Black people underrepresented as managers.

[Sugar Ape]

I noticed an Oliver Holt article on this in todays Mirror. He seems to do about 4 of these a year.

 

So, thoughts? Are English clubs inherently racist?

 

Paul Davis gets a reaction when he tells black players they should study for their coaching badges and try to become managers.

 

"The guys laugh in my face," he says.

 

It's not because they're rich or lazy or complacent or arrogant.

 

It's because they think it's futile. It's a waste of their time and a threat to their dignity. It's because their path is blocked.

 

Sometimes, they mention what happened to Davis himself. How he spent five years coaching the U13s and U15s at Arsenal before he quit in 2003 after his failure to progress.

 

Do you remember what Davis was like as an Arsenal player? Cultured, elegant, a clever passer of the ball. A thinking man's player.

 

He won the title twice under George Graham in 1989 and 1991. He's a bright bloke, too. Personable, articulate and smart. He could show players his medals, too.

 

Let's be honest: if Davis was white, one of our league clubs would have snapped him up as soon as his playing career had finished.

 

It never happened. And after he quit as a youth coach, he hasn't even bothered to put himself forward for management jobs. His confidence is shot.

 

"I don't want to put myself in a situation where people are embarrassing me," he says. "I am not confident about the hiring processes.

 

"Now, I see the same kind of fear in the eyes of more players who are coming through and want to be managers."

 

Davis, 49, works for the Professional Footballers' Association now, desperately trying to improve the chances of players from ethnic minorities finding a manager's job.

 

Because let's face it, the situation at the moment is embarrassing.

 

We have some room to boast about the progress we have made in tackling racism in football in this country.

 

But there are 92 managers of Premier League and Football League clubs and only two of them - Chris Powell at Charlton and Chris Hughton at Birmingham City -are black.

 

That means that 25% of our 4,500 professional players are from ethnic minorities and only 2% of our managers.

 

Davis wants to do something about it. So does the man who was sitting next to him at a hotel in London's Kensington yesterday morning.

 

Cyrus Mehri, an eminent lawyer who is one of the architects of the Rooney Rule in American Football's NFL, addressed representatives of the FA, the Premier League, the PFA and the League Managers' Association yesterday.

 

Many are now pressing for our clubs to be forced to adopt an English equivalent of the Rooney Rule.

 

Named after Dan Rooney, the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers, the rule, which was introduced in 2003, obliged NFL teams to interview at least one black candidate when a head coaching position became vacant.

 

The Rooney Rule transformed the league. There are four times more black head coaches now than there were in 2003.

 

And guess what, many of them have been outstandingly successful. In fact, in 2007 both the teams that reached the Super Bowl, the Indianapolis Colts and the Chicago Bears, were run by black coaches.

 

"There were some problems at first," Mehri said. "The Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones thought it was okay to interview the black candidate over the phone and all the white candidates face to face.

 

"If there is passive racism present somewhere, we have found it erodes during the interview process. Sometimes, people are surprised with the calibre of a man when they meet him face to face.

 

"What kind of message is English football sending with someone like Paul Davis? If he was white, he would be fast-tracked. If he is black, he will be marginalised.

 

"We are not saying clubs have to hire minority candidates. We are just saying 'give them a chance, maybe you don't know what you're missing'."

 

Why English football needs it's own version of NFL's 'Rooney rule' to really eradicate racism Oliver Holt column - Oliver Holt - MirrorFootball.co.uk

[Funkasy]

this again ?

[fowler9]

complete bollocks football is all about winning which is why some of the vermin in the game continue to be employed regardless of what they do, if chairmen are willing to employ the likes of El Hadji Diouf they are willing to employ black managers

[Scott_M]

Nonsense.

 

If people worked hard enough to do it and did it well, they'd get the recognition they deserve.

 

If they sit back and say 'Give me a coaching job now because I'm X player' they'll get fucked off, regardless of race.

 

Maybe Davis just wasn't a very good coach?

[brucespanner]

Stanley Tshosane is doing sterling work with Botswana, defiantly one to look at when Kenny gets bored of winning things.

[ChrisM]

John Barnes, Celtic blah blah blah

[Sugar Ape]

this again ?

 

Anyone ever told you that you're a negative, tedious bellend?

 

I'd imagine they have.

[Guest TK-421]

Hard to argue against Holt, imo. The numbers speak for themselves.

[piscinin]

I don't think racism per se is the problem. But there is no doubt that there is a measure of institutionalized inertia and if something as simple and light-touch as the Rooney rule can make a difference. Why not try it?

[Il Fenomeno]

Nonsense.

 

If people worked hard enough to do it and did it well, they'd get the recognition they deserve.

 

If they sit back and say 'Give me a coaching job now because I'm X player' they'll get fucked off, regardless of race.

 

Maybe Davis just wasn't a very good coach?

 

Agreed, what a joke that he expects a job managing in the football league after coaching under 15 kids. Didi Hamann, who is white, had to coach at Leicester and at MK Dons before being offered a job. And he only got a job in the conference. I suspect most of these people who fail to get jobs in managment are because they set their sights too high, and aren't willing to compromise and drop down a couple of divisions just to get a job and work theirselves up.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

You don't see enough Asian Dwarf managers for my liking, they're definitely being underrepresented.

[esoteric]

Talk of underrepresentation in footy revives fond memories of Cherie Lunghi.

[Johnny Cougar]

Yeah, Paul Ince didn't make it in the top flight as a manager due to racism, not because he's shit. At all.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

what about the ex fictional players ? Baptiste, Geordio, Race ? Is Roy a victim of his surname ?

[mlwilliams]

I'm sick to death of hearing about this. You have the MoBO awards, be happy.

[The Acolyte]

Nonsense.

 

If people worked hard enough to do it and did it well, they'd get the recognition they deserve.

 

If they sit back and say 'Give me a coaching job now because I'm X player' they'll get fucked off, regardless of race.

 

Maybe Davis just wasn't a very good coach?

 

Complete Horse shit.

How many players have got manager roles with big clubs and hadn't done a thing to be worthy of the position.

There's a world of difference between signing a black player to signing a black coach in the , don't be so ignorrant. I still remember the days when black players were assumed not to be able to play in the cold, a theory with fuck all basis, and that they "had a chip on their shoulder" (Souness himself said this, the tit), saying they had an attitude problem hence why managers shied away. The only managers still in the game when this attitude was around are Ferguson and Dalglish, both broke with their clubs convention at the time and signed black players, could this be a reason they are still around. People can point at John Barnes and his time at Celtic but even if he had won the league they'd have found a reason to get rid as his football ethos just didn't fit with theirs. I don't agree with making clubs interview candidates based on their ethnicty but something has to be done as its becoming embaressing and its only a matter of time before an established player decides to go into management, prehaps even player coach realsises the situation and decides, cause they can afford to, to get the lawyers involved and take either a club, PL or FA to court over it.

[The Acolyte]

Agreed, what a joke that he expects a job managing in the football league after coaching under 15 kids. Didi Hamann, who is white, had to coach at Leicester and at MK Dons before being offered a job. And he only got a job in the conference. I suspect most of these people who fail to get jobs in managment are because they set their sights too high, and aren't willing to compromise and drop down a couple of divisions just to get a job and work theirselves up.

 

I doubt that article details all the jobs Davis went for. It most probably included U-21 teams as well. He did start at Arsenal so why drop a league to progress if you started with them but I bet he did when he got desperate.

Edited September 7, 2011 by The Acolyte

[withnail71]

Its cos they is black innit.

Bollocks !

If you are good enough you will get the opportunity wther you are white, black, yellow, red or whatever.

[Iceman]

I think the scum should be forced to have Paul Ince as their next manager.

[Stu Monty]

The idea that if you're good enough you'll get the job is laughably naive. The idea that racism, which is still a majority passtime in this country, won't mean that ageing white men would place a glass ceiling on the selection of black managers is, frankly, stupid. Anyone want to bet that the likes of Dave Whelan haven't got the full Jim Davidson and Bernand Manning boxsets sat in their gaffs?

 

I don't particularly agree with positive selection, just solid anti-discrimination law, but it's hard to enforce.

[Hermes]

Under represented yes. But how many are qualified and applying for jobs? Without knowing the percentage who have full coaching qualifications and the percentage of job applicants "That means that 25% of our 4,500 professional players are from ethnic minorities and only 2% of our managers" is meaningless.

[Iceman]

.

[Whelan]

The idea that if you're good enough you'll get the job is laughably naive. The idea that racism, which is still a majority passtime in this country, won't mean that ageing white men would place a glass ceiling on the selection of black managers is, frankly, stupid. Anyone want to bet that the likes of Dave Whelan haven't got the full Jim Davidson and Bernand Manning boxsets sat in their gaffs?

 

I don't particularly agree with positive selection, just solid anti-discrimination law, but it's hard to enforce.

 

Agree with this, the lack of black managers is quite apparent. There are lots and lots of 'working' managers in the lower leagues who do a job for a couple of years, get sacked, get another job, do a job for a couple of years and get sacked. It is the same names, just different clubs.

 

None of them are black!

 

Or are we arguing that Peter Reid continues to be employed because he has such a good record at his previous job!

[Funkasy]

Anyone ever told you that you're a negative, tedious bellend?

 

I'd imagine they have.

 

We had this conversation half a year ago and i think its all still the same.

but feel free to bump this thread again in a half years time and feel like your standing up against racism when its pure bullshit that your posting.

[Hermes]

Or are we arguing that Peter Reid continues to be employed because he has such a good record at his previous job!

 

Managed Sunderland and Man City to their highest league position in decades. Not the best example to make your point.