to which they are willing to ignore popular sentiments. Pushing ahead with Israel normalisation against the will of their citizens could prove risky. 

Indeed, Arab publics appear united in anger. The last time anger was this palpable on the Arab streets was during the Arab Spring era, which led to calls for democracy and widespread popular protests. Will Arab governments be willing to roll the dice on normalisation agreements that could lead to unrest? Only time will tell. 

More than anything, perhaps, the recent survey results demonstrate the massive disconnect between some Arab regimes and their citizenries. 

With rare exceptions, most Arab governments have delivered only relatively mild rebukes of Israeli atrocities, and popular calls for action against Israel - including calls for an oil embargo - have not gained traction with Arab governments. Importantly, previously agreed-upon normalisation deals have continued unabated.

 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/war-gaza-arab-regimes-ignore-popular-support-palestine-peril

 

 

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

So far, Arab states have not permitted the resettlement of Palestinians in their territory. What’s struck you most about their response to Israel’s war in Gaza?

What’s noteworthy in this entire conflict since Oct. 7 has been the lack of reaction or response from the Arab world. Saudi Arabia continues to hold the door open for a peace agreement with Israel. The UAE, Morocco and Bahrain didn’t even withdraw ambassadors. Jordan did, but of course with about half of its population being Palestinian, Jordan has a particular problem. That lack of reaction I think is very telling. If you needed another example that Arab states are not viscerally concerned about the Palestinians and their fate, this would be it.

The Biden administration is pushing hard to end the conflict by demanding that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu begin discussing a postwar settlement for the Palestinians, including a future state. In return, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states would help rebuild and continue normalizing relations with Israel. But if the Arab states are merely giving lip service to the Palestinian cause without caring much about it, that suggests that all Netanyahu would have to do is make the right noises about giving the Palestinians some autonomy, but not much more. Correct?

I think you’ve got it exactly right. Netanyahu wouldn’t have to do very much to put this back on track again, but I think it’s unlikely he will do even that. [Netanyahu has refused to consider any negotiations over a Palestinian state.]

How far back does this history of Arab antipathy to the Palestinians go? If the Palestinians were forced out of Gaza, would anyone accept them?

They are truly a people without a land or a refuge anywhere. We’ve all seen the horror of Gaza, and that’s overshadowed the nightmare of the West Bank, which is appalling in its own right. Then you look at the Palestinian diaspora, where they have had an existence of pure hell by and large. I was in Beirut at the time of the Israeli invasion [of Lebanon in 1982] and the massacre at the Shatila Palestinian refugee camp carried out by Lebanese forces. But it was just one of many massacres.

Tall al-Za'Tar, the big Palestinian refugee camp in East Beirut, was besieged by Lebanese forces and reduced to rubble in the early days of the Lebanese civil war in 1975. And just three years after the Shatila massacre, in 1985, something started called the “War of the Camps.” That was Lebanese Shia, backed by Syria and Iran, laying siege to the Shatila and Bourj el-Barajneh camps for almost three years with untold numbers of dead and wounded among the Palestinians. And the irony there of course is when you fast forward to today and the supposed Iranian support for Hamas and the Palestinian cause generally — well, not so much. It is a marriage of convenience. All part of Iran’s larger strategy of exporting force beyond its borders with allies and proxies. We in the West do not remember the War of the Camps, but I assure you that the Iranians and Palestinians do. They understand there is no love in Tehran on the part of Ayatollahs for the Palestinians or their cause.

[Jurgen Knows]

Summary: Israel and Iran have common interests in the region, and benefit from each other’s existence at the expense of the people of the region.

 

Yes. We know this.

 

Zionists, Iran and its NSAAs can all fuck off as far as the people of the region are concerned. 
 

That still doesn’t make Zionists any less accountable for the genocide and ethnic cleansing they are committing in Palestine.

[TheHowieLama]

Most folks who are currently discussing peace plans have a keen awareness of the regions history and the Palestinian issue within both the region and the Arab world as a whole has some serious roadblocks in that regard.

 

Anywhoo, waiting on Hamas at this point for a ceasefire.

Unless that is just performative.

[Jurgen Knows]

No idea. You’ll have to ask the Zionist and Iranian architects about their planned performances for the region.

 

That still doesn’t make Zionists any less accountable for the genocide and ethnic cleansing they are committing in Palestine.

 

[TheHowieLama]

 Nobody mentioned either - we are waiting on Hamas' acceptance (allegedly).

 

The question remains - is that performative on their part? Or tactical?

[Jurgen Knows]

As per the informative articles you shared,

 

Hamas is an Iranian tool.

Iran and Israel have common interests in the region, and benefit from each other’s existence at the expense of the people of the region.

 

Based on the above, the answer to your question was already given. Here it is again:

 

No idea. You’ll have to ask the Zionist and Iranian architects about their planned performances for the region.

 

In all cases, that doesn’t make the Zionists any less accountable for the genocide and ethnic cleansing they are committing in Palestine.

[TheHowieLama]

Interesting take. 

 

The discussions posted above actually revolve around the Palestine issue within the Arab world and the lack of any real motivation from the countries leaders to do much at all, in contrast to the publics outrage. Ironically, very similar to the reaction here in the US.

Your opinion that what happens in the region entirely depends on two countries outside of the Arab world just amplifies the issue.

 

You don't have to answer the direct question. it's ok.

[Jurgen Knows]

I gave you my answer. 
 

I never said “entirely”. You added that bit.

[Jurgen Knows]

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Murderous animals. Just utter scumbags.