Russia v Ukraine

[Leyton388]

1 hour ago, JagSquared said:

Yep I just don’t see the logic unless Putin actually believed Ukrainians would rise up and support his forces. The only thing now would be for a peace that saves face for him allowing him to withdraw his forces but the Ukrainians won’t want to give him an inch of ground. 

He and his cronies are going to be hit with all kinds of War crimes charges and will be wanted international criminals who won't be able to travel anywhere outside Russia apart from a hand full of countries. He will know this is coming so will turn Russia into North Korea MKII, which Hes already doing by putting any protesters in prison for 15 years, shutting down news outlets and banning social media. 

 

He's backed himself into a corner and completely fucked himself and his country as well. The days of the USSR will seem like the good old days to the Russian economy compared to whats coming. 

 

I myself look forward to the day Putin and Co and in the dock in the Hague. 

 

He has completely lost his mind. 

[SasaS]

41 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

In the Guardian, George Monbiot contributed to the (Pilger) witch-hunt, noting ominously that comments made by John Pilger ‘seemed to echo Putin’s speech the previous night’.

...

 

Don't quite see what it has to do with my post, but congratulations on reading the thread 30 or 40 pages back. Monblot has had it in for Pilger since he turned Milošević cheerleader (Pilger, not Monblot) and wrote a forward to some Srebrenica denier's book or something.

 

 

3 hours ago, J-V said:

Mad shit. Bringing a camera to a gun fight.

 

 

Love it how they beeped the expletives for our sensitive ears, whilst we are watching people screaming scared to death under direct gunfire.

6 hours ago, skend04 said:

I don't get this request to get a No Fly Zone set up. The Russians will still bomb the fuck out of numerous cities as missiles aren't prohibited, as far as I've heard. Unless Ukraine are running short on jets and drones then it's the last thing you'd need.

No fly zone is not going to happen, but he isn't asking for it to stop them using missiles so much as to prevent Russian air force pummeling any potential attempt of ground forces tactical maneuver. And he would like to drag NATO into the war. I think they have to use what is left of their jets and drones very sparingly.

 

 

[polymerpunkah]

Mastercard and Visa suspending operations in Russia as well.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/visa-mastercard-suspend-operations-russia-ukraine-invasion-1.6374504

 

I don't  know if they're as ubiquitous there as they are here, but if so, this will throw another major wrench into their economy.

[cochyn]

4 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

There’s no happy ending here for Russia,  at best they win the current conflicts and end up trying to control a semi derelict  country the size of France with well armed and motivated partisans attacking them every day. The West will be using it as big laboratory to develop and test small weapons. Countering the partisans will need a full time army and cost Russia millions a day.  Meanwhile they will be a pariah state for the rest of the world with no trade or investment from the west, no spare parts for their oil and gas industry and economically beholden to the Chinese. It’s a shit outcome that will bankrupt Russia within 5 years maybe less. Putin has completely fucked this up.  

Fucking nightmare scenario right there for all involved. Ergo: Never going to happen. despite the fuckery we've all lived through since 2008, the World needs to heal.

 

There will be a diplomatic solution out of this - there always is. As hard as that seems to even imagine right now - seeing as the world's netizens are all balls deep in viral war porn of the viscera of this conflict. Time always heals and humanity always prevails. It'll boil down to meeting the demands of both belligerents in my view: 

 

A) Putin wants to be seen as the 'saviour' of the Russian peoples

B) Ukraine will want to assert itself firmly within the Western hemisphere and seek massive reparations from Russia.

 

Firstly,  Russia will have to agree to a complete withdrawal of its forces from Ukrainian borders. Secondly: Ukraine can forget about joining NATO. No chance (for at least a decade - long enough for Putin to retire to his Dacha) and reopen the water supply to Crimea. Thirdly Russia and Ukraine will have to accept Crimea and the Donbas being placed under UN protectorate - potentially for a generation or at least until the wounds heal and things get peachy again.

 

Sanctions against Russia are gradually lifted as the first and second items are met. Russia will have to pay reparations to Ukraine through additional levies on the transit fees Russia pays on the gas pipelines - all of it coming out of Russia's end, not the consumer. Say +$1bn a year until Crimea/ Donbas can be peacefully resolved. Putin & Co get to be seen as the 'saviour of the oppressed Russians on Donbas/ Crimea'. Ukraine gets reparations and continued and uninterrupted alliance with the West, because we all love them now, right?

 

Job jobbed, just call be Boutros-Boutros Cochyn.

[Red Shift]

40 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Don't quite see what it has to do with my post, but congratulations on reading the thread 30 or 40 pages back. Monblot has had it in for Pilger since he turned Milošević cheerleader (Pilger, not Monblot) and wrote a forward to some Srebrenica denier's book or something.

I quoted the wrong post. 

[ManéMan]

13 minutes ago, cochyn said:

Fucking nightmare scenario right there for all involved. Ergo: Never going to happen. despite the fuckery we've all lived through since 2008, the World needs to heal.

 

There will be a diplomatic solution out of this - there always is. As hard as that seems to even imagine right now - seeing as the world's netizens are all balls deep in viral war porn of the viscera of this conflict. It'll boil down to meeting the demands of both belligerents in my view: 

 

1) Putin wants to be seen as the 'saviour' of the Russian peoples

2) Ukraine will want to assert itself firmly within the Western hemisphere seek massive reparations from Russia.

 

Firstly,  Russia will have to agree to a complete withdrawal of its forces from Ukrainian borders. Secondly: Ukraine can forget about joining NATO. No chance (for at least a decade - long enough for Putin to retire to his Dacha) and reopen the water supply to Crimea. Thirdly Russia and Ukraine will have to accept Crimea and the Donbas being placed under UN protectorate - potentially for a generation or at least until the wounds heal and things get peachy again. Sanctions against Russia are gradually lifted as items 1 and 2 are met. Russia will have to pay reparations to Ukraine through additional levies on the transit fees Russia pays on the gas pipelines - all of it coming out of Russia's end, not the consumer. Say +$1bn a year until Crimea/ Donbas can be peacefully resolved. Putin gets to be seen as the 'saviour of the oppressed Russians on Donbas/ Crimea'. Ukraine gets reparations and continued and uninterrupted alliance with the West, because we all love them now, right?

 

Job jobbed, just call be Boutros-Boutros Cochyn.

Sounds like pie in the sky that

[cochyn]

2 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

Sounds like pie in the sky that

Where do you see this ending?

[ManéMan]

25 minutes ago, cochyn said:

Where do you see this ending?

This feels like the beginning of the end. 

I don't think Putin is willing to accept the humiliation that you suggest and neither are the west willing to endure the humiliation of having to stand idly despite all it's perceived power and not aiding a country that they have enticed into confrontation.

[Pureblood]

42 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

Sounds like pie in the sky that

It was a good Jackanory bedtime story.

[dockers_strike]

59 minutes ago, cochyn said:

Fucking nightmare scenario right there for all involved. Ergo: Never going to happen. despite the fuckery we've all lived through since 2008, the World needs to heal.

 

There will be a diplomatic solution out of this - there always is. As hard as that seems to even imagine right now - seeing as the world's netizens are all balls deep in viral war porn of the viscera of this conflict. Time always heals and humanity always prevails. It'll boil down to meeting the demands of both belligerents in my view: 

 

A) Putin wants to be seen as the 'saviour' of the Russian peoples

B) Ukraine will want to assert itself firmly within the Western hemisphere and seek massive reparations from Russia.

 

Firstly,  Russia will have to agree to a complete withdrawal of its forces from Ukrainian borders. Secondly: Ukraine can forget about joining NATO. No chance (for at least a decade - long enough for Putin to retire to his Dacha) and reopen the water supply to Crimea. Thirdly Russia and Ukraine will have to accept Crimea and the Donbas being placed under UN protectorate - potentially for a generation or at least until the wounds heal and things get peachy again.

 

Sanctions against Russia are gradually lifted as the first and second items are met. Russia will have to pay reparations to Ukraine through additional levies on the transit fees Russia pays on the gas pipelines - all of it coming out of Russia's end, not the consumer. Say +$1bn a year until Crimea/ Donbas can be peacefully resolved. Putin & Co get to be seen as the 'saviour of the oppressed Russians on Donbas/ Crimea'. Ukraine gets reparations and continued and uninterrupted alliance with the West, because we all love them now, right?

 

Job jobbed, just call be Boutros-Boutros Cochyn.

Aint going to work out that way though mate. All of the above needs people to sit down around a table and jaw jaw a bit and start admitting they were wrong.

 

Ukraine wrong for pushing to join NATO and any extremism in certain parts of the country.

 

Russia, needing to accept that you cannot go back to borders and maps that existed 100-200 years ago, the Soviet empire has long gone like many before it and, people have choices.

 

Or, each doing something in between. Alas, I dont see it happening. I see devastation lies ahead and a peace retirement an evaporating ideal.

 

[cochyn]

1 minute ago, ManéMan said:

This feels like the beginning of the end. 

I don't think Putin is willing to accept the humiliation that you suggest and neither are the west willing to endure the humiliation of having to stand idly despite all it's perceived power and not aiding a country that they have enticed into confrontation.

No, it really isn't. If this had happened 25 years ago, the western world would have gnashed it's teeth and largely left them to it as a regional squabble. Now it has skin in the game (gas supply, EU/ NATO associations with Ukraine) it's in its interest to intervene (which it undoubtedly is in some capacity).

 

And how exactly has the West elicited this confrontation? I grant you, the UN's reluctance to get involved in the Donbas/ Crimea demonstrates some negligence on their part. But it doesn't excuse Russia's aggression n this theatre.

 

Putin is a cornered rat and needs a way out. Escalation would be a failure on all sides.

 

 

[Anubis]

But of course, Comrade Johnson.

 

 

[Section_31]

2 minutes ago, Anubis said:

But of course, Comrade Johnson.

 

 

 

Still blows my mind this, 'Lord Lebedev of Siberia', what the actual fuckety fuck.

[redinblack]

2 minutes ago, Anubis said:

But of course, Comrade Johnson.

 

 

These fucking Tory Rats post themselves as patriots and defenders of the country but they will show their knickers to anyone who flashes their wallets at them. Shame on them and the cunts who voted for them.

[cochyn]

18 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Aint going to work out that way though mate. All of the above needs people to sit down around a table and jaw jaw a bit and start admitting they were wrong.

 

Ukraine wrong for pushing to join NATO and any extremism in certain parts of the country.

 

Russia, needing to accept that you cannot go back to borders and maps that existed 100-200 years ago, the Soviet empire has long gone like many before it and, people have choices.

 

Or, each doing something in between. Alas, I dont see it happening. I see devastation lies ahead and a peace retirement an evaporating ideal.

 

Mate, I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek. But the fact remains: It is evident that - despite the horrors we are already witnessing -  escalation involving other nations is in no-one's long-term interest. If the war in Ukraine goes on then Russia will prevail over them through sheer numbers by throwing everything at it.

 

Then we're left with a decimated Ukraine, and heightened tensions between Russia and the West.  In short - the longer this goes on the worse it will get and the wider it's effect will be. It's time to nip this in the bud.

[cloggypop]

33 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

This feels like the beginning of the end. 

I don't think Putin is willing to accept the humiliation that you suggest and neither are the west willing to endure the humiliation of having to stand idly despite all it's perceived power and not aiding a country that they have enticed into confrontation.

 

[redinblack]

Just now, cloggypop said:

 

Ive upticked that begrudgingly

[cloggypop]

Just now, redinblack said:

Ive upticked that begrudgingly

We need songs

[cochyn]

3 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

We need songs

 

 

[redinblack]

.

 

[cloggypop]

 

[cloggypop]

 

[cloggypop]

 

[cochyn]

 

[cloggypop]