The Financial Situation

[BENIRL]

Liverpool to I die. All my life and being more important than being Irish is being Red. Happy Christmas. Fuck the internet it tells you shit that you don't want to know.

[Moo]

 

The Facts Now:

 

1. The purchase expense will be by Wanchovia and if you don't believe it by now you soon will. Hicks and his advisors have admitted it in quotes.
   
2. Rafa is not getting nor has he got the "snoogy dogg" type of money they promised
   
3. The stadium has to be downgraded as they cannot afford the stadium they said we deserved
   
4. Hicks has a fan club in Dallas - We have Hicks out - an organisation that hates him and the way he has run a club in USA
   
5. Chris Bacombe who is a prominant LFC journo in addition to the broadsheets have said that they want to sack Rafa, and that the club will be hundreds of millions in debt very soon
   
6. Since they have come in they have presided over Athens ticket fiasco, the ticket office remains the same, we are no nearer to a stadium, we will be in more debt, and the fans remain as divided as ever. Oh and they have made us a laughing stock in the press.
   

 

 

1. Where's the quotes that the purchase debt will go on the club?

 

2. Snoogy Doogy was in reference to the calibre of player. Rafa got Torres. Of course he won't get any more if they are planning to sack him.

 

3. Yep, badly handled, unprofessional and embarrassing. However we're yet to see the new designs, it's not impossible that they might be very impressive.

 

4. Has that only become a fact since he bought into LFC?

 

5. None of that is 'fact'. And if Rafa is sacked then it's fair to say he hasn't helped himself.

 

6. Some is fact (CL final tickets, mess of a ticket office) but I wouldn't say they had or have had adequate time to sort this out. Especially with all the big issues that need resolving first.

Some is your opinion, so please don't patronise people and don't dress it up as fact.

As for us being a laughing stock. Yes the stadium situation has been handled very badly. However you've also alluded to the Rafa situation as being their fault. I think you'll find it was Rafa who brought it out in the open.

[WaltonRed]

Arsenal make 3.5m per game from ticket sales alone.

 

We on the other hand are a mess.

 

Could Moores of not jus bought Torres himself as we are no better off than we were under him

[Rashid]

1. Where's the quotes that the purchase debt will go on the club?

 

Are you a little dim or do you need to actually feel the heat in order to believe that the sun is out?

 

How about these quotes from Tillis who is Hicks representative and also Tom Hicks himself?

 

Hicks said: "The lead on this is being handled by Inner Circle Sports. Through them we have been talking with a number of financial institutions including Goldman Sachs on the stadium financing.

 

"We have not reached any definitive conclusions yet but we are looking at a number of alternatives.

 

"The time-line for obtaining the final stadium finance package and our ability to commence construction, following approval by Liverpool City Council, calls for us to get started by early next year. Everything will be finalised long before then."

 

Tilliss said the club were considering long-term loans secured against future ticket revenue as well as shorter deals designed simply to pay for the construction of the new stadium. "The primary objective is the stadium planning," Tilliss said. "But we are also looking to put the acquisition debt on a more permanent footing. We are looking for the most innovative and flexible proposal."

[Red Nick]

Arsenal make 3.5m per game from ticket sales alone.

 

We on the other hand are a mess.

 

Could Moores of not jus bought Torres himself as we are no better off than we were under him

 

The real problem was Moores was an incompetent businesman who didnt have the balls to sack Parry,

 

He actually needed to bring someone like Morgan onto the board to help with the stadium and we needed a top quality chief exec like Crozier or David Dien

 

So Moores staying keeping the status quo would have been preferable to the existing owners but certainly wouldnt have been good in the long term

[WaltonRed]

The real problem was Moores was an incompetent businesman who didnt have the balls to sack Parry,

 

He actually needed to bring someone like Morgan onto the board to help with the stadium and we needed a top quality chief exec like Crozier or David Dien

 

So Moores staying keeping the status quo would have been preferable to the existing owners but certainly wouldnt have been good in the long term

 

It was obvious we needed change, its a shame Moores didnt have the forsight and pragmatism to change. Saying that hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[lfc4eva99]

It was obvious we needed change, its a shame Moores didnt have the forsight and pragmatism to change. Saying that hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

I understand where your coming from mate, but at the same time, if the rumors that are flying around at the moment are remotely true, then Moores and co, have displayed such poor understanding of our needs and the clubs future vision that it is baffling how we even have them leading the club for so long.

[Rashid]

Moores was leading it through inheritence... the buffoon.

[Moo]

Are you a little dim or do you need to actually feel the heat in order to believe that the sun is out?

 

How about these quotes from Tillis who is Hicks representative and also Tom Hicks himself?

 

I didn't say I didn't believe it that it is likely to happen.

I said it's not FACT, which it clearly isn't.

 

You don't seem to grasp that.

Yet it's me who's dim?

[lfc4eva99]

I know that, but the appointment of Parry has been influential to this fuck up....

 

Saying that, i hope we get some official news soon, they shouldnt let this go overboard should they....

[Rashid]

Moo - The chase for a loan to pay off the purchase debt is similiar to the chase for Torres over the summer - it is going to happen but just a matter of finding the right deal.... they have already announced that is what they are trying to do and when it is announced I will paste it here for you.

[isr]

This is pointless. 95 to 99% of Liverpool supporters know the score. We've been taken over by 2 lying scoundrels, who are in the process of fucking up everything we hold dear (including any pretentions we may have had of being that bit different to other clubs).

 

The remainder will just refuse to believe that there is anything serious to worry about (including the STUPID NOTION that Rafa's problems with the 2 scoundrels started with the public utterences - it didn't, that was just when it became public). The more you try to get them to face facts, the deeper they bury their heads in the sand.

 

Immovable lines drawn in the sand, and all that.

[WeAreTheBest]

The mail is shite but anyway.....

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=504209&in_page_id=1779&ito=newsnow

 

Fernando Torres, starting to pay back his £21million transfer fee, scored twice yesterday as Rafa Benitez's Liverpool trounced Portsmouth 4-1 at Anfield to stay in touch with the Premier League pacesetters.

 

 

But off the field, the failure so far of efforts by American owners George Gillett jnr and Tom Hicks to refinance the £220million they borrowed from the Royal Bank of Scotland to fund their takeover of the club 10 months ago is pushing Liverpool towards an unprecedented period of uncertainty.

The American owners have missed a selfimposed deadline to strike a deal with RBS before Christmas.

 

The bank will not allow the club to go under but the problems facing Gillett and Hicks could hasten their departure — and see Dubai International Capital, the state-backed investment firm who were in pole position to buy Liverpool before the arrival of the Americans, back in the market as potential new owners.

 

Adding to the intrigue over the club's future, it is understood that former Germany World Cup coach Jurgen Klinsmann has been sounded out as a replacement for Benitez.

 

It is believed that contact between Klinsmann and the club has taken place at a high level and the German is thought to be interested in taking over at Anfield.

 

Despite assurances that there is money to spend in the January window, Benitez's public rift with Hicks and Gillett over the club's transfer policy may be beyond repair.

 

Boardroom backing for Benitez has been lukewarm in the wake of reports linking Klinsmann with the job.

 

Sources close to the ex- Tottenham striker and former Footballer of the Year believe he is eager to end his self-imposed exile from football and take a top manager's job.

 

A move for Klinsmann could proceed regardless of whether Hicks and Gillett remain the owners of Liverpool, but the crisis in their refinancing plans threatens to undermine the club both on and off the pitch.

 

Despite revelations last week that talks with RBS and American bank Wachovia over a new £350m loan had stalled, Kekst, the American owners' New York-based PR firm, continued to brief that a deal would be done before Christmas.

 

But Friday, the last day for business before the festive break, passed without announcement and although it is understood that negotiations will continue, banking sources on this side of Atlantic believe an impasse has been reached.

 

Hicks and Gillett have until February to refinance the £220m they borrowed from RBS to fund their takeover, plus the interest which has accrued in the past year, the credit notes used to buy Torres and Ryan Babel, and £60m to cover initial work on a new stadium.

 

If they are unable to strike a deal before the deadline and unable to persuade RBS to take up the option of extending the existing loan for another year, the bank stand to become the de facto owners of the club.

[James Dean]

[Jayesh1987]

So if the bank owned us, wud that mean we would be minted? lol

[mars]

"Sources close to the ex- Tottenham striker and former Footballer of the Year believe he is eager to end his self-imposed exile from football and take a top manager's job."

 

Klinsmann was linked with Chelsea and Spurs - wonder why he didn't get either of those if he is so keen to get a top job? (Telegraph article from Sept http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/09/26/sfntot126.xml).

[Chocolate]

This is pointless. 95 to 99% of Liverpool supporters know the score. We've been taken over by 2 lying scoundrels, who are in the process of fucking up everything we hold dear (including any pretentions we may have had of being that bit different to other clubs).

 

The remainder will just refuse to believe that there is anything serious to worry about (including the STUPID NOTION that Rafa's problems with the 2 scoundrels started with the public utterences - it didn't, that was just when it became public). The more you try to get them to face facts, the deeper they bury their heads in the sand.

 

Immovable lines drawn in the sand, and all that.

 

 

AKA anyone that doesn't agree with me and run around like a headless chicken shouting how dreadful everything is are wrong and refuse to see the truth. Your one and only absolute truth.

 

What's clear is that there are and have been problems. Some things haven't worked out and they've made themselves look like cocks. Why people are going to such amazing extreme's is bad to see.

[Rashid]

If the bank owned us, they would sell to the highest bidder but we would have 15 points docked.

[Brownie]

AKA anyone that doesn't agree with me and run around like a headless chicken shouting how dreadful everything is are wrong and refuse to see the truth. Your one and only absolute truth.

 

What's clear is that there are and have been problems. Some things haven't worked out and they've made themselves look like cocks. Why people are going to such amazing extreme's is bad to see.

 

Get yourself over to the 'Manager or a Coach' thread, i'd be interested to see your views.

[Red Nick]

If the bank owned us, they would sell to the highest bidder but we would have 15 points docked.

 

Is that true I thought that only applied to Coca Cola clubs

 

Also we would have to be put in administration first and I presume the club would be sold before that happened

 

All good positive stuff for christmas

[Rashid]

Nick the two twats would sell us before the banks got to us as they would get more money than they would from the banks.

[Ritchi3]

Heres Bascombes stuff tomorrow......

 

LIVERPOOL face the shocking possibility of a second takeover within a year.

Anfield insiders believe American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett will be forced to put the club up for sale again to avoid financial meltdown just 10 months after completing their Mersey swoop.

 

And that has alerted Dubai International Capital, who were also interested in the club last February.

There are major doubts that Hicks and Gillett have the funds to pay for a £300million stadium on Stanley Park or even give manager Rafa Benitez a big transfer war chest. DIC were stunned when they were outflanked by Hicks and Gillett earlier this year but a fresh New Year bid is now a realistic prospect.

 

Hicks has denied considering diluting his 50 per cent shareholding but it's clear the financial demands upon the owners are beyond their expectations.

 

The Americans will want at least three times the £219m they paid less than a year ago. But as they have to repay a £298m loan by February, and have no deal in place to pay this debt or for a stadium, circumstances may soon give them little option but to welcome bids.

.....................................................

 

 

IF last week was a bad one for Liverpool on the pitch, their owners have been stumbling from one shambles to the next off it.

Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jnr breezed in and out of Merseyside with their usual charm but their smiles, handshakes, spin-doctored statements and guest appearances at Anfield legends' dinners belied deep concerns behind the scenes.

 

Humiliating backtracking over the design of their new stadium and an undignified showdown with their manager Rafa Benitez has been accompanied by revelations the American duo have been struggling to secure a £350million refinancing package.

 

Now plans are under way for Dubai International Capital to revive their interest in Anfield, oust the Americans and head off a potential catastrophe.

 

Kop fans, who have seen their team suffer a major blow to their Premier League title hopes with a defeat at home to Manchester United and then crash out of the Carling Cup at Chelsea, are also praying an over-valuation of the club by the Americans doesn't hinder negotiations.

 

Hicks and Gillett arrived promising stability, the preservation of Anfield traditions and a new stadium.

 

Yet, within 12 months, they have put in place a plan to sack Benitez against their fans' wishes, while making the club — and themselves — a laughing stock by unveiling an extravagant new arena they cannot afford.

 

What is even more worrying is that it is now the owners themselves who are under scrutiny by the banks who are refusing to finance their schemes.

 

Hicks and Gillett are having problems convincing lenders they have the personal securities required to attain the vast sums needed because they are either unwilling — or unable — to dip their hands deep into their own pockets.

 

Hicks and Gillett purchased the club with a £298m loan from the Royal Bank of Scotland last February. They now want to replace that debt with a further £350m loan from American bank Wachovia and a new injection from the RBS.

 

Crucially, they have been in talks to secure funds against the club's assets, breaking their promise when they bought out ex-chairman David Moores.

 

Rival

Anfield traditionalists, including members of the old board, are understood to be horrified by the recent developments.

 

The owners must still find ANOTHER £300m to pay for the stadium.

 

Although that's going to be less problematic, they still have no idea where this money will come from, opening the door for rival investors to make their move.

 

Liverpool spent five years scouring the world for an investor.

 

Having sold out, they weren't expecting the American owners to be in the same embarrassing situation 12 months later. Just last week, the club confirmed a new £400m stadium plan, unveiled amid some razzmatazz by Hicks, had been shelved because of its cost.

 

This has happened despite an estimated £1m spent on the redesign by the Dallas-based architecture firm HKS.

 

It was the News of the World who first revealed the divisions at Anfield regarding the inflated price of the stadium.

 

Hicks and Gillett have also alienated fans with their plan to sack Benitez, a plot they still intend to see through if they're in control at the end of the season.

 

What will come as an even greater shock to Kop regulars is the identity of the man they have targeted to replace him.

 

Former Germany boss Jurgen Klinsmann is the owners' preference.

 

A shortlist of candidates was drawn up months ago, including both Klinsmann and former Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho. But Mourinho now appears to be a non-starter as he has ambitions to manage in Spain or Italy, leaving Klinsmann the new favourite for the post.

 

California-based Klinsmann is known to Gillett through his sporting contacts in the United States — and he is keen to return to England in such a prestigious position.

 

But faced with the choice of either keeping Benitez or the owners and their new German appointment, Anfield fans are certain to favour a fresh takeover at the club.

 

Klinsmann, 43, has no managerial experience in club football, although he led his country to the semi-finals of the 2006 World Cup as tournament hosts.

 

Liverpool's courting of the German represents a further devastating blow to the popular Benitez, who the Americans seem intent on undermining at every turn. A gagging order has been placed on the Spaniard following last weekend's much publicised talks.

 

He was told he can keep his job until the end of the season, providing he doesn't criticise the Americans — either publicly or privately — for the rest of his tenure.

 

Benitez now finds himself working for a totalitarian regime who won't tolerate as much as a misplaced cough in any of his Press conferences.

 

The prospect of Benitez being immediately dismissed from the Anfield hotseat — a genuine possibility before his change of tack three weeks ago — has, at least, temporarily receded.

 

But Hicks and Gillett's pursuit of other managers underlines why they have failed to confirm Benitez's long-term position.

 

Now a critical few weeks lie ahead, where it is hoped several of those companies who were rivals to the Americans a year ago will re-emerge to save the club sinking any further into chaos.

 

As well as DIC, who were stunned by a last minute U-turn which denied their takeover a year ago, Northern Ireland millionaire John Miskelly has a long-standing interest in the club.

 

Save

Both parties would welcome an opportunity to revive takeover talks, and would guarantee supporters' backing by confirming the long-term future of Benitez.

 

A change of ownership would not only save the manager, more significantly, it will help restore and preserve the traditions of the Merseyside club which are currently under the most serious threat of its 115-year history.

[Rashid]

Miskelly is small time and I don't want him or Morgan.. we need to get into the big deal, and move on from all those clowns.

 

DIC come in....;)

[Jayesh1987]

Miskelly is small time and I don't want him or Morgan.. we need to get into the big deal, and move on from all those clowns.

 

DIC come in....;)

 

bring back l4 :laugh:

[Rashid]

bring back l4 :laugh:

 

Ha Ha!