Roberto Firmino

[dockers_strike]

Any player who doesn't want to play in one of the best teams in Europe managed by one of the best managers in the world will never be a big loss. I don't think Firmino is one of those players. Klopp has brought him on leaps and bounds while here and he owes Klopp big time. Not that it makes any difference in modern football but could and would replace him if needed. I don't think that's a problem just yet.

 

Bit of a negative post about Bobby.

[VladimirIlyich]

Bit of a negative post about Bobby.

Not really. I did say that I don't reckon Firmino is somebody looking to jump ship just yet. Its foolish to think any modern footballer won't want away,especially a Brazilian,but I have enough confidence in Klopp to handle it either way.

[Wezza]

‘The committee have yet to explain how they came up with the figure of £29million to sign Brazilian forward Roberto Firmino from Hoffenheim, who finished eighth in the Bundesliga last season.’

 

It was a sentence that was supposed to condemn Liverpool’s famed transfer committee. Head of recruitment at the time, Michael Edwards, was the intended target, as Neil Ashton scoffed at what he considered a risible valuation. But little over two years on from a Daily Mail piece that has aged about as well as ’90s fashion, the point remains: exactly how did Liverpool sign Roberto Firmino for £29m?

 

As the Brazilian shrugged off £47.5m John Stones before chipping the ball over £34.3m Ederson at a raucous Anfield, it was impossible not to wonder. “Firmino is one of the most underrated players in the Premier League,” crowed Jamie Carragher on Sunday. “He’s the first name on the teamsheet.”

 

Yet even at Liverpool, this is a player who has never demanded centre stage. He was the club’s third-top scorer in each of his first two seasons, and now trails behind Mohamed Salah. He started fewer Premier League games than James Milner in 2015/16, and was named in fewer match-day squads than Ragnar Klavan in 2016/17. He was overshadowed by Philippe Coutinho, unfairly cast as the club’s lesser Brazilian talent. He has excelled as a member of the supporting cast, not as a lead actor.

 

Something has certainly changed. No Liverpool player has played more games or featured for more minutes in all competitions this season. A man who has had to overcome Christian Benteke, Daniel Sturridge and Divock Origi in the battle to become Jurgen Klopp’s striker has endured and evolved into his manager’s most important asset.

 

It has not been easy. Firmino started his career in Brazil as a full-back and then a centre-half, before finally settling as a defensive midfielder in the youth system at his first club. He was only used in more advanced positions when he broke through at Figueirense as a teenager. Then at Hoffenheim, his greatest success came as a No. 10 behind the free-scoring Anthony Modeste.

 

This was the position he would eventually reprise at Liverpool. Brendan Rodgers initially used Firmino as a right-winger – and famously a right wing-back at Manchester United – before his sacking in October 2015, before Klopp sought to replicate his successful Bundesliga partnership with Modeste, using Benteke as the central striker.

 

The results were mixed. Each of Firmino’s best displays in his debut season came as a centre-forward. He assisted one goal in a fine 3-1 victory over Chelsea in October, scored one and set two up in a 4-1 win against Manchester City in November, netted twice in a 3-3 draw with Arsenal in January 2016, and impressed against both Norwich and Sunderland. He scored or assisted 11 Premier League goals in eight starts as a centre-forward in 2015/16, and seven in 16 starts as a right-winger or No. 10. The difference was stark, and Klopp took notice.

 

“I wasn’t a striker before but as I’ve been adapting into this position I’ve liked it more and more,” Firmino said earlier this week. “I feel really comfortable and really adapted to it. Since Jürgen Klopp became our manager, this has been my new position.”

 

The faith placed in Firmino by his manager was clear from the summer. Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea all spent club-record fees on strikers, while Tottenham signed a £15m back-up; Manchester City purchased Gabriel Jesus in January and pursued Alexis Sanchez over the last two transfer windows. Klopp signed Dominic Solanke, and resisted all calls to sign a more natural central striker. Firmino’s response has been to match the numbers produced by his Premier League peers – he has scored as many goals in all competitions as Romelu Lukaku, and only four players have outscored him.

 

To thrive as a centre-forward under Klopp is no simple task. His style demands work-rate, intelligence, movement, fluidity, flexibility and a willingness to commit to the cause. For Klopp, Gegenpressing is the quickest route to goalscoring, and Firmino is the perfect navigator. To that effect, he embodies Liverpool’s attack.

 

Since Klopp’s October 2015 appointment, Firmino has made nine more appearances, scored three more goals and provided seven more assists than any Liverpool player. Many wondered who would take Philippe Coutinho’s mantle, but Firmino was already the club’s most important player.

 

It was Firmino who led the charge against the runaway league leaders on Sunday. He scored, he assisted, he tackled, he created. He was the facilitator of a thrilling victory, improving the performances of each of his teammates. As Klopp said in November, he “looks like the engine of the team”.

 

It is a description Firmino has embraced. “I like to work hard,” he said earlier this week. “I like to drop back and help defend because that then turns into attack, turns into goals, so I don’t mind being called the ‘engine’ of the team.”

 

But actions speak louder than words, and Firmino’s message grows more deafening with each passing game. Since the start of the 2015/16 season, he has made a combined 213 tackles and interceptions in the Premier League. Wilfried Zaha (196), Alexis Sanchez (175) and Marko Arnautovic (157) are struggling to keep the pace.

 

The cliché goes that attack is the best form of defence, but if the opposite is true then Firmino is one of Europe’s most effective forwards. He is Liverpool’s engine, engine No. 9, the perfect striker for Klopp’s system. And he somehow only cost £29m.

 

Matt Stead

[Hades]

Good read.

[Trumo]

The fee was actually around £22m, with add-ons taking it up to £29m. Not sure how many of those add-on stipulations we've met.

[Carvalho Diablo]

[coughs]

[Bob]

There's a lot of positive articles about him in the last few days, from all sources.

 

I'd imagine journos must be confident he's not going to be given any sanction otherwise I'm not sure they'd be gushing this much, but even still it makes me somewhat uncomfortable reading all this glowing oraise

[TheHowieLama]

The fee was actually around £22m, with add-ons taking it up to £29m. Not sure how many of those add-on stipulations we've met.

 

If he hasn't met them they were not very well thought out.

[Elite]

If he hasn't met them they were not very well thought out.

If they put a teeth whitening clause in they'll be quids in.

[Chairman Meow]

As the Brazilian shrugged off £47.5m John Stones before chipping the ball over £34.3m Ederson at a raucous Anfield, it was impossible not to wonder. “Firmino is one of the most underrated players in the Premier League,” crowed Jamie Carragher on Sunday. “He’s the first name on the teamsheet.”

 

Nothing to do with the content overall but I fucking hate the way the press imply shit like that. Carra wasn't in the least bit gloating about it, he simply said it in a perfectly normal way.

 

It's like those articles with headline saying someone "roars" or "blasts" then if you actually read what they said it's something totally innocuous and reasonable.

[Pureblood]

Press reporting exaggerated, roars TLW's chevettehs. 

[Chairman Meow]

That was more of a blast than a roar. 

[Hades]

Nothing to do with the content overall but I fucking hate the way the press imply shit like that. Carra wasn't in the least bit gloating about it, he simply said it in a perfectly normal way.

 

It's like those articles with headline saying someone "roars" or "blasts" then if you actually read what they said it's something totally innocuous and reasonable.

 

By the same token, people can use civil language to describe very horrible things. Subtext matters. 

[TheHowieLama]

TK421 is lyin' roars chevettehs.

[Anubis]

Bobby's stats from the Echo live blog. Get him signed to a new contract, quick!

 

 

[amli]

Bobby's stats from the Echo live blog. Get him signed to a new contract, quick!

 

 

Surprised at the Kane chance conversion.

I thought he was supposed to be this great finisher, yet he is behind Salah who apparently misses a lot of his chances.

[Grinch]

Still wont stop stupid cunts talking about him not being a forward and a clinical finisher needed.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Bobby's stats from the Echo live blog. Get him signed to a new contract, quick!

 

 

 

Where is wonder boy Sanchez on those lists? 

[Red House]

Depends on what the 'chance' in chance conversion stands for. If they are simply using amounts of shots taken as the denominator, then their chance conversion would be one fucking shite way of operationalising finishing ability. It's pretty obvious Kane takes far more long shots than anyone else, precisely because of his superior shooting ability, so it's a no brainer that he will have a conversion figure lower than his intrinsic finishing ability would deserve. In contrast, remember seeing a similar datasheet earlier this season with Sterling having one of the highest conversion rates, which I imagine would be largely down to him taking fewer shots from distance coz' he knows he is largely shite at it. So, he would still end up with an inflated conversion rate despite the countless open goals he misses. Same reason Ronaldo has always had a shitty conversion rate despite dominating the scoring charts for years. But, even assuming that they included some other variable like shot location like some of the newer models do, that would still be overly simplistic and still lacking in construct validity in my mind. The whole brand of descriptive stats that gets constantly bandied about on social media is largely shite anyway. I would hope that clubs at least use some more comprehensive predictive models, even though I am still highly skeptic as to the validity of these based on what I've come across so far.

[Guest]

Where is wonder boy Sanchez on those lists? 

Wearing sunglasses at the bottom of the list?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Wearing sunglasses at the bottom of the list?

 

How many has he scored this season? 6 or 7 isn't it. 

 

I know some will say he can't be arsed, but he looks like he is trying to me, well up to a few weeks ago anyway. 

 

 

I reckon Bobby is a far better all round player, and he's ours. Need to get that contract extended. 

[Guest]

How many has he scored this season? 6 or 7 isn't it. 

 

I know some will say he can't be arsed, but he looks like he is trying to me, well up to a few weeks ago anyway. 

 

 

I reckon Bobby is a far better all round player, and he's ours. Need to get that contract extended. 

He has 7 goals and 3 assists in 19 appearances this half season. Bobby has so much more to his game than Sanchez. Sure, he works hard like Sanchez does and wants to win but he is so strong and skilful. I have always enjoyed his skills on the ball, the way he strokes it about the pitch effortlessly but now he is adding goals and assists he is the COMPLETE player.

 

Ridiculously good.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

He has 7 goals and 3 assists in 19 appearances this half season. Bobby has so much more to his game than Sanchez. Sure, he works hard like Sanchez does and wants to win but he is so strong and skilful. I have always enjoyed his skills on the ball, the way he strokes it about the pitch effortlessly but now he is adding goals and assists he is the COMPLETE player.

 

Ridiculously good.

 

He also smiles a lot, even when things go wrong, he clearly loves the game. I doubt we'll see Sanchez smiling a lot if he signs for the Mancs, purely down to money that move and he'll be putting himself under immense pressure both with the manager and the fans. 

[cloggypop]

Where is wonder boy Sanchez on those lists?

Where's Defoe?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Where's Defoe?

 

Staying fit for England's assault in Russia.