Our midfield

[Jose Jones]

1 hour ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

 

If people want to seriously ask where our money is going, there should be more transparency around this wage bill, because it makes no fucking sense. We are widely reputed to be a club that doesn't pay the market rate on wages - we have one mega earner in Salah, with everybody else earning less than Gabriel fucking Jesus at Arsenal. 

 

So who are these "wages" being paid to? Corporate execs? Consultancy fees to FSG? How the fuck can we have the fifth biggest wage bill in the world but at the same time not be able to attract a single fucking player because we won't pay high wages. It makes no sense.

Mate, while asking where all the transfer money is, compared to what other clubs who earn the same or shitloads less are spending is totally legit.

We are obviously able to attract and retain players with the wages we pay though.  We've paid Mo, signed Thiago as an old man on big wages, and Diaz and Nunez were both highly sought after and won't have come cheap.  The wages to players are not the problem.  The transfer funds on the other hand...

[HBenn]

6 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Erm, that is the choice for every team in the league.

Well it clearly isn't. Ten Haag wasn't given such a small budget that he has to pretty much work with what he had got in most areas as there isn't money to do anything else. I think that is the point most are making. We should have backed Klopp but instead he has worked pretty much on a net neutral basis for the last 3 summers. 

[Daisy]

8 hours ago, Red74 said:

Hopefully this changes Klopps mind about bringing a boss midfielder in and letting the others worry about getting their places back when they’re all fit again. This lot aren’t reliable at all. 2 top midfielders were needed after last seasons marathon. We need them more than ever now 

Bullshit. This is totally on FSG

[HBenn]

2 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Mate, while asking where all the transfer money is, compared to what other clubs who earn the same or shitloads less are spending is totally legit.

We are obviously able to attract and retain players with the wages we pay though.  We've paid Mo, signed Thiago as an old man on big wages, and Diaz and Nunez were both highly sought after and won't have come cheap.  The wages to players are not the problem.  The transfer funds on the other hand...

Surely it's a bit of both. Our wage bill probably went down over the summer but we actually have 9 players paid to play in 3 positions. 

For me the squad is a little unbalanced in age, injury profile and skill set in midfield. 

 

As bad as we were last night, defensively I think we ok with Joel and Ibrahim to come back and similarly up top with Jota and Darwin. Midfield worries me though because I could see that midfield playing quite a bit.

 

The biggest concern overall though is just how knackered to a man we have seemed so far. I don't think Fab or Hendo have been fit all season and I think that is one reason they are looking so bad. Arguably they are probably 2 players that are willing to play through it (because the likes of Naby won't play if the wind is in slightly the wrong direction) and that is not helping them.

 

One thing is clear though imo, I think if Naby gets an extension - without any more incomings - its the clearest sign that the plot has been lost. 

[HBenn]

4 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

Yes I agree, I just don't agree with people saying we should have got rid of Milner.  The role planned for him is basically player-coach, coming on for a few minutes here and there, and guiding the young uns in the early cup rounds.  This is totally fine.

The problem is the midfielders who should be ahead of him. 

I agree on Milner.

Arguably where would we be now without him? A youngsters confidence would probably be in tatters. 

He is what he is. 7th choice when everyone is fit. I think in some respects it was good he was out there last night because as much as we desperately need midfielders at least a player like him is going to go after Virgil after the 1st goal or after Trent to tell him his alarm is going off and he needs to get out of bed during the 1st half. He won't let the others have an easy ride when they are crap too.

The issue is he shouldn't really be relied upon like he is being. He is still ok if coming on to close a game out or a 20 min cameo. We would probably have lost at Fulham without him. 

[FrenchEyeGlass]

Milner isn't the problem but is a symptom of the problem. 

 

James Milner is 4 years younger than Arteta and is starting games for us 2022. Pure negligence. 

[HBenn]

9 hours ago, Red74 said:

Hopefully this changes Klopps mind about bringing a boss midfielder in and letting the others worry about getting their places back when they’re all fit again. This lot aren’t reliable at all. 2 top midfielders were needed after last seasons marathon. We need them more than ever now 

Jurgen is a dream for any owner.

He will accept the status quo ( at least publically) and focus on what he can do with what he has got. He won't moan about stuff (unless it is really really extreme) and will never undermine the confidence of his own players in public by saying we really need x.

 

So while privately he may ask for stuff the owners know it will be him who gets the flack publically. He is big enough to take it but I don't think that what we have seen publically over the summer is a reflection of the private views. He and his staff have not achieved what they have without a great degree of intelligence.

 

His comments over the last few weeks point to that. Initially "I don't think we need one" to "of course we have talked lots about it but the contracts or prices are too high" to "I am not in charge of the money". Neil Jones said he really really rated Barella. Inter need money and yet supposedly we are not going after him? Why?

 

In Jan he said he was happy with the squad and then said when we signed Diaz that we recognised we needed someone to help the lads up top. If the guy has two faults (if you can call them that) it's that he perhaps too readily accepts the situation as it is and maybe is too loyal for his own good. Admirable qualities but you cannot help feel FSG abuse them at times.

[Red Shift]

2 minutes ago, FrenchEyeGlass said:

Milner isn't the problem but is a symptom of the problem. 

 

James Milner is 4 years younger than Arteta and is starting games for us 2022. Pure negligence. 

He’s doing what he’s paid to do. Fill in as required - and he does an amazing job.

Injuries have fucked our midfield like injuries have fucked our defence. You can't strategise for that. What we want really, are real answers about why we have a large injury list.

[Lee909]

What I don't get at all is its obvious the midfield has got old and it's injury prone. But why is the name popping up everywhere as the possible solution this year Moises Caicedo a 20 year old with 11 games for Brighton who they'll bend us over a barrell for in the fee

[clockspeed]

So do we go 442 with Nunez and Elliot up front and a midfield of Diaz and Salah full 90 mins plus Fab and Hendo  .  D efence stays the same  after a serious bollocking today . 

 

 

[Lee909]

1 minute ago, clockspeed said:

So do we go 442 with Nunez and Elliot up front and a midfield of Diaz and Salah full 90 mins plus Fab and Hendo  .  D efence stays the same  after a serious bollocking today . 

 

 

 

No

That midfield will get overrun by nearly every team in the league. 

[Lee909]

One of the biggest issues is we have built a midfield that relies so heavily on Thiago to habe any creative spark, he's also the only player capable of controlling the speed of tbe game. But he's pretty much a permanent crock and has been his whole career. This summer Brozović was available as a bosman signing. As where Eriksen and Kessie who while not as good would still have improved the team. 

 

Now without Thiago the only other player who is forward thinking is a kid who's hardly played since breaking his ankle and should be a squad player without the massive pressure on him. Same with Carvalho. Neither of these two are young players like Fowler/Owen who just walked into the first team and where obviously ready. Also Robbie had Rush there to take some pressure off and Owen had Robbie Collymore and Reidle  around him to take pressure off. Elliot has fucking Nabby Keita

[Barrington Womble]

There's loads of good posts here about, we should have seen it coming, breaking down 2 or 3 types of player we should bring in and all the rest of it. But of course the club has seen it coming. Honestly, it was clear as day a year ago to us idiots on the forum. Do we really think the club missed it? They recognised it and quickly dismissed it because we don't want to spend and we've nobody of value to sell. 

 

Looking at what klopp has said over the summer and in recent days, you would suspect he sat down with the board, told them his thoughts and they agreed if someone was sold or we got injuries, then we'd make a move. The injuries have arrived and keita wants out, the additional players haven't, which is why we're hearing what we are from klopp. 

 

But the bottom line is the owners just care about 4th. While we want our team to win the league, that's just a bonus to them. Like the issues we had in 20/21, they'll have a spreadsheet that will be telling them the probability of getting 4th with or without a new midfielder. I would imagine (before last night anyway), that sat at around 99% with or without a new midfielder. They're going to take the cheap path, because they've done nothing else since they arrived. I don't know why anyone is surprised and there will come a time when even klopp can't succeed in their setup. 

 

We've all been around football most of our lives and for many of us on here, this stretches back decades. We see the value of klopp clear as day. I would think our chaps in the boardroom think their setup is responsible every bit and if not more than klopp's contribution. 

 

[etho]

So next summer we have Keita, Ox, Bobby all off the payroll - anyone else? As we will need at least one midfielder in, and a new attacker to replace Bobby

[Lee909]

3 minutes ago, etho said:

So next summer we have Keita, Ox, Bobby all off the payroll - anyone else? As we will need at least one midfielder in, and a new attacker to replace Bobby

 

Milner

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, etho said:

So next summer we have Keita, Ox, Bobby all off the payroll - anyone else? As we will need at least one midfielder in, and a new attacker to replace Bobby

Milner hopefully. 

[Welsh]

Milner wasn't and has never been the problem. A great servant and someone who will give his all in every game he's in. 

 

Milner was the only leader on that pitch last night ffs.

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, Welsh said:

Milner wasn't and has never been the problem. A great servant and someone who will give his all in every game he's in. 

 

Milner was the only leader on that pitch last night ffs.

He was absolutely awful last night. He worked hard, which he always does. But he looks like an old man, his mobility is shocking. 

[Welsh]

Everyone was awful. However, I actually thought he was one of the better players from the dreadful performances last night.

 

Firmino/Trent/Van Dijk/Hendo/Robertson were so much worse.

[Trojan1892]

Firmino and Henderson were abysmal.

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, Welsh said:

Everyone was awful. However, I actually thought he was one of the better players from the dreadful performances last night.

 

Firmino/Trent/Van Dijk/Hendo/Robertson were so much worse.

They were all poor. But they have somewhere to improve. That last night is what peak milner looks like now. That's where the problem is with him. He just isn't at this level any more no matter how many bleep tests he wins. 

[TheDrowningMan]

37 minutes ago, etho said:

So next summer we have Keita, Ox, Bobby all off the payroll - anyone else? As we will need at least one midfielder in, and a new attacker to replace Bobby

If we only sign one midfielder + one forward next season, we’ll be beyond fucked. Need at least two or three in each position, and at least two of the midfielders need to be elite quality. Bellingham by himself or Bellingham and a punt on someone who may or may not be good enough would be just laughable.

[Trojan1892]

Neither is Henderson.

[Lee909]

53 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

He was absolutely awful last night. He worked hard, which he always does. But he looks like an old man, his mobility is shocking. 

He's slowed down alot the past 18 months. Said ages ago he looks a yard off the pace in games. Great to come on with 15 minutes left and see out a game,or to lead a inexperienced side on domestic cups. But in high intensity games he has looked done for a while imo

[Bjornebye]

Anyone think Elliot is getting in the way of the Trent/Salah link up play?

 

He's done ok the last few games but he's in that pocket to the right and we don't seem anywhere near as dangerous down there. Carvalho plays far more central and it gives us more options to spread the play. I hope Carvalho starts on Saturday.