Richard Keys is a cunt - Part 23... His views on Heysel.

[Stu Monty]

But it wasn't our fault for the deaths.

 

UEFA and the Belgian FA are responsible for what happened that night. I accept responsibility for our fans part in the rioting certainly, but accept no responsibility for the deaths. That stadium was in no fit state to hold any final, never mind the biggest in the European club game. The ticketing arrangements where worse than shambolic. The authorities knew that beforehand, and did nothing about it.

 

Our fans didn't set out to kill anyone that night. Our fans haven't set out to kill anyone in Europe before or since. The tragedy was the result of a crumbling edifice unable to handle the sheer mass of people on it at the time. Since then, other English clubs' fans have run amok at home and abroad. Crowd trouble remains a serious problem in Italy, Juve fans have been well involved down the years. Riots sporadically continue at football stadiums all over the world, but people rarely if ever lose their lives. Stadiums can withstand huge forces in such situations. Heysel couldn't. That's why what happened, happened.

 

Yes, that's what manslaughter is, when you don't set out to kill someone but your actions lead to deaths. Whether that be the people trying to escape you being crushed or simply someone being hit by some masonry you've chucked. When you hear about one-punch deaths you know that the person punching is more than likely not trying to kill someone, but you are still responsible for that death.

[Eljeficito]

As has already been said, a minority of twats on both sides caused this disaster and i find myself, someone who wasn't even born at the time, having to feel apologetic. By all accounts, Liverpool fans could have easily have lost their lives that day, but luck / fate had it a different way. However, when i see banners made by their scum support such as the one below, i really just think fuck Juventus. The death of the 39 is definately regrettable, but fuck Juve.

 

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/heysel.jpg

[Marcas]

Souness was in the BBC studio covering the game on the night of Heysel, he also referred to Rome the year before when discussing the fighting with Jimmy Hill. I suspect that is how Keys has picked up on it, through working with Souness.

 

 

Ok I could be wrong on this, and no doubt someone will correct me, but didn't Brian Reade refer to the connection between Rome/Hysel in the excellent 43 Years With The Same Bird??

[Trumo]

Ok I could be wrong on this, and no doubt someone will correct me, but didn't Brian Reade refer to the connection between Rome/Hysel in the excellent 43 Years With The Same Bird??

 

It's been referred to by several others besides Reade. No doubt some of the Liverpool fans (and more than a few who claimed to be fans) went to Brussels looking to fight a few Italians after what happened in Rome in 1984. If Keys had worded it as such (and left it there) I don't think it would really be an issue.

 

However, his insinuation that the deaths of 39 Italian fans was "payback" for events in Rome is why the whole thing is despicable on his part. He does not miss an opportunity to stick the knife in, so in that respect he really is no better than a Roma hooligan.

[WaltonRed]

He's been dying to put the boot in for years the little rat

[Beno]

Anyone who doesn't think that Rome wasn't a factor in Brussels is deluding themselves. Remember this was 1985 and the world and LFC and our fans were completely different then.The deaths in the stadium might still have occured because the whole thing was a shambles, but Rome was definately on the minds of some Reds who charged at the Juve fans when it all kicked off.

Also wasn't Keys working for Radio Merseyside/City at the time of Heysel, so he might know a bit more than people think.

he's still a grade A twat though.

[jmckenna]

I was at Heysel as was a friend , who was later arrested and convicted.

As far as i am concerned Rome was not a factor when rocks and stones started to hit me.

Heysel was an awful event that puts a blot on our great name .

But what really gets to me is that the stadium and organizers got totally away with it ( apart from a ban of not holding a major tournament there for 10 years).

Anyway as i said Rome was not even on my mind when i went to that match.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I was at Heysel as was a friend , who was later arrested and convicted.

As far as i am concerned Rome was not a factor when rocks and stones started to hit me.

Heysel was an awful event that puts a blot on our great name .

But what really gets to me is that the stadium and organizers got totally away with it ( apart from a ban of not holding a major tournament there for 10 years).

Anyway as i said Rome was not even on my mind when i went to that match.

 

And we have had to deal with his and possibly your actions ever since.

 

CHEERS FOR THAT.

[Acid]

Has anyone read 'Here we go gathering cups in may'? If you have it handy, mine is at my dads right now, can you write out the last few lines of the 1984 final chapter?

 

I'm not pointing fingers. I wasn't born when Hillsborough happened, let alone Heysel, but if someone has put it into print, and in a pretty popular book, I'm sure the connection between the two finals is not just in Richard Keyes' head.

[jmckenna]

And we have had to deal with his and possibly your actions ever since.

 

CHEERS FOR THAT.

 

Jesus! Where you there? Did you even see it unfold live on T.V.?

No! Thought not.

For your information i was more concerned that night on protecting my 14 year old nephew than getting involved in violence.

The ignorance and lies surrounding that night still affect me.

The deaths that night were horrible , and the people responsible should be punished. Trouble was not enough were (by that i mean the stadium holders etc. because you wouldn't know would you)

[Guest ShoePiss]

Jesus! Where you there? Did you even see it unfold live on T.V.?

No! Thought not.

For your information i was more concerned that night on protecting my 14 year old nephew than getting involved in violence.

The ignorance and lies surrounding that night still affect me.

The deaths that night were horrible , and the people responsible should be punished. Trouble was not enough were (by that i mean the stadium holders etc. because you wouldn't know would you)

 

I remember it like yesterday, I watched it on the telly. I do actually understand the numerous contributing factors to what happened that night.

 

My point all along has been this deflection of responsibility.

 

Every first hand account I've listened to in person or read has been about minimizing responsibility.

 

"They started it"

"The stadium, UEFA and the local Police were not up to the job"

"We got hammered in Rome and weren't going to let it happen again"

"A lot weren't even Liverpool fans"

 

The excuses and minimizing has gone on for too long. I saw Liverpool fans charging Juventus fans, because of the actions of those fans, we all take a share of the shame and the blame. I'm tired of it.

 

I remember that only around 20 or so were arrested on manslaughter charges and only 14 were convicted and most of those only had suspended sentences.

 

There were a hell of a lot more people involved than 20, it was easily over 100 lads running and throwing shit that day. Fair enough you had nothing to do with the violence, you are not responsible at all. I'll take your word for it and apologise sincerely for thinking you might have blood on your hands.

 

There are fans amongst us who will never admit to what they did that day. Cowards.

[jmckenna]

I remember it like yesterday, I watched it on the telly. I do actually understand the numerous contributing factors to what happened that night.

 

My point all along has been this deflection of responsibility.

 

Every first hand account I've listened to in person or read has been about minimizing responsibility.

 

"They started it"

"The stadium, UEFA and the local Police were not up to the job"

"We got hammered in Rome and weren't going to let it happen again"

"A lot weren't even Liverpool fans"

 

The excuses and minimizing has gone on for too long. I saw Liverpool fans charging Juventus fans, because of the actions of those fans, we all take a share of the shame and the blame. I'm tired of it.

 

I remember that only around 20 or so were arrested on manslaughter charges and only 14 were convicted and most of those only had suspended sentences.

 

There were a hell of a lot more people involved than 20, it was easily over 100 lads running and throwing shit that day. Fair enough you had nothing to do with the violence, you are not responsible at all. I'll take your word for it and apologise sincerely for thinking you might have blood on your hands.

 

There are fans amongst us who will never admit to what they did that day. Cowards.

 

Thankyou.

I cant post links to other sites apparently but if you .

w~w.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/heysel.shtm

 

And King Kennys view.

w#w.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/dalglish-heysel.shtm

 

A quote from this.

"Peter Robinson (Liverpool Chairman) went over before the final to see the stadium. He was concerned about many things to do with Heysel Stadium, which was clearly unsuited to holding two sets of supporters who were bound to be emotionally charged for such a big game. Peter told the Belgium authorities and UEFA that he was very apprehensive about ticket allocation.

 

Peter was also worried that they had kept a section of the ground for the use of Belgian people. He suggested that only Liverpool and Juventus should receive tickets. Allowing a third party access to tickets would inevitably mean a dangerous mixed area, with English and Italian supporters having got tickets off any Belgian wanting to make a few bob for himself. It was a very frustrating situation. Liverpool seemed to be the only ones fearful about what could happen.

 

Liverpool made it public that they were concerned about the condition of the stadium, but UEFA said they must continue, so the ill-fated final went ahead and unfortunately everybody knows the consequences. Liverpool were so concerned that they put up information booths outside the ground in an attempt to keep our fans out of the unsegregated area. Liverpool did that, not UEFA. It angers me that Liverpool did all the warning, Liverpool made every effort to prevent trouble and when the worst happened Liverpool received all the blame.

 

There was no hint of trouble when we entered Heysel. As normal, we walked out on to the pitch, still wearing our civvies, about an hour and half before kick-off. We strolled behind one of the goals. The terrace there was split in two, but the only thing dividing the sections was a flimsy barrier of what looked like chicken wire. The half supposedly kept for Belgians keen to see a final on their doorstep was where the ticket allocation had gone terribly wrong. Most of the people in that neutral Belgian section were Juventus fans. The other section behind the goal contained our people. As we walked behind the goal, one of the Liverpool fans threw us a ball. The players just kicked it around and occasionally volleyed it back into the crowd. The Liverpool fans kicked it back and so it went on. Everything was amicable. There was no indication of any bother, but seemingly while all this was happening, Juventus fans were throwing stones at the Liverpool fans. Remembering the dreadful treatment they had encountered in Rome, our supporters inevitably acted angrily.

 

I can't condone the action of some Liverpool fans but it is difficult not to react when the opposing supporters are throwing missiles at you. The fact that fatalities might result wouldn't have occurred to the Liverpool fans when they ran across. If you have been pelted with stones the year before, and suffered badly, you are not going to accept it again. That's how the trouble started. UEFA must shoulder much of the blame.

 

The choice of Heysel was so obviously wrong. The Belgians had no idea how to stage a match of this magnitude. There wasn't a great deal of security; thousands of people got into the ground with the stub still on their ticket. The worst mistake the Belgians and UEFA made was in allocating tickets to people not from the two clubs involved. That was a recipe for disaster. Of course it's sad when two sets of people cannot go and enjoy a game, cannot behave themselves, but you've got to be realistic. You've got to recognise the potential for trouble and do everything in your power to prevent any problems occurring. UEFA didn't do that."

 

Again i am not condoning or defending the actions that night.

I just feel the authorities should have been punished.

[Pidge]

A lot of good posts in here. Heysel is a point of morbid fascination for me, not because I obsess over such tragedies, but because I have found myself having to answer about it. It is a black mark on the club, and it should be remembered as such (particularly by us, the fans). Still, the common representation never sees beyond the superficial details of the day.

 

I can understand people bemoaning the deflective attitudes of some, but this isn't like sticking up for Carra because he left a boot in, or saying even casting mitigating factors over Gerrard's manc-slapping. There was, from the very start, blank refusal to face up to the complexity of the situation from all those in positions of responsibility (as in UEFA).

 

Officially the entire blame for the incident was laid on the fans of Liverpool FC. On 30 May official UEFA observer Gunter Schneider said "Only the English fans were responsible. Of that there is no doubt."

 

Straight from Wiki, the first place young Mancs and Bitters (and even LFC fans seeking clarification) visit.

 

I have had dozens of people raise it - unprovoked - in conversation and I'd say one point has probably silenced half of them. The charge happened in a neutral stand and over 30 of the dead were Juventus fans. If that simple fact does not prove to them that the organisation of the event lacked the necessary diligence, then the person you are talking to is not worth the effort.

 

UEFA (with the cunt in a blue dress's help) completely abandoned any responsibility. It's still an utter disgrace and shows a complete lack of respect for the fans of both sides and, most of all, the dead.

 

I can't blame Keyes for his point, as it bears some validity, but the way he phrased it and brought it in out of context is typical of how much of a prick he is. Tool. It's at a Littlejohn level of courtingempty controversy. Bigger cunts than Keyes have made a career out of spouting such things (we should know, we made the biggest cunt of all into a personality, the only man I would happily stab on sight), maybe his job is so insecure it's the only way he can guarantee that, if all goes to shit... at least the nazi Mail will give him a job. Cunt.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I understand how the various circumstances and failings led to the deaths. There's no doubt in my mind that UEFA have a huge responsibility in what happened, they also have blood on their hands.

 

Wasn't really what I was on about though.

[Fugitive]

Keyes only made that comment for one reason alone... to stir up shit. The way he has worded that will just reinforce the views of Mancs and Bitters and the 'Murderers' chant will just go on and on.

 

He is an absolute twat.

[jmckenna]

A lot of good posts in here. Heysel is a point of morbid fascination for me, not because I obsess over such tragedies, but because I have found myself having to answer about it. It is a black mark on the club, and it should be remembered as such (particularly by us, the fans). Still, the common representation never sees beyond the superficial details of the day.

 

I can understand people bemoaning the deflective attitudes of some, but this isn't like sticking up for Carra because he left a boot in, or saying even casting mitigating factors over Gerrard's manc-slapping. There was, from the very start, blank refusal to face up to the complexity of the situation from all those in positions of responsibility (as in UEFA).

 

Officially the entire blame for the incident was laid on the fans of Liverpool FC. On 30 May official UEFA observer Gunter Schneider said "Only the English fans were responsible. Of that there is no doubt."

 

Straight from Wiki, the first place young Mancs and Bitters (and even LFC fans seeking clarification) visit.

 

I have had dozens of people raise it - unprovoked - in conversation and I'd say one point has probably silenced half of them. The charge happened in a neutral stand and over 30 of the dead were Juventus fans. If that simple fact does not prove to them that the organisation of the event lacked the necessary diligence, then the person you are talking to is not worth the effort.

 

UEFA (with the cunt in a blue dress's help) completely abandoned any responsibility. It's still an utter disgrace and shows a complete lack of respect for the fans of both sides and, most of all, the dead.

 

I can't blame Keyes for his point, as it bears some validity, but the way he phrased it and brought it in out of context is typical of how much of a prick he is. Tool. It's at a Littlejohn level of courtingempty controversy. Bigger cunts than Keyes have made a career out of spouting such things (we should know, we made the biggest cunt of all into a personality, the only man I would happily stab on sight), maybe his job is so insecure it's the only way he can guarantee that, if all goes to shit... at least the nazi Mail will give him a job. Cunt.

 

Well said.

[SammyAftershave]

I'd like to hear context before & exactly what he said before I jump to conclusions.

That said the patience Liverpool fans had with Italians after Rome was virtually non existent. It's just a pity that the poor people who died where entirely innocent, and not the fucking drughi shitbags that instigated it.

 

Well said. Slight disagreement. I would, if I might, replace the word 'drughi' with 'shithouse cowardly bastards'.

[jmckenna]

Well said. Slight disagreement. I would, if I might, replace the word 'drughi' with 'shithouse cowardly bastards'.

 

Who are they exactly?

[Pidge]

I understand how the various circumstances and failings led to the deaths. There's no doubt in my mind that UEFA have a huge responsibility in what happened, they also have blood on their hands.

 

Wasn't really what I was on about though.

 

Fair enough, I wasn't directly responding to you, it was more of a general point.

[Trumo]

Not to get sidetracked, but they actually took the name "drughi" from the droogs in A Clockwork Orange. They saw themselves in the same way, completely missing the point.

[Acid]

Alright then, as I don't have my copy, this is just the rough jist of what is written in Here we go gathering cups in May. The book, is 7 fans accounts of each of the 7 european cup finals we've been in, and at the end of the 1984 chapter, the author gets a phone call from his mate once he gets home, and the conversation goes like:

 

Mate: Heard there was a bit of trouble with the Roma fans?

Author: Yea, the next time we get an Italian team on neutral soil, there'll be murder.

 

Peter Hooton, singer in 'The Farm' wrote that chapter.

[jmckenna]

Alright then, as I don't have my copy, this is just the rough jist of what is written in Here we go gathering cups in May. The book, is 7 fans accounts of each of the 7 european cup finals we've been in, and at the end of the 1984 chapter, the author gets a phone call from his mate once he gets home, and the conversation goes like:

 

Mate: Heard there was a bit of trouble with the Roma fans?

Author: Yea, the next time we get an Italian team on neutral soil, there'll be murder.

 

Peter Hooton, singer in 'The Farm' wrote that chapter.

 

Saying there will be murder is miles away from staying we will start murder.

[jmckenna]

As you all might understand this subject is a major concern of mine.

But i have just started posting here, and as a 55 year old and long life fan i have more to contribute to the forum than this.

Don't let my conviction of this influence your overall opinion of me.

[Acid]

Saying there will be murder is miles away from staying we will start murder.

 

I understand that, but you can understand how people who don't want to get the full picture, just someone to blame, will use that as liverpool fans that day seeking revenge.

[SammyAftershave]

As you all might understand this subject is a major concern of mine.

But i have just started posting here, and as a 55 year old and long life fan i have more to contribute to the forum than this.

Don't let my conviction of this influence your overall opinion of me.

 

Fair enough jmckenna, I was present at Rome, dodged being stabbed by driveby shithouse bastards on mopeds while enjoying a beer with very pleasant opposing supporters from Turin, at the actual game (I got hit on the neck with bottle of piss that was raining down from above), I was present at Heysel the next year and seen the awful events unfold before me. Personally I had no wish to exact revenge but I do understand why Some other people might have, I would refer you, respectfully, to the play written by The Massive Red John Dillon 'Wearing Colours' that was performed by Vauxy Theatre. Deep, informative and very emotional and hits the nail right on the head.Heysel was an aberration which ever way you look at it but at least this may give you some insight into the circumstances that brought it about. (if you can put your hands on it, may be on YouTube) Now fuck off and deal with my Neg!