Quantcast
Middle East Thread - Page 2 - GF - General Forum - The Liverpool Way Jump to content

Welcome to the new and improved TLW!

 

Some of you may experience issues logging in and will get an 'incorrect password' error. Don't worry, you haven't typed it in wrong and your password hasn't been changed. You will need to reset it though in order to log in. Click the reset password link and you will receive an email with your new temporary password. Once logged in, you need to choose a new password (or restore to your old one) otherwise you will be locked out again.

 

If you have an out of date email address linked to your account, then you won't receive the new password. If that's the case then you'll need to email me (dave @liverpoolway.co.uk) or send me a tweet @theliverpoolway and I'll update your password manually. 

 

Any other problems or questions just let me know.

 

Thanks

Dave

Red Phoenix

Middle East Thread

Recommended Posts

The US air raids have begun. So would I be right in summing this up as

 

US creates ISIS

US funds and trains ISIS

ISIS changes it's name to Islamic State

US bombs Islamic State

 

?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, but do you really think that Americans are the answer? Particularly as there is a fair chance that they were originally US-backed?

 

Wouldn't it be good if we had a real UN?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, but do you really think that Americans are the answer? Particularly as there is a fair chance that they were originally US-backed?

 

Wouldn't it be good if we had a real UN?

 

America are not actively funding ISIS and they never have been, wealthy donors in three US allies in the middle east, Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi have been funding ISIS. So because America is allied to Qatar, Kuwait and Saudi in the Persian Gulf does not mean that they themselves funded ISIS. What it means is that the US is selling weapon caches to it's allies that end up in a roundabout way finding it's way to splinter groups, the American's can't control that, besides most weapons can be traced back to the US or Soviet Russia anyway.

 

I'm just glad they're doing something about it, they do act like the world police, but when atrocity's like this occur someone needs to mobilise against it, fair play to them for dealing with it.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, we can't go kill them, that would offend Muslims.

 

Yes, something that has definitely informed most US foreign policy recently.

 

Is this a parody account? Is someone going to own up to it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, we can't go kill them, that would offend Muslims.

 

 

There we have it.  Encapsulated in a bite sized tidbit, the sophisticated world view of the average American citizen.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Twitter reports that the Caliphate was being promoted by religious nutjobs on Oxford Street in London today. Leaflets handed out and anyone disagreeing getting abuse. Fucking mental.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Twitter reports that the Caliphate was being promoted by religious nutjobs on Oxford Street in London today. Leaflets handed out and anyone disagreeing getting abuse. Fucking mental.

 

They may well be subject to a fucking good hiding if they are doing that.  Let's hope so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get the feeling we're being lubed up for some kind of big military action again, possibly involving both Iraq and Syria.

 

You get the feeling moves are being made to build alliances, possibly reinstate some strong arm figures as the west is realising - predictably - the arab spring isn't quite what it cracked up to be. Can imagine maybe some kind of 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' style shit involving Syria, Egypt, Iran and Turkey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get the feeling we're being lubed up for some kind of big military action again, possibly involving both Iraq and Syria.

I don't.

 

The appetite for military intervention, both in the UK and US, is minimal. The cry, lazy.

 

The Iraq crisis was born out of the destruction of their administrative and physical infrastructure by the US upon invasion. There is no Western solution.

 

What is needed is the help of the Iranians, Turks, Israelis and Egyptians to negotiate a local solution. It is in none of the aforementioned's interests to have instability on their borders.

 

What Western military solution is there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Intervention in Iraq now is justified on the grounds of genocide.  ISIS are the worst we've seen yet, possibly even worse than Al Qaeda at their peak.  They need to be stopped by targeted air strikes, arming the Kurds etc or whatever it takes.

 

"We" stayed out of Syria as there were no clear good guys.  One cunt was worse than the next cunt and it was left too late to arm the moderates, who are now almost non-existent in that country.

 

What is happening in Iraq is as bad as I can ever remember anywhere, human beings stuck on top of a mountain fighting with goats for a few drops of water all becasue of their religion.  What has it all fucking come to.  Pure madness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America are not actively funding ISIS and they never have been, wealthy donors in three US allies in the middle east, Kuwait, Qatar and Saudi have been funding ISIS. So because America is allied to Qatar, Kuwait and Saudi in the Persian Gulf does not mean that they themselves funded ISIS. What it means is that the US is selling weapon caches to it's allies that end up in a roundabout way finding it's way to splinter groups, the American's can't control that, besides most weapons can be traced back to the US or Soviet Russia anyway.

 

I'm just glad they're doing something about it, they do act like the world police, but when atrocity's like this occur someone needs to mobilise against it, fair play to them for dealing with it.

 

Well said Boss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is recorded footage of the atrocities carried out by the jihadist group ISIS in the name of Islam. Obviously NSFW, the video is extremely graphic and harrowing. I don't care for the liberal agenda, i hope the americans kill each and every last one of these bastards.

 

http://madworldnews.com/isis-creates-river-blood/

As chilling a video as I have ever seen.

 

Killing ISIS Jihadists is no solution in itself , hydra-headed they will just reappear in greater numbers, as has happened with Hamas in Gaza. ISIS has prospered as state security has been dismantled, often by western interests.

 

Helping credible, representative, secular governments to form and prosper is the only long term solution. As Bob Dylan memorably said "When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose". It is not that surprising that in a power vacuum, religious extremism prospers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Intervention in Iraq now is justified on the grounds of genocide.  ISIS are the worst we've seen yet, possibly even worse than Al Qaeda at their peak.  They need to be stopped by targeted air strikes, arming the Kurds etc or whatever it takes.

 

"We" stayed out of Syria as there were no clear good guys.  One cunt was worse than the next cunt and it was left too late to arm the moderates, who are now almost non-existent in that country.

 

What is happening in Iraq is as bad as I can ever remember anywhere, human beings stuck on top of a mountain fighting with goats for a few drops of water all becasue of their religion.  What has it all fucking come to.  Pure madness.

I agree that the deteriorating situation in Iraq is intolerable. Air strikes alone will have little effect, the "whatever it takes" bit is less than clear.

 

Syria is a good example of how to get it wrong. Assad was a tyrant, but Syria and Lebanon, "worked". Countries without strong governments don't work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is nothing wrong with a benign dictator.

 

Democracy doesn't really work in countries where there are such pronounced sectarian fault lines.

 

Egypt under Mubarak (who wasn't entirely benign, but who was no Saddam Hussein either) was a lot better than the abomination that has since followed.

 

"Democracy" hasn't served Afghanistan or Iraq, to name two, very well.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is nothing wrong with a benign dictator.Democracy doesn't really work in countries where there are such pronounced sectarian fault lines.Egypt under Mubarak (who wasn't entirely benign, but who was no Saddam Hussein either) was a lot better than the abomination that has since followed."Democracy" hasn't served Afghanistan or Iraq, to name two, very well.

Your Imperial view point is quaint.

 

ISIS needs to be challenged ideologically, as well as by force, as the opportunity arises. Understanding where their support comes from, and neutralising it, is as important as physically confronting it.

 

I am afraid that sending in a gunboat won't do the trick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Xerxes is right when he says ISIS need to be challenged idealogically. 

 

ISIS needs to be challenged ideologically, as well as by force, as the opportunity arises. Understanding where their support comes from, and neutralising it, is as important as physically confronting it.

 

Agreed. Something that usually gets overlooked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Turkey need to get their heads out of their arses and lead the way on this one. If for no other reason, just because they don't want half the populations of Iraq and Syria turning up in their country as refugees

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Turkey need to get their heads out of their arses and lead the way on this one. If for no other reason, just because they don't want half the populations of Iraq and Syria turning up in their country as refugees

Turkey has a problem.

 

Back/arm the Kurds, and demand for an independent Kurdistan, including a slice of present day Turkey, may grow. Do nothing, and as you suggest, a refugee crisis may overwhelm them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your Imperial view point is quaint.

 

ISIS needs to be challenged ideologically, as well as by force, as the opportunity arises. Understanding where their support comes from, and neutralising it, is as important as physically confronting it.

 

I am afraid that sending in a gunboat won't do the trick.

Follow the money.

 

By taking out Bin Laden the US 'cut off the snakes head' in the words of some analysts. This was done by taking away a large fundraiser with huge connections,this is a good strategy. The problem is that with Al Qaeda financially restrained its donors will have looked elsewhere,maybe ISIS? I dont know,but the common enemy is still there in the eyes of these people,the USA and the West in general.

As for benign dictators,i suspect this is why we got here in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×