Georginio Wijnaldum

[aRdja]

If you can't appreciate what wijnaldum adds to the side then you don't understand football. Sorry.

To be fair, it's not overly obvious is it? He doesn't break up the play brilliantly like Didi used to. He doesn't play lovely perceptive passes like Xabi used to. He doesn't dominate games like Gerrard used to. He's a tidy, busy, player with decent technique. As I said, pretty much like our wee Joe, but better looking (and doesn't hide after receiving a challenge).

[aRdja]

If you can't explain what he adds, perhaps you don't understand it yourself.

 

'Adding' suggests others can't, and that's patently not true. There was no drop off when he missed half a dozen games, apart from Can being a bit rusty when rushed back.

 

In fact, the stats show we do better without him.

Yeah I'd start Can before him.

[m0e]

To be fair, it's not overly obvious is it? He doesn't break up the play brilliantly like Didi used to. He doesn't play lovely perceptive passes like Xabi used to. He doesn't dominate games like Gerrard used to. He's a tidy, busy, player with decent technique. As I said, pretty much like our wee Joe, but better looking (and doesn't hide after receiving a challenge).

He's got more strength & energy than Allen, but less nous.

[aRdja]

He's got more strength & energy than Allen, but less nous.

That's not really true is it? Allen never really showed much nous for us. His best games were when Klopp used to send him on in the middle of the second half when everyone else was tired to help us take back control of the game. He never really shone when starting a game. He also lacked courage... He had a very good start to his Liverpool career, until Fellaini clattered him.. he then hid for the rest of the game. Never really recovered from that, as now other players know that if you leave a foot in, he will hide for the rest of the game. I have yet to see that from Wijnaldum.

[Mathewbet1]

some of wijnaldum's one touch passing is very good

[m0e]

That's not really true is it? Allen never really showed much nous for us. His best games were when Klopp used to send him on in the middle of the second half when everyone else was tired to help us take back control of the game. He never really shone when starting a game. He also lacked courage... He had a very good start to his Liverpool career, until Fellaini clattered him.. he then hid for the rest of the game. Never really recovered from that, as now other players know that if you leave a foot in, he will hide for the rest of the game. I have yet to see that from Wijnaldum.

I meant in terms of decision making, and he's certainly grown over the last 12 months. Either way, it was the correct decision to sell and Wijnaldum has added an energy we were lacking last season.

 

But we were also missing Henderson for the majority of the season and Lallana's energy has been brought deeper, so I think Gini's impact is slightly exaggerated.

[aRdja]

I meant in terms of decision making, and he's certainly grown over the last 12 months. Either way, it was the correct decision to sell and Wijnaldum has added an energy we were lacking last season.

 

But we were also missing Henderson for the majority of the season and Lallana's energy has been brought deeper, so I think Gini's impact is slightly exaggerated.

I'm not sure he has grown. He plays for Stoke now, where in the majority of games, the other teams let them play, and that gives him more space to play. Of course he looks better. Say Spurs or United buy him off the back of his current form, I'm certain that he'd go back to the level he showed persistently with us.

 

On your last point, off all the signings from the summer, apart from Karius, Gini's been the most underwhelming... but that ain't so bad is it? As he's clearly not shit, and I think he will improve further as he said it himself, this is a new role for him. I'm hoping once he gains more confidence in his role, he will take more risks up the field.

[m0e]

I think his performances in the Euros were a sign of growth. He wouldn't have produced that 2 years ago.

 

He was also very good for us in the cameos as well as the many games he started in between big games. A lot of fans were wondering why he wasn't starting even more regularly.

 

I like Gini but I wouldn't start him and can't see him being a long term solution.

 

And needless to say, I'd be delighted to be proved wrong. Just like with Lovren, Lallana and Milner.

 

I want what's best for us and I think the midfield is a major talking point.

 

The rest of the side, when everyone is fit, pretty much picks itself now.

[aRdja]

some of wijnaldum's one touch passing is very good

As I said, 'tidy'.

[Mathewbet1]

arms on the fucker

[3 Stacks]

I think Joe Allen is a good and useful footballer, as is Wijnaldum. What I don't understand is why people are acting as if Wijnaldum has made us a better team or added anything substantial when he's patently doing the exact same role Allen used to do. Like most people thought Allen was average and useless when he was here but Wijnaldum is crucial and "keeps us ticking" in midfield. Weird.

 

Not only that, but now Allen is scoring a decent amount of goals while Wijnaldum's attacking play has been completely neutered. 

[aRdja]

I think his performances in the Euros were a sign of growth. He wouldn't have produced that 2 years ago.

 

He was also very good for us in the cameos as well as the many games he started in between big games. A lot of fans were wondering why he wasn't starting even more regularly.

 

I like Gini but I wouldn't start him and can't see him being a long term solution.

 

And needless to say, I'd be delighted to be proved wrong. Just like with Lovren, Lallana and Milner.

 

I want what's best for us and I think the midfield is a major talking point.

 

The rest of the side, when everyone is fit, pretty much picks itself now.

He had a very good Euro, I'm loathe to take any credit away from him. However, again he played for the underdogs (not unlike Stoke). He also had a lot of help, as he was one of four players occupying the centre of the pitch... Allen and Ledley (I think) holding and Ramsay and Bale a bit further forward. Last but not least, international form could be misleading at times, as we sadly found out with Diao, Baros, etc.

 

With Wini, if this is his ceiling, then I'd be a bit annoyed... however I think he will improve further, and say we add a controlling midfielder in January like Dahoud, then we have a pretty good midfield in Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana and Dahoud. Not the best set we've ever had, but solid with no clear weak link.

[aRdja]

I think Joe Allen is a good and useful footballer, as is Wijnaldum. What I don't understand is why people are acting as if Wijnaldum has made us a better team or added anything substantial when he's patently doing the exact same role Allen used to do. Like most people thought Allen was average and useless when he was here but Wijnaldum is crucial and "keeps us ticking" in midfield. Weird.

 

Not only that, but now Allen is scoring a decent amount of goals while Wijnaldum's attacking play has been completely neutered.

I already explained why he's playing better, because Stoke is pretty much his level.

 

Wijnaldum is not really crucial to our play is he? I think Can adds more to our game and should start when fit.

 

Also didn't we have a long discussion when I questioned his signing and you defended him saying he was what we need? What happened?

[3 Stacks]

I already explained why he's playing better, because Stoke is pretty much his level.

 

Wijnaldum is not really crucial to our play is he? I think Can adds more to our game and should start when fit.

 

Also didn't we have a long discussion when I questioned his signing and you defended him saying he was what we need? What happened?

 

No, what you said was that he wasn't a central midfielder and argued that he would play in attacking midfield for us. You were wrong of course and multiple people, including myself tried to tell you that he'd played in midfield at PSV and for Holland and that Klopp would play him deeper as well but you had your blinders on as usual.

 

As far as the signing goes, I thought it was going to be average because he wasn't the type of midfielder I thought we needed but I understood why Klopp would want his pace and athleticism in the middle of the park. You should look up the old posts to refresh your memory.

[aRdja]

No, what you said was that he wasn't a central midfielder and argued that he would play in attacking midfield for us. You were wrong of course and multiple people, including myself tried to tell you that he'd played in midfield at PSV and for Holland and that Klopp would play him deeper as well but you had your blinders on as usual.

 

As far as the signing goes, I thought it was going to be average because he wasn't the type of midfielder I thought we needed but I understood why Klopp would want his pace and athleticism in the middle of the park. You should look up the old posts to refresh your memory.

I said we needed a controlling midfielder, he wasn't even a natural centre mid as he of course admitted himself (happy to resend the link again).

 

You were like "Oh but Klopp doesn't play with a controlling midfielder (other than Sahin and Gundogan of course...), Wijnaldum would be perfect!".

 

That's okay though, I thought Allen was going to a brilliant player for us after the his first City game. Everyone makes mistakes.

[Jennings]

If you can't appreciate what wijnaldum adds to the side then you don't understand football. Sorry.

 

Where I struggle a little is what makes him a £10,000,000 upgrade on Wee Joe? Can you indulge us in specifics?

[Jennings]

Ardja has since answered my question. 

 

Repped.

[aRdja]

.

[The Golden Eel]

Like I predicted weeks ago, he's become an emperor's new clothes player among some of the fanbase. I thought he played well the other night and I think he's decent, I'm not annoyed when I see his name in the side, but he's nothing special, Can all the way.

[VladimirIlyich]

Haters gonna hate.

[Josef Svejk]

Where I struggle a little is what makes him a £10,000,000 upgrade on Wee Joe? Can you indulge us in specifics?

He's no chickenfucker, for starters...

[Guest LFD]

He needs to add more goals to his game.  We know he can do it, based on what he did at Newcastle.  He's getting in great positions to do it here, but the final finish or his teammates not passing to him in those good positions have meant him not doing that.

 

Forget Allen.  He's gone, he was weak, he lacked stamina to press for 90 mins (he would do it very well for 30 min or 45 min bursts).  He offered fuck all for us going forward for years.  He was too weak to be the deepest CM.  He did well for Wales in Euros, not in a Klopp type brand of football and he's a good lad, it's nice to see he's found his level at Stoke and is doing well there.

 

But Wijnaldum is a much better player.  He's much stronger for starters, he doesn't get brushed off the ball.  He has more energy and stamina. Wijnaldum will run around and press effectively for 90 minutes, Allen can't do that. I could go on but...

 

I don't see the point in comparing him to Allen.  Allen has gone, Klopp hardly used him unless we were short on players and it seems pointless.

 

Emre Can is the player we should be comparing Wijanldum with, as they are competing for the same spot in CM to play alongside Lallana and Henderson.  

 

Emre Can is even stronger than Wijnaldum.  He's been more productive in terms of getting goals or assists.  However we look better with Wijnaldum in the team IMO.  He's more mobile, better at pressing, has a better touch, keeps the ball better, is always there to support his teammates in possession or without it defensively.  He also makes some really clever and unselfish runs which does create space for others, which we have scored off those opportunities.

 

My one issue with Wijnaldum is I feel he plays within himself at times, a bit like Henderson does.  He's so talented, he needs to almost be less selfish at times, although I do think if some of his teammates played more like he did, playing the right pass rather than going for it on their own, we might have scored even more goals.

 

He's very much a 'pass and move' player.  Loved his assist for Woodburn, when he could have easily have gone for it himself.  That same game Mane had a simple pass to Wijnaldum for a tap in, but Mane tried to go for it himself.  Wijnaldum gets it, football is a simple game, Klopps brand of football is simple - pass, move, support, work hard, be strong - I feel he does all that and he does think quickly, far quicker than someone like Emre Can does.  Which is probably why we look more fluid when he's on the field and as the stats show we miss him when he's not on it.

 

Yes he could get more assists or goals.  I think he will, I also think he'd have more with some slightly better finishing on his part or his teammates playing the right pass to him when he's in a better position than them.  

 

Let's stop the Allen comparison, it's pointless - as he's gone.  If we are going to compare Wijnaldum to anyone it should be his competition for his spot and that is Emre Can.

 

Wijnaldum is part of a CM that has the second most possession in the league per 90 mins this season.  One that restricts the oppositions to less shots at our goal than any other side in the top European leagues.  One that is contributing to us having the best attack in the league. 

 

His problem is he isn't flashy, possibly plays within himself at times - but boy is he effective in making us a better team.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

He needs to add more goals to his game. We know he can do it, based on what he did at Newcastle. He's getting in great positions to do it here, but the final finish or his teammates not passing to him in those good positions have meant him not doing that.

 

Forget Allen. He's gone, he was weak, he lacked stamina to press for 90 mins (he would do it very well for 30 min or 45 min bursts). He offered fuck all for us going forward for years. He was too weak to be the deepest CM. He did well for Wales in Euros, not in a Klopp type brand of football and he's a good lad, it's nice to see he's found his level at Stoke and is doing well there.

 

But Wijnaldum is a much better player. He's much stronger for starters, he doesn't get brushed off the ball. He has more energy and stamina. Wijnaldum will run around and press effectively for 90 minutes, Allen can't do that. I could go on but...

 

I don't see the point in comparing him to Allen. Allen has gone, Klopp hardly used him unless we were short on players and it seems pointless.

 

Emre Can is the player we should be comparing Wijanldum with, as they are competing for the same spot in CM to play alongside Lallana and Henderson.

 

Emre Can is even stronger than Wijnaldum. He's been more productive in terms of getting goals or assists. However we look better with Wijnaldum in the team IMO. He's more mobile, better at pressing, has a better touch, keeps the ball better, is always there to support his teammates in possession or without it defensively. He also makes some really clever and unselfish runs which does create space for others, which we have scored off those opportunities.

 

My one issue with Wijnaldum is I feel he plays within himself at times, a bit like Henderson does. He's so talented, he needs to almost be less selfish at times, although I do think if some of his teammates played more like he did, playing the right pass rather than going for it on their own, we might have scored even more goals.

 

He's very much a 'pass and move' player. Loved his assist for Woodburn, when he could have easily have gone for it himself. That same game Mane had a simple pass to Wijnaldum for a tap in, but Mane tried to go for it himself. Wijnaldum gets it, football is a simple game, Klopps brand of football is simple - pass, move, support, work hard, be strong - I feel he does all that and he does think quickly, far quicker than someone like Emre Can does. Which is probably why we look more fluid when he's on the field and as the stats show we miss him when he's not on it.

 

Yes he could get more assists or goals. I think he will, I also think he'd have more with some slightly better finishing on his part or his teammates playing the right pass to him when he's in a better position than them.

 

Let's stop the Allen comparison, it's pointless - as he's gone. If we are going to compare Wijnaldum to anyone it should be his competition for his spot and that is Emre Can.

 

Wijnaldum is part of a CM that has the second most possession in the league per 90 mins this season. One that restricts the oppositions to less shots at our goal than any other side in the top European leagues. One that is contributing to us having the best attack in the league.

 

His problem is he isn't flashy, possibly plays within himself at times - but boy is he effective in making us a better team.

Excellent post that.

[lifetime fan]

Allen better than Wijnaldum?

 

Excuse me for a few minutes. I need to change my kecks I shat myself laughing.

[cuppatea]

Which is probably why we look more fluid when he's on the field and as the stats show we miss him when he's not on it.

 

What stats? As I said previously, our record when he hasn't started is P6, W5, D1, Scored 20, Conceded 4. The last game he didn't start was Watford and we were 5-0 up by the time he came on for the last half hour. He then came back into starting XI for the 0-0 at Southampton.

 

He makes himself available for the ball, shields it well and usually finds a teammate (although that's aided by some extremely conservative passing) but there's absolutely no evidence to suggest we're worse without him.