PODCAST: Luton Town 1 Liverpool 1 - Match Reaction

[tlw content]

A disappointing result and performance from the Reds who needed a late intervention from the heroic Luis Diaz to prevent what would have been a hugely embarrassing defeat at Kenilworth Road. 

 

Dave Usher is joined by Ian Brown and Paul Natton to discuss what went wrong. What's the deal with Darwin and tap ins? Where was the width? Who was that wearing Szoboszlai's shirt today?

 

All this and more plus a deep dive into the weekend's controversies across the league and the absolute shambles that is VAR. Should it be scrapped?

 

 

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[Mathewbet1]

Great listen again. Thought Gravenberch deserved a mention as he was our only good starting outfield player. 

[Razoray]

I presume when predicting the Toulouse lineup, that you were all unaware that Mac Allister is unavailable fo Brentford. 

 

Enjoyed the pod, despite the result/performance 

[dave u]

No, I said I'd probably play Macca in his natural position at Toulouse.

[No2]

Good chat on the refs, although I think us telling Arsenal to fuck off isn't helpful. We need to be the bigger man here and join the pile on.  The Manchester thing is my biggest issue, what are the odds that one region develops all the top refs? What odds all the best refs are white? It's a boys club. Needs ripping up and starting again.

[Paul]

That’s a fucking great point about  the lack of diversity. How many black referees have there been in the history of the top flight. Uriah Rennie and…? Either way, it’s a fucking disgrace that no one ever comments on and nothing seems to be done about. 

[NoelM]

Glendenning being his usual windup merchant self but calling out Artetas hypocrisy.

[dave u]

5 hours ago, No2 said:

Good chat on the refs, although I think us telling Arsenal to fuck off isn't helpful. We need to be the bigger man here and join the pile on.  The Manchester thing is my biggest issue, what are the odds that one region develops all the top refs? What odds all the best refs are white? It's a boys club. Needs ripping up and starting again.

 

Agree about the refs, but Arsenal pulling that shit yesterday undermines the case against the refs. Look how many pundits are calling them out for being babies, and rightly so. What happened to Arsenal was fairly standard. Teams get decisions against them that they don't like every week, but now it's ok to put official statements out and for the manager to act like a tit when a couple of weeks ago he was telling everyone how hard it is for refs and they're trying their best.

 

It's a free for all now. This weekend a team will get a decision they don't like and they'll put out a statement, and they'll look like knobheads for doing it.

 

The time to do it was after the refs had made the mother of all fucks ups in our game. Thats when the clubs had the power to do it because it was indisputably a huge fuck up the likes of which we've never seen before. They didn't do it though, as it didn't affect them. When they are on the receiving end of far less (Dyche, Kompany and Arteta) all of a sudden they're singing a different tune.

 

The "pile on" is a joke. It's just a bunch of cry arse managers who only give a shit about the standard of refereeing when it's them on the wrong end of it. And that's why it won't have any impact and won't be taken seriously.

 

Arsenal should have kept their powder dry and approached other clubs behind the scenes and got a bunch of clubs to do something together. As it is, they look like knobheads. Theirs wasn't even the worst grievance of the weekend. Look at what happened to Wolves for the second week running.

[No2]

20 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Agree about the refs, but Arsenal pulling that shit yesterday undermines the case against the refs. Look how many pundits are calling them out for being babies, and rightly so. What happened to Arsenal was fairly standard. Teams get decisions against them that they don't like every week, but now it's ok to put official statements out and for the manager to act like a tit when a couple of weeks ago he was telling everyone how hard it is for refs and they're trying their best.

 

It's a free for all now. This weekend a team will get a decision they don't like and they'll put out a statement, and they'll look like knobheads for doing it.

 

The time to do it was after the refs had made the mother of all fucks ups in our game. Thats when the clubs had the power to do it because it was indisputably a huge fuck up the likes of which we've never seen before. They didn't do it though, as it didn't affect them. When they are on the receiving end of far less (Dyche, Kompany and Arteta) all of a sudden they're singing a different tune.

 

The "pile on" is a joke. It's just a bunch of cry arse managers who only give a shit about the standard of refereeing when it's them on the wrong end of it. And that's why it won't have any impact and won't be taken seriously.

 

Arsenal should have kept their powder dry and approached other clubs behind the scenes and got a bunch of clubs to do something together. As it is, they look like knobheads. Theirs wasn't even the worst grievance of the weekend. Look at what happened to Wolves for the second week running.

I agree it should have happened after the Diaz incident but it didn't and we are where we are. The options are to whinge forever about a missed opportunity or jump on the next refereeing catastrophe.

 

I disagree with you on the severity of the fuck up, that Arsenal incident is a million times worse than Wolves, its equal to the penalty wolves didn't get from whats his name. Its as blatant a foul as you will see in the sport, added to that the fact there is probably 2 other infringements they can't prove In the same incident, it can only be considered suspicious. I don't for a second doubt that City have benefited from some hugely favorable refereeing decisions when Arteta was at that club. He looked like a man that knows the game is corrupt and it was his turn this week. 

[dave u]

The thing is though, the ref doesn't give the initial foul and then VAR is usually reluctant to do anything about that. And they couldn't prove the offside or ball out of play. So while I also think it's a clear foul, it's not unusual for VAR to not get involved.

 

The only thing that smells fishy to me is that given the dubiousness of the other two possible infringements, human nature would make you go heavily on the foul even if you weren't entirely convinced. 

[razor]

11 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Agree about the refs, but Arsenal pulling that shit yesterday undermines the case against the refs. Look how many pundits are calling them out for being babies, and rightly so. What happened to Arsenal was fairly standard. Teams get decisions against them that they don't like every week, but now it's ok to put official statements out and for the manager to act like a tit when a couple of weeks ago he was telling everyone how hard it is for refs and they're trying their best.

 

It's a free for all now. This weekend a team will get a decision they don't like and they'll put out a statement, and they'll look like knobheads for doing it.

 

The time to do it was after the refs had made the mother of all fucks ups in our game. Thats when the clubs had the power to do it because it was indisputably a huge fuck up the likes of which we've never seen before. They didn't do it though, as it didn't affect them. When they are on the receiving end of far less (Dyche, Kompany and Arteta) all of a sudden they're singing a different tune.

 

The "pile on" is a joke. It's just a bunch of cry arse managers who only give a shit about the standard of refereeing when it's them on the wrong end of it. And that's why it won't have any impact and won't be taken seriously.

 

Arsenal should have kept their powder dry and approached other clubs behind the scenes and got a bunch of clubs to do something together. As it is, they look like knobheads. Theirs wasn't even the worst grievance of the weekend. Look at what happened to Wolves for the second week running.

 

Although I agree about Arsenal - and how much funnier it is that the club that prides itself on its integrity and tradition is acting more petulantly and entitled than Chelsea under Mourinho - maybe, actually, they are actually getting on board with Liverpool.  

 

I know we don't like the timing of it; as we all know, football clubs are wholly governed by self interest.

 

But maybe we should see it as part of the long game: if what happened to Liverpool hadn't have happened, Arteta and his cry-arse club may not have been so emboldened.

 

So what seems like a lack of buy in for change is actually just taking a bit longer than we'd hoped.

 

It started with Liverpool, but Arsenal have taken it to a different level.  Maybe the start of next season will look very different to this one...?

 

If it takes Arteta wetting his kex to get Howard Webb out the door and a root and branch review of English refereeing up and running, then that's a block of lego I can get behind.

 

[Razoray]

30 minutes ago, razor said:

 

Although I agree about Arsenal - and how much funnier it is that the club that prides itself on its integrity and tradition is acting more petulantly and entitled than Chelsea under Mourinho - maybe, actually, they are actually getting on board with Liverpool.  

 

I know we don't like the timing of it; as we all know, football clubs are wholly governed by self interest.

 

But maybe we should see it as part of the long game: if what happened to Liverpool hadn't have happened, Arteta and his cry-arse club may not have been so emboldened.

 

So what seems like a lack of buy in for change is actually just taking a bit longer than we'd hoped.

 

It started with Liverpool, but Arsenal have taken it to a different level.  Maybe the start of next season will look very different to this one...?

 

If it takes Arteta wetting his kex to get Howard Webb out the door and a root and branch review of English refereeing up and running, then that's a block of lego I can get behind.

 

I thought Arsenal were unfairly done over with the goal on Sunday but they could also have lost Havertz to a red. Burn should have got two yellows, Guimares should have got about 5 yellows and probably a red for the forearm. 

It is a bit suspicious though, that City and Newcastly rarely, if ever, are on the wrong side of calls.

Arsenal were shafted (and PGMOL apologised) for 2 decisions that cost them points last season when they were City's rivals and with Kovacic staying on the pitch this season. Arteta could have nailed them last month when we were robbed v Spurs but the louder, and more often, the shouts for a reform of PGMOL/VAR by him/Arsenal/Wolves and whoever else, is fine by me. 

 

Howard Webb is a cunt. 

[JohnnyH]

Pod time. And fuck anyone who has an issue with where I’m sitting. 
 

[johnsusername]

This talk about being in a rebuild - what happens next season when Salah leaves? Who's going to score the goals? 

 

Are we now in a perpetual rebuild (again)?

[3 Stacks]

29 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

This talk about being in a rebuild - what happens next season when Salah leaves? Who's going to score the goals? 

 

Are we now in a perpetual rebuild (again)?

This question is why the talk of our attacking options being incredible is a bit of nonsense. What all 4 others have shown so far is that they are successful as a group of 5 along with Salah, but individually none of them have yet to make a big step. 

[Supremolad]

Great podcast, Dave and Co. I agree we didn't use the width of the pitch well enough against Luton. But the solution simply isn't to ask Trent to keep running down the flank all game.

 

In this box midfield system, when Trent tucks into midfield next to the DM , the onus is upon the right sided attacking midfielder to make runs out wide when Salah drifts in. Hendo was tasked with doing that last season and executed the first part well. He made the runs but lacked sufficient quality on the ball. Enter Szobozlai.

 

Big Dom is the one who has regularly been providing some width since he signed. He even did it in the previous league game against Forest where he kept getting in that side and eventually provided an assist. Same way he set up the chance Gravenberch should have put away against Brighton. That's how the system works. Unfortunately, Szobozlai was well below par against Luton for whatever reason. Barely made any runs and was sloppy in possession. That was the problem.

[JohnnyH]

It turns out I much prefer the pods after a poor result. Much more to dissect. I hope we lose more. 
 

I was flip flopping between Dave saying arsenal are diluting the referee/VAR issue and Brownie saying we need to keep the pressure on. But I think I agree with Dave. Either way footballs fucked and we’re all going to die. 

[Supremolad]

Yeah the VAR chat was quite entertaining. Good points made on both sides of the argument.

 

Needs to be pointed out that Liverpool kicking up a fuss after the Spurs game did bring about a couple reforms from PGMOL. They've improved the communication process and there is now clarity when checks are being made. No more vague "check complete" bollocks.

[KMD7]

Great podcast lads. 

[Moo]

On 06/11/2023 at 20:49, No2 said:

I agree it should have happened after the Diaz incident but it didn't and we are where we are. The options are to whinge forever about a missed opportunity or jump on the next refereeing catastrophe.

 

I disagree with you on the severity of the fuck up, that Arsenal incident is a million times worse than Wolves, its equal to the penalty wolves didn't get from whats his name. Its as blatant a foul as you will see in the sport, added to that the fact there is probably 2 other infringements they can't prove In the same incident, it can only be considered suspicious. I don't for a second doubt that City have benefited from some hugely favorable refereeing decisions when Arteta was at that club. He looked like a man that knows the game is corrupt and it was his turn this week. 

Agree with most of this. 

I had no issue with Arsenal's statement as they barely referenced the incident(s) in the Newcastle match and made it more about the general poor standards of refereeing from the PGMOL.  Everyone should be on board with this including knobheads like Carragher and Neville, but as ever they don't want to lose their seats on the gravy train.

 

Enjoyed the podcast, thanks fellas.