Crime and Punishment

[Strontium]

On 04/12/2021 at 22:26, Section_31 said:

I think we always need someone to blame but the uncomfortable truth is some people are just fucked up.

 

Agree, I think these things are always going to happen no matter what you do. But people are so eager to leap into the Something Must Be Done trap. In my opinion social services are already too keen to intervene a lot of the time. Probably the worst thing I ever heard was of a couple who were wrongly accused of abusing their kid; by the time they were cleared, the child had already been adopted out to someone else, and that's it, permanent, they can never see their baby ever again.

[Arniepie]

10 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Agree, I think these things are always going to happen no matter what you do. But people are so eager to leap into the Something Must Be Done trap. In my opinion social services are already too keen to intervene a lot of the time. Probably the worst thing I ever heard was of a couple who were wrongly accused of abusing their kid; by the time they were cleared, the child had already been adopted out to someone else, and that's it, permanent, they can never see their baby ever again.

Yet in most publicised cases ,the opposite is the case.

I remember reading a piece where they said the last option was removing the child,so I dont think it's a decision taken lightly.

I'm no expert but I'd guess it is an extremely difficult job and that cunt trying to make political capital out of them, after 10 years of cuts,is disingenuous, in the extreme.

[Arniepie]

Plus the notion of boris Johnson slating someone for their incompetent is beyond parody.

[Captain Willard]

I worked at a london council in the 1980s. First job. Social services in our office used to contrive situations so the parents and their kids would come in (like we wanted to talk about a new play scheme etc) then seperate them into different rooms and take the kids away. The mothers would become hysterical, screaming etc. It was always done after a lot of consideration but fuck me it was harrowing to hear. 

[Oh Buoy]

20 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Agree, I think these things are always going to happen no matter what you do. But people are so eager to leap into the Something Must Be Done trap. In my opinion social services are already too keen to intervene a lot of the time. Probably the worst thing I ever heard was of a couple who were wrongly accused of abusing their kid; by the time they were cleared, the child had already been adopted out to someone else, and that's it, permanent, they can never see their baby ever again.

 

Just two small parts to pull you up on with this: 

1. Social services are required to take things seriously however, they do review referrals as soon as they come in and if there's a concern (e.g. abuse) they are required by law to investigate these concerns. I don't think you can brand this up as being 'too keen' as they have to act on what they're provided with as do the police, fire service etc. Better safe than sorry and all that. 

2. The removal of the child was probably due to the introduction of Public Law Outline (PLO) which I agree with you here has gone too far the other way. However, it's not social services who action the adoption, it's a judge. It's therefore based on evidence (medical etc) so if that story is true (which it can often be the case), there's a catalogue of errors leading to the adoption. 

 

As you were. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

On 05/12/2021 at 22:54, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Agree, I think these things are always going to happen no matter what you do. But people are so eager to leap into the Something Must Be Done trap. In my opinion social services are already too keen to intervene a lot of the time. Probably the worst thing I ever heard was of a couple who were wrongly accused of abusing their kid; by the time they were cleared, the child had already been adopted out to someone else, and that's it, permanent, they can never see their baby ever again.

Anecdotal, doesn’t count don’t you know. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

NatWest money laundering case.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/13/natwest-fined-264m-after-admitting-breaching-anti-money-laundering-rules

 

The details are hilarious. People walking into branches to deposit binbags full of musty-smelling cash - and NatWest just shrugging "seems legit".

[dockers_strike]

Dear Lord, another young kiddie murdered by scum. Slow vivisection is too good for these monsters.

 

RIP little Star.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10293155/Mother-20-female-lover-28-guilty-death-16-month-old-daughter.html

[Captain Willard]

17 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

NatWest money laundering case.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/13/natwest-fined-264m-after-admitting-breaching-anti-money-laundering-rules

 

The details are hilarious. People walking into branches to deposit binbags full of musty-smelling cash - and NatWest just shrugging "seems legit".

This is an unbelievable case. A jewellers in Bradford depositing nearly £400m over 5 years and nobody at the bank thought anything was amiss. 

[Captain Willard]

6 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Dear Lord, another young kiddie murdered by scum. Slow vivisection is too good for these monsters.

 

RIP little Star.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10293155/Mother-20-female-lover-28-guilty-death-16-month-old-daughter.html

I think the Government needs to review sentencing guidelines re child murders. Theoretically they could get 15 - 20 years whereas a knife murder in a pub fight gets 25 minimum. Child murders by the carers need to become a whole life sentence. 

[Strontium]

Does government need to do that? Looks more to me that you think they should.

 

Politicians interfere enough in the justice system already. The only thing they need to be doing is providing enough funds to clear the backlog of cases that their incompetence has created.

[Arniepie]

20 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Dear Lord, another young kiddie murdered by scum. Slow vivisection is too good for these monsters.

 

RIP little Star.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10293155/Mother-20-female-lover-28-guilty-death-16-month-old-daughter.html

Saw that. 

Absolutely horrendous. 

Is this type of thing getting more commonplace?

[Strontium]

11 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Is this type of thing getting more commonplace?

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/number-child-murders-falls-lowest-figure-since-records-began/

 

Quote

Number of child murders falls to lowest figure since records began
By Martin Evans, Crime Correspondent and Lydia Willgress 9 February 2017 • 7:33pm

The number of child murders fell to the lowest level on record last year despite an 11 per cent rise in adult homicides across Britain.

A total of 38 people under the age of 16 were killed by someone else in 2016, down from 56 the previous year.

The figure was almost half the total recorded three years ago and marks the lowest number of child homicides since records were first collated in 1972.

[Arniepie]

7 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/number-child-murders-falls-lowest-figure-since-records-began/

 

Not really just child murders though is it?

Its about parents or carers mistreating their own children. 

There was an episode of 24 hours in police custody where they were saying they are swamped with cases.

 

In s side issue whilst social services are once again under the spotlight ,the bbc have reported that between 2010 and 2020 spending on early intervention had halved.

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Does government need to do that? Looks more to me that you think they should.

 

Politicians interfere enough in the justice system already. The only thing they need to be doing is providing enough funds to clear the backlog of cases that their incompetence has created.

I think sentencing policy for murder needs to be reconsidered irrespective of the funding arguement.  We are unusual in the UK in that how you kill somebody (hammer versus knife versus gun) determines your sentence. This is absurd and leads to situations where parents killing their kids get much lower sentences than gangsters shooting other gangsters. I don’t see how you defend this. 

[Strontium]

4 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

I think sentencing policy for murder needs to be reconsidered irrespective of the funding arguement.  We are unusual in the UK in that how you kill somebody (hammer versus knife versus gun) determines your sentence. This is absurd and leads to situations where parents killing their kids get much lower sentences than gangsters shooting other gangsters. I don’t see how you defend this. 

 

I'm quite sure I wasn't defending that situation. I think it's absurd to provide constraints on the justice system simply by dint of, for instance, what murder weapon was used. The answer, I don't think, is to impose even more constraints.

[Captain Willard]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I'm quite sure I wasn't defending that situation. I think it's absurd to provide constraints on the justice system simply by dint of, for instance, what murder weapon was used. The answer, I don't think, is to impose even more constraints.

Well you did say the “the only thing” that needed fixing was funding but I think we agree sentancing policy for murder needs review and that may be more not less judicial discretion. I think less you think more discretion. That said, another kid has died in awful circumstances so it’s probably not a good idea to either debate on here or construct policy on the back of an emotive case. 

[sir roger]

2 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

I think sentencing policy for murder needs to be reconsidered irrespective of the funding arguement.  We are unusual in the UK in that how you kill somebody (hammer versus knife versus gun) determines your sentence. This is absurd and leads to situations where parents killing their kids get much lower sentences than gangsters shooting other gangsters. I don’t see how you defend this. 

If I wanted to kill someone , I would work on a way to involve a car , as this seems to be a pathway to light sentences. I can't actually drive unfortunately  , so my advice to myself isn't much use to be fair.

[Elite]

Stick the cunts in an oubliette.

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Elite said:

Stick the cunts in an oubliette.

They would, but can’t remember where it is. 
 

(I’m here all week) 

[Bjornebye]

10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

They would, but can’t remember where it is. 
 

(I’m here all week) 

Hahaha

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

They would, but can’t remember where it is. 
 

(I’m here all week) 

 

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, Elite said:

Stick the cunts in an oubliette.

 

Two eggs or three?

[johnsusername]

Christ...

 

"It was Brockhill’s phone that ultimately secured her conviction: every time she assaulted Star she would Google for tips to cover her tracks, querying “can you die from getting winded?”, “‘sickening after head trauma?”, “how to get bruising down” and “signs of an abused baby”.

 

"When, on 22 September 2020, she punched Star so hard she caused the injuries that ultimately caused the girl’s death, Brockhill again went online, Googling “shock in babies” and “how to bring a baby out of shock”.

 

Never mind a jail sentence, she should be thrown out of a plane without a parachute. 

[Leyton388]

Another wonderful case of social services being on the ball.

 

Fucking useless.