Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

As for evidence, I'm sure he has some I can imagine him having some.

 

Outstanding.

 

Yes, you do seem to imagine quite a lot.

 

Unless you want to provide even a smidgen of evidence that Ron wasn't talking out of his shiny hoop, we are very much done here.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Outstanding.

 

Yes, you do seem to imagine quite a lot.

 

Unless you want to provide even a smidgen of evidence that Ron wasn't talking out of his shiny hoop, we are very much done here.

I have ? The slander against Corbyn? Does that not count? You have zero evidence to counter his claim. Not a fucking thing other than what I assume you will imply that he "is". 

So yep, we are done here.

[Bruce Spanner]

12 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Outstanding.

 

Yes, you do seem to imagine quite a lot.

 

Unless you want to provide even a smidgen of evidence that Ron wasn't talking out of his shiny hoop, we are very much done here.

 

8 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I have ? The slander against Corbyn? Does that not count? You have zero evidence to counter his claim. Not a fucking thing other than what I assume you will imply that he "is". 

So yep, we are done here.

 

[Strontium]

9 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

You have zero evidence to counter his claim.

 

That's. Not. How. Evidence. Works.

 

Look, it's clear that you're an idiot, which isn't a crime in itself, but you should at least be aware of your limitations.

 

Demanding I provide evidence (what would this evidence even look like?) that Starmer isn't, in fact, an agent secretly under the direct command of Israel, is the sort of demand that only somebody with serious cognitive issues would make.

 

Sometimes nutcases are just nutcases, and your incessant need to defend them simply because they happen to be on "your" side, is an affront to reason.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

That's. Not. How. Evidence. Works.

 

Look, it's clear that you're an idiot, which isn't a crime in itself, but you should at least be aware of your limitations.

 

Demanding I provide evidence (what would this evidence even look like?) that Starmer isn't, in fact, an agent secretly under the direct command of Israel, is the sort of demand that only somebody with serious cognitive issues would make.

 

Sometimes nutcases are just nutcases, and your incessant need to defend them simply because they happen to be on "your" side, is an affront to reason.

Nice try. Keep throwing new fake bits into an argument that you think are subtle while continuing to make yourself look like the twerp you are.... It's really quite fun. Let's face reality, you're a cunt. You've always been a cunt. You'll always be a cunt. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Dumb for Cooper to bring Israel into his criticism of Starmer. That's exactly the kind of shit that feeds into the accusations of antisemitism.

 

It's fine to question a powerful lobby, Israel being one such, but intimating a domestic political leader is somehow commanded by Israel in any capacity is tiptoeing towards the Protocols of the Elders of Zion territory. 

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Dumb for Cooper to bring Israel into his criticism of Starmer. That's exactly the kind of shit that feeds into the accusations of antisemitism.

 

It's fine to question a powerful lobby, Israel being one such, but intimating a domestic political leader is somehow commanded by Israel in any capacity is tiptoeing towards the Protocols of the Elders of Zion territory. 

Yep, dumb because of the backlash. Basically means though shalt not mention Israel without the expected negative backlash. Why? Where have we seen this before? Has Priti Patel not just put a motion through the portray journalists who speak badly of MP's as traitors? 

 

But, a life long humanitarian and civil rights activist is an anti-semite for standing up for people who are victims of genocide. That's all that matters really isn't it. 

[Arniepie]

16 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Dumb for Cooper to bring Israel into his criticism of Starmer. That's exactly the kind of shit that feeds into the accusations of antisemitism.

 

It's fine to question a powerful lobby, Israel being one such, but intimating a domestic political leader is somehow commanded by Israel in any capacity is tiptoeing towards the Protocols of the Elders of Zion territory. 

Saying America tells us what to do is a ok.

Saying isreal holds any away means you are a huge racist.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

You can (as I do) say Israel holds sway, and the lobby is particularly powerful. You can criticise an Israeli diplomat for conflating pro-Palestine messages for antisemitism, smearing Emma Watson as an antisemite. You can call into question illegal - by international standards - land grabs and settlement building. You can say they shouldn't be in Eurovision.

 

But intimating a domestic politician is somehow carrying out their commands is just idiotic. That so many on the left will jump to whataboutery is one of the reasons we ended up in this shit storm. Corbyn is not antisemitic, the left is not antisemitic, but a fuckton of the red-flag waving, beret -wearing comrade brigade (whose hearts are generally in the right place) have a massive blind spot for it that means liking murals and shoehorning Israel into critiques of otherwise unconnected people doesn't ring the slightest alarm bell. That worries me. It worries me that we'll still be having these same conversations come general election time, and facing a perpetual Tory government in part due to this arrested development.

 

Anyway, that's my 2p.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

28 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

Dumb for Cooper to bring Israel into his criticism of Starmer. That's exactly the kind of shit that feeds into the accusations of antisemitism.

 

It's fine to question a powerful lobby, Israel being one such, but intimating a domestic political leader is somehow commanded by Israel in any capacity is tiptoeing towards the Protocols of the Elders of Zion territory. 

Indeed. The rest of the tweet was designed to annoy Labour Centrists - the last few words just gives them a big stick to beat you (and, by association, all Democratic Socialists - because that's how the Labour Party works now) with.

 

That tweet would probably fall foul of section 7 of the Code of Conduct that Corbyn and Jenny Formby tried to implement.

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

You can (as I do) say Israel holds sway, and the lobby is particularly powerful. You can criticise an Israeli diplomat for conflating pro-Palestine messages for antisemitism, smearing Emma Watson as an antisemite. You can call into question illegal - by international standards - land grabs and settlement building. You can say they shouldn't be in Eurovision.

 

But intimating a domestic politician is somehow carrying out their commands is just idiotic. That so many on the left will jump to whataboutery is one of the reasons we ended up in this shit storm. Corbyn is not antisemitic, the left is not antisemitic, but a fuckton of the red-flag waving, beret -wearing comrade brigade (whose hearts are generally in the right place) have a massive blind spot for it that means liking murals and shoehorning Israel into critiques of otherwise unconnected people doesn't ring the slightest alarm bell. That worries me. It worries me that we'll still be having these same conversations come general election time, and facing a perpetual Tory government in part due to this arrested development.

 

Anyway, that's my 2p.

All you've done there is (rightly) indicated the difference between anti-semitism and genuine questioning. Unfortunately we live in a society where any questioning of Israel results in (wrongly) being accused on being an anti-semite. 

 

Murals, depictions and actual anti-semitism is fucking abhorrent. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

22 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Saying America tells us what to do is a ok.

Saying isreal holds any away means you are a huge racist.

The difference is that there is a classic trope - older than the state of Israel - about Jews controlling the world. If you want to make (justified) criticism of the political sway Israel has over some politicians (e.g. Labour Friends of Israel) you need to do it carefully, to make it clear that there's nothing anti-Semitic in your comments. It's best not to bandy half-arsed accusations around in a tweet.

[sir roger]

Starmer has made it clear that of the Jewish community he has no interest in dealing with any other bodies than the ultra conservative BoD , or the strongly Zionist JLM , and any other Jewish members who don't align with their views are the wrong sort of Jew. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

All you've done there is (rightly) indicated the difference between anti-semitism and genuine questioning. Unfortunately we live in a society where any questioning of Israel results in (wrongly) being accused on being an anti-semite. 

 

Murals, depictions and actual anti-semitism is fucking abhorrent. 

The thing is, it's not a totally unique scenario. Criticise Russia and the regime will deflect with Russophobia (which I always think sounds like disliking Rene Russo - absurd given her topless scene in The Thomas Crown Affair remake).

 

China play the same way, and the Muslim Council are as adept as the Board of Deputies in using their political clout. The problem is, as Angry points out, the classic tropes and the horror of recent history. Which is why extra care is needed.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Starmer has made it clear that of the Jewish community he has no interest in dealing with any other bodies than the ultra conservative BoD , or the strongly Zionist JLM , and any other Jewish members who don't align with their views are the wrong sort of Jew. 

Wonder what his thoughts are on these fine gentleman

 

 

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Babb'sBurstNad said:

The thing is, it's not a totally unique scenario. Criticise Russia and the regime will deflect with Russophobia (which I always think sounds like disliking Rene Russo - absurd given her topless scene in The Thomas Crown Affair remake).

 

China play the same way, and the Muslim Council are as adept as the Board of Deputies in using their political clout. The problem is, as Angry points out, the classic tropes and the horror of recent history. Which is why extra care is needed.

I'm not a fan of 'trope' and understand the difference between anti-semitism and non anti-semitism. We have seen on here recently muslim trope but that seems to get overlooked? I despise anti-semitism as much as I despise racism in any form. 

[sir roger]

Like me , he is probably thinking that he had no idea that Jack Black was an orthodox jew.

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

On 06/07/2021 at 13:05, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Haha, I already mentioned this in the Inequality thread.

 

I was going to put it here, but this thread gives me the heebie-jeebies.

You seem to quite often bump a thread that allegedly gives you the "heebie-jeebies." 

 

Would you like some assistance in extinguishing your trousers? 

[Bjornebye]

26 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

You seem to quite often bump a thread that allegedly gives you the "heebie-jeebies." 

 

Would you like some assistance in extinguishing your trousers? 

 

 

[Strontium]

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Wonder what his thoughts are on these fine gentleman

 

Hopefully he thinks they're a bunch of cunts like any decent person, since they're essentially the Jew equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

I'm not a fan of 'trope' and understand the difference between anti-semitism and non anti-semitism.

 

Yeah, you're a real expert.

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Hopefully he thinks they're a bunch of cunts like any decent person, since they're essentially the Jew equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

 

Yeah, you're a real expert.

I mean following up the first statement with the last one absolutely sums up how laughable you are. 

 

It's not like you've recently used anti-muslim trope or anything ...... oh. 

 

 

[Strontium]

6 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I mean following up the first statement with the last one absolutely sums up how laughable you are. 

 

It's not like you've recently used anti-muslim trope or anything ...... oh. 

 

No, it sums up that the sum total of what you know about Jews, antisemitism, and the history of antisemitic tropes, could be written on the scrotum of a gnat.

 

If you're trying to suggest that criticism of religious dogma is even in the same ballpark as anti-Jewish tropes, then you're even more of a buffoon than I thought. 

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

No, it sums up that the sum total of what you know about Jews, antisemitism, and the history of antisemitic tropes, could be written on the scrotum of a gnat.

 

If you're trying to suggest that criticism of religious dogma is even in the same ballpark as anti-Jewish tropes, then you're even more of a buffoon than I thought. 

I asked you a question earlier, more than once. I'll ask again...

 

What is wrong with questioning Israel having political weight? You keep avoiding it. Where is the 'trope'? 

 

Let's face it, you're full of shit. Hypocrisy and shit. 

[Strontium]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I asked you a question earlier, more than once. I'll ask again...

 

What is wrong with questioning Israel having political weight? You keep avoiding it. Where is the 'trope'? 

 

Let's face it, you're full of shit. Hypocrisy and shit. 

 

Oh yes, avoiding that question by answering it already. Do you need it in all caps?

NOTHING IS WRONG WITH QUESTIONING ISRAEL HAVING POLITICAL WEIGHT

 

However, if your understanding of this topic wasn't so facile, then you would know that wasn't the problem.

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Oh yes, avoiding that question by answering it already. Do you need it in all caps?

NOTHING IS WRONG WITH QUESTIONING ISRAEL HAVING POLITICAL WEIGHT

 

However, if your understanding of this topic wasn't so facile, then you would know that wasn't the problem.

Oh right, so what has he done wrong? You didn't answer the question so don't lie and imply that you did. Seriously, stop lying. 

 

Also, the westboro baptist church comment.... You were joking right?