Crime and Punishment

[Captain Willard]

10 hours ago, Arniepie said:

Said it the other week

Stuff like this I'm guessing has always gone on,but it does seem to getting more prevalent. 

Evil cunts.

I think lockdown has been partly to blame. A few cases now where parents who are known to social services as a risk  have killed their kids in the last 2 years. They’ve been left alone for longer periods and this has been the consequence. 

[Rico1304]

 

[Bjornebye]

30 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

I think lockdown has been partly to blame. A few cases now where parents who are known to social services as a risk  have killed their kids in the last 2 years. They’ve been left alone for longer periods and this has been the consequence. 

I’ve just had a look and reports of child abuse have been on a steady increase for the last 10 years. 
 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/303514/child-cruelty-abuse-in-england-and-wales-uk-y-on-y/

 

 

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Captain Willard said:

I think lockdown has been partly to blame. A few cases now where parents who are known to social services as a risk  have killed their kids in the last 2 years. They’ve been left alone for longer periods and this has been the consequence. 

A damming inditememt of the society we live in.

Didnt domestic abuse cases also rocket during the 1st lockdown?

[Clem H Fandango]

7 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

A damming inditememt of the society we live in.

Didnt domestic abuse cases also rocket during the 1st lockdown?

Yes they did, but overall crime was down. 

[Captain Willard]

38 minutes ago, Clem H Fandango said:

Yes they did, but overall crime was down. 

I think that’s to be expected, lots of low level crime takes place outside the home (muggings, burglaries etc). Domestic violence probably went up. 

[A Red]

Suicides certainly increased. I went for a walk over the Humber Bridge last Saturday and a mental health charity was set up in the car park, they were telling me there had been 6 jumpers during lockdown. 

[Arniepie]

9 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

I think that’s to be expected, lots of low level crime takes place outside the home (muggings, burglaries etc). Domestic violence probably went up. 

Quite hard to commit crime when you cant go out the house. 

[Captain Willard]

3 hours ago, A Red said:

Suicides certainly increased. I went for a walk over the Humber Bridge last Saturday and a mental health charity was set up in the car park, they were telling me there had been 6 jumpers during lockdown. 

They have started putting jumper stopper staff on the stations on south west trains. They’re called passenger welfare staff but they just walk and up and down the platform all day looking out for jumpers.
 

My ex wife saw a jumper at Wimbledon once, said he ran past her and dived full length in front of the train and it made a squelchy noise when the train hit him.

 

 I think there’s a poster on here who’s a train driver, tough for those guys when this happens. 

[Rico1304]

3 hours ago, A Red said:

Suicides certainly increased. I went for a walk over the Humber Bridge last Saturday and a mental health charity was set up in the car park, they were telling me there had been 6 jumpers during lockdown. 

That’s a bit of a myth

 

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/sep/12/more-depression-and-anxiety-but-fewer-suicides-during-lockdown

[A Red]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

That’s a bit of a myth

 

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/sep/12/more-depression-and-anxiety-but-fewer-suicides-during-lockdown

The lying bastards ah well at least I got a coffee and a biscuit for £1

[dockers_strike]

On 27/01/2022 at 18:22, Nelly-Fauci said:

I don’t think there’s much wrong with what the police have done up until now regarding the car/stabbing case. 
 

The driver has potentially murdered somebody. He’s put forward a justification for his actions. I’d be more concerned if the police just accepted this at face value. He’s been released on bail while the police probably carry out more investigations to assess the veracity of his claim and to establish if he has/doesn’t have any links to the two deceased people. If his story stacks up, you’d imagine that he wouldn’t face any charges. But, the police still have a duty to investigate all of the circumstances of what happened. 

Police had an arrest warrant for the guy for 3 weeks prior to the woman's murder. It's not like he'd be hard to find.

 

I dont think most sane people would expect the Police to not investigate this incident but to arrest the guy on suspicion of murder off the bat?

 

The Police can ask you questions without arresting you and can even ask you to attend the local nick for interview with or without a brief, under caution or not.

 

'Murder' also suggests pre meditation which this clearly wasnt. If they were going to arrest, why not manslaughter?

 

A mother of two who was killed on a busy street by her ex-husband died from stab wounds after a 'have-a-go hero' allegedly used his car to try and break up the attack.

Yasmin “Wafah” Chkaifi, 43, was murdered just minutes away from her home outside the entrance to a park in Maida Vale, west London.

A 26-year-old motorist is alleged to have run over and killed the knifeman, Leon McCaskie, during the assault, before being arrested on suspicion of murder. He has since been released on bail.

An inquest at Westminster Coroner’s Court heard an arrest warrant for Mr McCaskie had been issued three weeks prior to the incident.

Speaking after the incident, family members of Ms Chkaifi praised the driver for his "heroic" actions.

The inquest heard Ms Chkaifi suffered a “truly shocking and distressing death”.

 

Family members including her two sons listened in to the short remote hearing on Tuesday.

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Investigating officer DCI Neil Rawlinson told the hearing: "Leon McCaskie and Yasmin Chkaifi had been in a relationship that ended several years ago. There were allegations of domestic abuse, and a stalking prevention order had been put in place against Leon.

"Leon had been arrested and charged for breaching this order, but failed to appear for his first hearing at court. A warrant was issued for his arrest on January 4 2022.

"The two parties lived very close to one another in the Maida Vale area. On Monday, January 24 2022 at about 9am, Leon accosted Yasmin in the street, and repeatedly stabbed her with a knife.

"A member of public in a passing car, saw this and used his vehicle to drive into Leon in an attempt to stop the assault. Both Leon and Yasmin were declared deceased at the scene.

"An investigation has been taking place with me as the senior investigating officer. We have secured CCTV footage of the incident and obtained statements from several eyewitnesses who told us what they saw.

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"We do continue to make efforts to get statements from other potential witnesses whose details we have. Police action between January 4 and 24 is currently subject to an independent investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct."

Metropolitan Police officers at the scene on Chippenham Road, Maida Vale Credit: Aaron Chown /PA

Ms Chkaifi's cause of death was given as multiple stab wounds.

Witnesses at the scene described how events unfolded in the quiet residential road shortly after 9am when a man approached a woman, knocked her to the ground and began stabbing her.

They claimed the attacker had a “large kitchen knife” which he plunged into Ms Chkaifi’s chest “up to 10 times” as shocked onlookers tried to intervene.

Coroner Professor Fiona Wilcox said: "I would like to pass my sympathy to Yasmin's family for their loss. This is a truly shocking and distressing death and I cannot imagine what you must be going through as a family at this time."

The inquest into Mr McCaskie's death was opened and adjourned in a separate remote hearing.

The court heard that his cause of death was multiple injuries.

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Ms Wilcox also expressed her sympathy to his mother, who was listening to proceedings on the phone.

Police had previously given his surname as McCaskre and age as 41, but he also used the surname McCaskie and his age was given in court as 38.

The inquests will be reviewed on July 25.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/01/maida-vale-stabbing-police-issued-arrest-warrant-attacker-three/

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, dockers_strike said:

Police had an arrest warrant for the guy for 3 weeks prior to the woman's murder. It's not like he'd be hard to find.

 

I dont think most sane people would expect the Police to not investigate this incident but to arrest the guy on suspicion of murder off the bat?

 

The Police can ask you questions without arresting you and can even ask you to attend the local nick for interview with or without a brief, under caution or not.

 

'Murder' also suggests pre meditation which this clearly wasnt. If they were going to arrest, why not manslaughter?

 

A mother of two who was killed on a busy street by her ex-husband died from stab wounds after a 'have-a-go hero' allegedly used his car to try and break up the attack.

Yasmin “Wafah” Chkaifi, 43, was murdered just minutes away from her home outside the entrance to a park in Maida Vale, west London.

A 26-year-old motorist is alleged to have run over and killed the knifeman, Leon McCaskie, during the assault, before being arrested on suspicion of murder. He has since been released on bail.

An inquest at Westminster Coroner’s Court heard an arrest warrant for Mr McCaskie had been issued three weeks prior to the incident.

Speaking after the incident, family members of Ms Chkaifi praised the driver for his "heroic" actions.

The inquest heard Ms Chkaifi suffered a “truly shocking and distressing death”.

 

Family members including her two sons listened in to the short remote hearing on Tuesday.

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Investigating officer DCI Neil Rawlinson told the hearing: "Leon McCaskie and Yasmin Chkaifi had been in a relationship that ended several years ago. There were allegations of domestic abuse, and a stalking prevention order had been put in place against Leon.

"Leon had been arrested and charged for breaching this order, but failed to appear for his first hearing at court. A warrant was issued for his arrest on January 4 2022.

"The two parties lived very close to one another in the Maida Vale area. On Monday, January 24 2022 at about 9am, Leon accosted Yasmin in the street, and repeatedly stabbed her with a knife.

"A member of public in a passing car, saw this and used his vehicle to drive into Leon in an attempt to stop the assault. Both Leon and Yasmin were declared deceased at the scene.

"An investigation has been taking place with me as the senior investigating officer. We have secured CCTV footage of the incident and obtained statements from several eyewitnesses who told us what they saw.

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"We do continue to make efforts to get statements from other potential witnesses whose details we have. Police action between January 4 and 24 is currently subject to an independent investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct."

Metropolitan Police officers at the scene on Chippenham Road, Maida Vale Credit: Aaron Chown /PA

Ms Chkaifi's cause of death was given as multiple stab wounds.

Witnesses at the scene described how events unfolded in the quiet residential road shortly after 9am when a man approached a woman, knocked her to the ground and began stabbing her.

They claimed the attacker had a “large kitchen knife” which he plunged into Ms Chkaifi’s chest “up to 10 times” as shocked onlookers tried to intervene.

Coroner Professor Fiona Wilcox said: "I would like to pass my sympathy to Yasmin's family for their loss. This is a truly shocking and distressing death and I cannot imagine what you must be going through as a family at this time."

The inquest into Mr McCaskie's death was opened and adjourned in a separate remote hearing.

The court heard that his cause of death was multiple injuries.

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Ms Wilcox also expressed her sympathy to his mother, who was listening to proceedings on the phone.

Police had previously given his surname as McCaskre and age as 41, but he also used the surname McCaskie and his age was given in court as 38.

The inquests will be reviewed on July 25.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/01/maida-vale-stabbing-police-issued-arrest-warrant-attacker-three/

These ex husband stalkers are completely unhinged nutters. When I worked at a London borough, we had a refugee for battered wives. We had to keep the address a top secret because the ex husbands would turn up, sit outside in their cars 24 hours a day just waiting for their ex missus to come out so they could attack her again. Complete obsessed nutters. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

3 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Police had an arrest warrant for the guy for 3 weeks prior to the woman's murder. It's not like he'd be hard to find.

 

I dont think most sane people would expect the Police to not investigate this incident but to arrest the guy on suspicion of murder off the bat?

 

The Police can ask you questions without arresting you and can even ask you to attend the local nick for interview with or without a brief, under caution or not.

 

'Murder' also suggests pre meditation which this clearly wasnt. If they were going to arrest, why not manslaughter?

 

A mother of two who was killed on a busy street by her ex-husband died from stab wounds after a 'have-a-go hero' allegedly used his car to try and break up the attack.

Yasmin “Wafah” Chkaifi, 43, was murdered just minutes away from her home outside the entrance to a park in Maida Vale, west London.

A 26-year-old motorist is alleged to have run over and killed the knifeman, Leon McCaskie, during the assault, before being arrested on suspicion of murder. He has since been released on bail.

An inquest at Westminster Coroner’s Court heard an arrest warrant for Mr McCaskie had been issued three weeks prior to the incident.

Speaking after the incident, family members of Ms Chkaifi praised the driver for his "heroic" actions.

The inquest heard Ms Chkaifi suffered a “truly shocking and distressing death”.

 

Family members including her two sons listened in to the short remote hearing on Tuesday.

Advertisement

Investigating officer DCI Neil Rawlinson told the hearing: "Leon McCaskie and Yasmin Chkaifi had been in a relationship that ended several years ago. There were allegations of domestic abuse, and a stalking prevention order had been put in place against Leon.

"Leon had been arrested and charged for breaching this order, but failed to appear for his first hearing at court. A warrant was issued for his arrest on January 4 2022.

"The two parties lived very close to one another in the Maida Vale area. On Monday, January 24 2022 at about 9am, Leon accosted Yasmin in the street, and repeatedly stabbed her with a knife.

"A member of public in a passing car, saw this and used his vehicle to drive into Leon in an attempt to stop the assault. Both Leon and Yasmin were declared deceased at the scene.

"An investigation has been taking place with me as the senior investigating officer. We have secured CCTV footage of the incident and obtained statements from several eyewitnesses who told us what they saw.

Advertisement

"We do continue to make efforts to get statements from other potential witnesses whose details we have. Police action between January 4 and 24 is currently subject to an independent investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct."

Metropolitan Police officers at the scene on Chippenham Road, Maida Vale Credit: Aaron Chown /PA

Ms Chkaifi's cause of death was given as multiple stab wounds.

Witnesses at the scene described how events unfolded in the quiet residential road shortly after 9am when a man approached a woman, knocked her to the ground and began stabbing her.

They claimed the attacker had a “large kitchen knife” which he plunged into Ms Chkaifi’s chest “up to 10 times” as shocked onlookers tried to intervene.

Coroner Professor Fiona Wilcox said: "I would like to pass my sympathy to Yasmin's family for their loss. This is a truly shocking and distressing death and I cannot imagine what you must be going through as a family at this time."

The inquest into Mr McCaskie's death was opened and adjourned in a separate remote hearing.

The court heard that his cause of death was multiple injuries.

Advertisement

Ms Wilcox also expressed her sympathy to his mother, who was listening to proceedings on the phone.

Police had previously given his surname as McCaskre and age as 41, but he also used the surname McCaskie and his age was given in court as 38.

The inquests will be reviewed on July 25.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/01/maida-vale-stabbing-police-issued-arrest-warrant-attacker-three/

Murder doesn’t require premeditation at all. That’s a myth/US legalese from detective shows creeping into discourse around the British legal system. 
 

His arrest was justified, for me, because he drove a car into someone and killed them. Whether he was justified in doing so required further investigation. Do we just take the word of everybody else whose killed somebody if they provide an excuse/justification for their actions? Nope. This case shouldn’t be treated any differently. It’s now transpired that his story stacked up and he’s just been released with no further action to be taken. 
 

I’ve edited this paragraph as I forgot he’d already been released on bail. I still can’t really fault the police for how they’ve dealt with this. 

[Bjornebye]

2 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

These ex husband stalkers are completely unhinged nutters. When I worked at a London borough, we had a refugee for battered wives. We had to keep the address a top secret because the ex husbands would turn up, sit outside in their cars 24 hours a day just waiting for their ex missus to come out so they could attack her again. Complete obsessed nutters. 

He must have had some stamina the lad 

[Rico1304]

57 minutes ago, Nelly-Fauci said:

Murder doesn’t require premeditation at all. That’s a myth/US legalese from detective shows creeping into discourse around the British legal system. 
 

His arrest was justified, for me, because he drove a car into someone and killed them. Whether he was justified in doing so required further investigation. Do we just take the word of everybody else whose killed somebody if they provide an excuse/justification for their actions? Nope. This case shouldn’t be treated any differently. It’s now transpired that his story stacked up and he’s just been released with no further action to be taken. 
 

I’ve edited this paragraph as I forgot he’d already been released on bail. I still can’t really fault the police for how they’ve dealt with this. 

Being arrested also has some protections and benefits for him.  Sounds like the system worked. 

[Captain Willard]

59 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

He must have had some stamina the lad 

You can’t over estimate the hatred these guys have. They give up their jobs, houses and sleep in their cars outside the hostel just for the chance to punch the ex in the face one more time. I was only in my 20s at the time, very shocking when you first encounter it. 

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Captain Willard said:

You can’t over estimate the hatred these guys have. They give up their jobs, houses and sleep in their cars outside the hostel just for the chance to punch the ex in the face one more time. I was only in my 20s at the time, very shocking when you first encounter it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dockers_strike]

2 hours ago, Nelly-Fauci said:

Murder doesn’t require premeditation at all. That’s a myth/US legalese from detective shows creeping into discourse around the British legal system. 
 

His arrest was justified, for me, because he drove a car into someone and killed them. Whether he was justified in doing so required further investigation. Do we just take the word of everybody else whose killed somebody if they provide an excuse/justification for their actions? Nope. This case shouldn’t be treated any differently. It’s now transpired that his story stacked up and he’s just been released with no further action to be taken. 
 

I’ve edited this paragraph as I forgot he’d already been released on bail. I still can’t really fault the police for how they’ve dealt with this. 

I disagree. Manslaughter is defined in the UK by the CPS as

 

Manslaughter can be committed in one of three ways:

1. Killing with the intent for murder but where a partial defence applies, namely loss of control, diminished responsibility or killing pursuant to a suicide pact.
2. Conduct that was grossly negligent given the risk of death, and did kill ("gross negligence manslaughter"); and
3. Conduct taking the form of an unlawful act involving a danger of some harm that resulted in death ("unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter").

Murder is defined in the UK by the CPS as

• Of sound mind and discretion (i.e. sane);
• unlawfully kills (i.e. not self-defence or other justified killing);
• any reasonable creature (human being); 
• in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs - Rance v Mid-Downs Health Authority (1991) 1 All ER 801 and AG Ref No 3 of 1994 (1997) 3 All ER 936;
• under the Queen's Peace (not in war-time);
• with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH).

 

It can be seen by the CPS' own definition that, if the suspect was to be arrested manslaughter would have been the correct procedure. That will no doubt be argued over by lawyers if it gets to court ie prosecution thrown out as not in the public good.

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

[Captain Willard]

6 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Police had an arrest warrant for the guy for 3 weeks prior to the woman's murder. It's not like he'd be hard to find.

 

I dont think most sane people would expect the Police to not investigate this incident but to arrest the guy on suspicion of murder off the bat?

 

The Police can ask you questions without arresting you and can even ask you to attend the local nick for interview with or without a brief, under caution or not.

 

'Murder' also suggests pre meditation which this clearly wasnt. If they were going to arrest, why not manslaughter?

 

A mother of two who was killed on a busy street by her ex-husband died from stab wounds after a 'have-a-go hero' allegedly used his car to try and break up the attack.

Yasmin “Wafah” Chkaifi, 43, was murdered just minutes away from her home outside the entrance to a park in Maida Vale, west London.

A 26-year-old motorist is alleged to have run over and killed the knifeman, Leon McCaskie, during the assault, before being arrested on suspicion of murder. He has since been released on bail.

An inquest at Westminster Coroner’s Court heard an arrest warrant for Mr McCaskie had been issued three weeks prior to the incident.

Speaking after the incident, family members of Ms Chkaifi praised the driver for his "heroic" actions.

The inquest heard Ms Chkaifi suffered a “truly shocking and distressing death”.

 

Family members including her two sons listened in to the short remote hearing on Tuesday.

Advertisement

Investigating officer DCI Neil Rawlinson told the hearing: "Leon McCaskie and Yasmin Chkaifi had been in a relationship that ended several years ago. There were allegations of domestic abuse, and a stalking prevention order had been put in place against Leon.

"Leon had been arrested and charged for breaching this order, but failed to appear for his first hearing at court. A warrant was issued for his arrest on January 4 2022.

"The two parties lived very close to one another in the Maida Vale area. On Monday, January 24 2022 at about 9am, Leon accosted Yasmin in the street, and repeatedly stabbed her with a knife.

"A member of public in a passing car, saw this and used his vehicle to drive into Leon in an attempt to stop the assault. Both Leon and Yasmin were declared deceased at the scene.

"An investigation has been taking place with me as the senior investigating officer. We have secured CCTV footage of the incident and obtained statements from several eyewitnesses who told us what they saw.

Advertisement

"We do continue to make efforts to get statements from other potential witnesses whose details we have. Police action between January 4 and 24 is currently subject to an independent investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct."

Metropolitan Police officers at the scene on Chippenham Road, Maida Vale Credit: Aaron Chown /PA

Ms Chkaifi's cause of death was given as multiple stab wounds.

Witnesses at the scene described how events unfolded in the quiet residential road shortly after 9am when a man approached a woman, knocked her to the ground and began stabbing her.

They claimed the attacker had a “large kitchen knife” which he plunged into Ms Chkaifi’s chest “up to 10 times” as shocked onlookers tried to intervene.

Coroner Professor Fiona Wilcox said: "I would like to pass my sympathy to Yasmin's family for their loss. This is a truly shocking and distressing death and I cannot imagine what you must be going through as a family at this time."

The inquest into Mr McCaskie's death was opened and adjourned in a separate remote hearing.

The court heard that his cause of death was multiple injuries.

Advertisement

Ms Wilcox also expressed her sympathy to his mother, who was listening to proceedings on the phone.

Police had previously given his surname as McCaskre and age as 41, but he also used the surname McCaskie and his age was given in court as 38.

The inquests will be reviewed on July 25.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/01/maida-vale-stabbing-police-issued-arrest-warrant-attacker-three/

The guy in the car has  been released without charge. I was wrong. Lesson learned. 

[dockers_strike]

1 minute ago, Captain Willard said:

The guy in the car has  been released without charge. I was wrong. Lesson learned. 

I wasnt aware he had been but common sense has prevailed.

 

Other posters can consider 'intent' and 'premedited' as having different meanings if they so wish but the CPS is clear.

[Rico1304]

18 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I disagree. Manslaughter is defined in the UK by the CPS as

 

Manslaughter can be committed in one of three ways:

1. Killing with the intent for murder but where a partial defence applies, namely loss of control, diminished responsibility or killing pursuant to a suicide pact.
2. Conduct that was grossly negligent given the risk of death, and did kill ("gross negligence manslaughter"); and
3. Conduct taking the form of an unlawful act involving a danger of some harm that resulted in death ("unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter").

Murder is defined in the UK by the CPS as

• Of sound mind and discretion (i.e. sane);
• unlawfully kills (i.e. not self-defence or other justified killing);
• any reasonable creature (human being); 
• in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs - Rance v Mid-Downs Health Authority (1991) 1 All ER 801 and AG Ref No 3 of 1994 (1997) 3 All ER 936;
• under the Queen's Peace (not in war-time);
• with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH).

 

It can be seen by the CPS' own definition that, if the suspect was to be arrested manslaughter would have been the correct procedure. That will no doubt be argued over by lawyers if it gets to court ie prosecution thrown out as not in the public good.

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

You can’t be arrested for manslaughter because all the mitigation can only be put forward at trial or decided by the CPS.  

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

1 minute ago, dockers_strike said:

I disagree. Manslaughter is defined in the UK by the CPS as

 

Manslaughter can be committed in one of three ways:

1. Killing with the intent for murder but where a partial defence applies, namely loss of control, diminished responsibility or killing pursuant to a suicide pact.
2. Conduct that was grossly negligent given the risk of death, and did kill ("gross negligence manslaughter"); and
3. Conduct taking the form of an ;b]unlawful act involving a danger of some harm that resulted in death ("unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter").[/b]

Murder is defined in the UK by the CPS as

• Of sound mind and discretion (i.e. sane);
• unlawfully kills (i.e. not self-defence or other justified killing);
• any reasonable creature (human being); 
• in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs - Rance v Mid-Downs Health Authority (1991) 1 All ER 801 and AG Ref No 3 of 1994 (1997) 3 All ER 936;
• under the Queen's Peace (not in war-time);
• with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH).

It can be seen by the CPS' own definition that, if the suspect was to be arrested manslaughter would have been the correct procedure. That will no doubt beargued over by lawyers if it gets to court ie prosecution thrown out as not in the public good.

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

I disagree. It could fall under the third manslaughter category. But, this consists of the commission of an unlawful act where the victim "inadvertently” dies. It’s more appropriate for one punch killings where the death isn’t intended, nor is there an intention to cause serious harm, but the victim nevertheless dies. 
 

I don’t agree that the death in the car case was in anyway inadvertent. It was intended.

 

If you intentionally drive a car at somebody and kill them then that clearly satisfies both the guilty act and guilty mind that is required to establish the offence of murder. It is sufficient if the accused intended to kill or cause serious harm. And, that intent shouldn’t be misinterpreted as meaning a desire, plan, goal of the accused. 

 

It can be an "oblique” intent - it might not have been his primary objective, which it now transpires was to try to save the woman - but as the death or serious injury of the deceased was a virtually certain consequence of his actions, the law would provide that he’s intended (obliquely) to kill or cause serious harm to the deceased. The prime example given in legal studies is throwing a brick at somebody who is behind a closed window. Your desire is to hit the person with the brick. But, in reaching that goal, a virtually certain consequence of your action - throwing the brick - is that the window will break. Therefore, you intend to hit a person with a brick, but you also (obliquely) intend to break the window too even if it wasn’t even part of your thought process when chucking the brick.
 

The real pivotal and decisive issue at play 

was whether the killing was done as an acceptable act of self defence or not, which would also determine whether the killing was either a lawful or unlawful one. But, this point of enquiry is still part of a murder investigation. And is what would’ve been investigated by the police while this bloke was on bail. That’s why he was arrested on suspicion of murder and why this was procedurally sound and the correct course of action to take. As were the decisions to bail him while investigations were carried out and then to take no further action once his story was verified. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

16 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I wasnt aware he had been but common sense has prevailed.

 

Other posters can consider 'intent' and 'premedited' as having different meanings if they so wish but the CPS is clear.

Intent in a legal context has a different meaning to the standard definition of the word. 
 

At least it did in the precedent cases of Woolin, Hancock and Shankland etc. 

 

Amateur. 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Nelly-Fauci said:

Intent in a legal context has a different meaning to the standard definition of the word. 
 

At least it did in the precedent cases of Woolin, Hancock and Shankland etc. 

 

Amateur. 

There are whole textbooks dedicated to understanding this bit of the law, but DS has it pinned in a paragraph.