Alternative 'rona thread

[Pureblood]

5 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

Any here we are questioning the worlds response to it and smart arse solutions start with the word maybe.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

Are you okay?  I think you need to do a lateral flow test.

 

Take the word "maybe" out if it helps you read and understand the sentence.

I’m not OK. I’m allergic to bullshit. Is there a test or vaccine for that?

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

I’m not OK. I’m allergic to bullshit. Is there a test or vaccine for that?

Maybe.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

Maybe.

That’s actually very good. Damn you for posting something funny.

[Pureblood]

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

That’s actually very good. Damn you for posting something funny.

Thanks, I would reciprocate the rep but I'm saving them all for negs.

[Pureblood]

[SasaS]

16 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

I don't know why do you insist on "goalposts moving" and "social contract", it is obvious that goalposts are moving with a new virus, new vaccines, new variants. Even when they were introduced, the percentages were not 100, Pfizer was about 95 and AZ 76 or even 73 after revision in the US. And that was for the first variant.  What later transpired is that in the real world, they didn't work on transmission quite as effectively, but they did work to reduce it considerably and the vaccines worked pretty well on reducing hospitalization and deaths. There is more than enough evidence of that. With Omicron, goalposts will have to be moved again.

 

There is no such thing as a social contract with the government, get 2 jabs and its freedom, you are not a child that has been promised ice cream by his parents if he cleans his room. It is an ongoing situation largely in unchartered territories. So far, vaccination has been the most effective tool in the West or the Northern hemisphere. It is relatively safe. The alternative would have been the perennial lockdown or/and many more deaths and hospital days.

[Pureblood]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I don't know why do you insist on "goalposts moving" and "social contract", it is obvious that goalposts are moving with a new virus, new vaccines, new variants. Even when they were introduced, the percentages were not 100, Pfizer was about 95 and AZ 76 or even 73 after revision in the US. And that was for the first variant.  What later transpired is that in the real world, they didn't work on transmission quite as effectively, but they did work to reduce it considerably and the vaccines worked pretty well on reducing hospitalization and deaths. There is more than enough evidence of that. With Omicron, goalposts will have to be moved again.

 

There is no such thing as a social contract with the government, get 2 jabs and its freedom, you are not a child that has been promised ice cream by his parents if he cleans his room. It is an ongoing situation largely in unchartered territories. So far, vaccination has been the most effective tool in the West or the Northern hemisphere. It is relatively safe. The alternative would have been the perennial lockdown or/and many more deaths and hospital days.

The vaccines clearly don't work with transmission.  Record breaking daily case numbers around the world are testament to that. 

 

With regard to the social contract, I beg to differ.  Our government and mainstream media literally called it "freedom day" and there was an abundance of propaganda promising irreversible freedom (Johnson used the word "irreversibly") such as the following headline from the Evening Standard.  You can pretend that headlines like this didn't exist but a three second google search will confirm that they did.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/freedom-double-covid-vaccine-lockdown-july-19-unlikely-b941708.html

Freedom beckons for double jabbed

[SasaS]

2 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

The vaccines clearly don't work with transmission.  Record breaking daily case numbers around the world are testament to that. 

 

With regard to the social contract, I beg to differ.  Our government and mainstream media literally called it "freedom day" and there was an abundance of propaganda promising irreversible freedom (Johnson used the word "irreversibly") such as the following headline from the Evening Standard.  You can pretend that headlines like this didn't exist but a three second google search will confirm that they did.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/freedom-double-covid-vaccine-lockdown-july-19-unlikely-b941708.html

Freedom beckons for double jabbed

They cannot promise you a freedom day, because the situation is not in their hands completely, everything is contingent on what happens next. Most countries have changed approach throughout the pandemic.

Vaccines don't work too good on Omicron transmissions, they worked much better with previous variants.

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

They cannot promise you a freedom day...

I agree, and yet they went and did it anyway.  Any tactic is used to get jabs into arms. 

[SasaS]

Just now, Pureblood said:

I agree, and yet they went and did it anyway.  Any tactic is used to get jabs into arms. 

Because it was the best thing to do at the time. And it still probably is.

[Pureblood]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Because it was the best thing to do at the time. And it still probably is.

It depends.  If the current generation of vaccines do more harm than good, as some people argue, then another approach is required.

[SasaS]

13 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

It depends.  If the current generation of vaccines do more harm than good, as some people argue, then another approach is required.

If the do, yes. But overall consensus seems to be they don't. By a very wide margin.

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

If the do, yes. But overall consensus seems to be they don't. By a very wide margin.

This is worth a watch.  Requires a bit of effort and an open mind, though, which are rare commodities these days.  It goes into the detail of the flawed/underpowered Pfizer trials.

 

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/explosive-video-from-group-of-500-doctors-and-scientists-exposes-pfizer-injections_XU51bETqwoR8XKE.html

[SasaS]

4 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

This is worth a watch.  Requires a bit of effort and an open mind, though, which are rare commodities these days.  It goes into the detail of the flawed/underpowered Pfizer trials.

 

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/explosive-video-from-group-of-500-doctors-and-scientists-exposes-pfizer-injections_XU51bETqwoR8XKE.html

Yes. I've seen and read enough of these. In general, I'd say  people are often confusing open mind with the obsessive need to find something that validates their opinion. When you offer them a counter argument, sometimes consisting of really the most basic logical thinking, you find that the open mind is completely shot for traffic from the opposite direction.

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

Yes. I've seen and read enough of these. In general, I'd say  people are often confusing open mind with the obsessive need to find something that validates their opinion. When you offer them a counter argument, sometimes consisting of really the most basic logical thinking, you find that the open mind is completely shot for traffic from the opposite direction.

What do you think about the content of the video, though?  If they're correct, doesn't it concern you?  

[SasaS]

5 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

What do you think about the content of the video, though?  If they're correct, doesn't it concern you?  

It would, if there wasn't for the constant pattern  these claims follow, there is a claim, it gets refuted or debunked, then there is another claim and so on.

There are agencies with a mandate to check these things, there is a real world, there are thousands upon thousands of other experts who cannot all be corrupt or completely ideologically driven and you look for some kind of consensus. At the moment, that consensus is, they don't do more harm than good. If what you are seeing around you, state of play, anecdotal evidence in your own life largely supports that consensus, then that is it.

[Pureblood]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

It would, if there wasn't for the constant pattern  these claims follow, there is a claim, it gets refuted or debunked, then there is another claim and so on.

There are agencies with a mandate to check these things, there is a real world, there are thousands upon thousands of other experts who cannot all be corrupt or completely ideologically driven and you look for some kind of consensus. At the moment, that consensus is, they don't do more harm than good. If what you are seeing around you, state of play, anecdotal evidence in your own life largely supports that consensus, then that is it.

I don't think the claims made in that video have been debunked.  I don't see how they can be debunked, because they're examining the trial data from Pfizer's own records.  Even if it is debunked, or fact checked or whatever, you still have the VAERS and Yellow Card systems indicating a lot of vaccine injuries, which warrant further investigation.  

 

The agencies you speak of are heavily influenced (some use the phrase "regulatory capture") by big Pharma companies, so they've lost their purpose and sense of independence.  The culture of politics, the sleaze and corruption, has made its way into health agencies such as the CDC and Public Health England.  We must therefore look for alternative sources of information, such as the various alliances of doctors formed in the wake of the pandemic, to get closer to the truth.  In my opinion, of course.

[SasaS]

5 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

I don't think the claims made in that video have been debunked.  I don't see how they can be debunked, because they're examining the trial data from Pfizer's own records.  Even if it is debunked, or fact checked or whatever, you still have the VAERS and Yellow Card systems indicating a lot of vaccine injuries, which warrant further investigation.  

 

The agencies you speak of are heavily influenced (some use the phrase "regulatory capture") by big Pharma companies, so they've lost their purpose and sense of independence.  The culture of politics, the sleaze and corruption, has made its way into health agencies such as the CDC and Public Health England.  We must therefore look for alternative sources of information, such as the various alliances of doctors formed in the wake of the pandemic, to get closer to the truth.  In my opinion, of course.

I know, this is why you will never believe "the establishment" whatever they tell you and however strong their argument may be and always look for alternative truth from alternative sources, you will then overemphasize the agenda of the establishment and disregard the agenda or persistently obvious tactics of the alternative. It's not an open mind, it's a cognitive pattern, for the lack of a better term. You don't trust them.

[Pureblood]

8 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I know, this is why you will never believe "the establishment" whatever they tell you and however strong their argument may be and always look for alternative truth from alternative sources, you will then overemphasize the agenda of the establishment and disregard the agenda or persistently obvious tactics of the alternative. It's not an open mind, it's a cognitive pattern, for the lack of a better term. You don't trust them.

You're right that I don't trust them.  At the outset of this pandemic, I made a conscious decision to obtain my news and views from sources other than the mainstream.  I still keep an eye on what is reported in the mainstream, because I like to appraise myself of all of the views on the table, but trust is definitely an issue.  

 

Occasionally you get the odd nugget of truth, like when Fauci admitted that the viral loads in vaccinated were just as high as in the unvaccinated.  

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

[Pureblood]

[Pureblood]

https://www.thenationalnews.com/gulf-news/oman/2021/12/28/condolences-pour-in-for-omani-footballer-mukhaled-al-raqadi-who-died-on-the-pitch/

 

Sports fans from all over Oman are mourning after the death of footballer Mukhaled Al Raqadi, 29, who collapsed during a pre-match warm-up.

 

The Oman international, who played 12 times for his country, suffered a heart attack on the pitch on Thursday, the Oman News Agency reported.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10360931/Watfords-clash-against-Tottenham-halted-medical-emergency-crowd.html

 

Watford's clash against Tottenham is halted after ANOTHER medical emergency in the crowd with physios rushing to give treatment to the stricken supporter... the second incident in a month at Vicarage Road

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/crotian-footballer-dead-pitch-collapsed-25777108

 

Croatian footballer Marin Cacic has tragically died three days after being placed into a coma following his sudden collapse at training with his side NK Nehaj Sinj.

After he collapsed during the session, he was immediately rushed to a hospital where the 23-year-old was diagnosed with heart failure.

He was then put in a comatose state as doctors fought tirelessly to save the young man's life, though their efforts sadly failed and Cacic was pronounced dead on December, 23.

[Rushies tash]

4 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

https://www.thenationalnews.com/gulf-news/oman/2021/12/28/condolences-pour-in-for-omani-footballer-mukhaled-al-raqadi-who-died-on-the-pitch/

 

Sports fans from all over Oman are mourning after the death of footballer Mukhaled Al Raqadi, 29, who collapsed during a pre-match warm-up.

 

The Oman international, who played 12 times for his country, suffered a heart attack on the pitch on Thursday, the Oman News Agency reported.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10360931/Watfords-clash-against-Tottenham-halted-medical-emergency-crowd.html

 

Watford's clash against Tottenham is halted after ANOTHER medical emergency in the crowd with physios rushing to give treatment to the stricken supporter... the second incident in a month at Vicarage Road

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/crotian-footballer-dead-pitch-collapsed-25777108

 

Croatian footballer Marin Cacic has tragically died three days after being placed into a coma following his sudden collapse at training with his side NK Nehaj Sinj.

After he collapsed during the session, he was immediately rushed to a hospital where the 23-year-old was diagnosed with heart failure.

He was then put in a comatose state as doctors fought tirelessly to save the young man's life, though their efforts sadly failed and Cacic was pronounced dead on December, 23.

Sudden death on the pitch (as tragic as it undoubtedly is) is not a recent, or uncommon phenomenon.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing