Rafa to Juve?

[JMARKH]

Did you every actually see Valencia play?

 

I did, they were ruthless under Benitez and that it is why it is so disappointing to see the Houllier like tactics he is reverting to this season.

[piscinin]

Did you every actually see Valencia play?

 

Yes. Do you actually have a point to make here?

[Rex Banner]

Isn't Rafa a bit old for Juve surely he'd go to an adult prison.

ha ha haaaaaa.

[JohnnyH]

Yes. Do you actually have a point to make here?

 

His point is that the version you give of the football Rafa played at Valencia compared to the actual football played bears no resemblance in reality. Rafa played a very quick pass and move style that tore teams apart, including us. Gerrard and Owen say it was the best football ever player against them. It was a joy to watch and phenomenally difficult to defend against as they moved the ball around with such speed that teams not as technically gifted as them and not used to playing against that type of speed of thought and passing couldn’t handle it.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Yes. Do you actually have a point to make here?

 

Hardly "anti-football" now, was it?

[Thants]

You would think Rafa would have had enough of working for the old lady under Parry.

[The Bugged Out]

To be honest, who cares anymore how valencia played.

 

Rafa took over a fantastic squad who knew how to play football.

 

At Liverpool Rafa has had 5 and half years to develop a squad that could emulate what he had at valencia or at least develop a style of play influenced by them. Lets cut to the chase, the football is a million miles away from that at liverpool, most of this season it has been fucking dire.

 

it has nothing to do with the backing the manager has had or the lack of it, it is the philosophy of the manager on how we should play.

[Juan Galonso]

We haven't got any money and didnt Chamakh choose Arsenal over us?, so how is that him not getting the money?, and that Serbian chap has just signed so why allow the manager to bring in his own player only to have the intention of ditching him in the summer?

 

Two words mate. Djibril Cisse. Hopefully the same outcome as well.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Juan Galonso

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

To be honest, who cares anymore how valencia played.

 

Rafa took over a fantastic squad who knew how to play football.

 

At Liverpool Rafa has had 5 and half years to develop a squad that could emulate what he had at valencia or at least develop a style of play influenced by them. Lets cut to the chase, the football is a million miles away from that at liverpool, most of this season it has been fucking dire.

 

it has nothing to do with the backing the manager has had or the lack of it, it is the philosophy of the manager on how we should play.

 

And yet couldn't win anything

 

Just like the Liverpool side he inherited in 2005

 

They (not he, they) proved last year they can really play football, given the right conditions.

 

It's one thing knowing what is wrong, and how it needs fixing, it's quite another having the tools to carry out the job.

[Juan Galonso]

Hardly "anti-football" now, was it?

 

Hehe. Andy to be honest I couldn't care less how Rafa's Valencia teams played. It is his Liverpool team with his own players and it is ''anti-football''. Trying to stalk off with a point at Arsenal is one thing but doing the same v Wolves recently is quite another.

 

I feel like I have gotten in a tardis and gone back to 2003 watching us. Hey, if you think the way we are playing is acceptable then good luck to you.

[goatboy59]

Unless my memory has more holes than I thought, I remember Valencia totally outplaying us first half and then shutting it down second. That pragmatic 'just enough' streak has always been there, apart from the last two months of 08/09.

 

I've pretty much lost count of the number of first halves I've watched this season where I've thought it was the worst 45 minutes I've seen.

 

What happened to that crisp passing philosophy, and why don't we ever 'come out of the traps' like that team did? You know within the first 10 minutes what kind of performance it's going to be.

 

In fact the last four months we've known what kind of performance it'll be; grim, dogged, full of effort sometimes but lacking in skill control and pace.

 

Net spend fanatics seem to believe that can only be bought and not coached.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Hehe. Andy to be honest I couldn't care less how Rafa's Valencia teams played. It is his Liverpool team with his own players and it is ''anti-football''. Trying to stalk off with a point at Arsenal is one thing but doing the same v Wolves recently is quite another.

 

I feel like I have gotten in a tardis and gone back to 2003 watching us. Hey, if you think the way we are playing is acceptable then good luck to you.

 

You might not John, but it was a reply to someone who stated, quite incorrectly, that Rafa's Valencia was primarily based on "anti-football" and were ugly to watch, as if that has been a hallmark of his management throughout his career.

 

I've not said that we should be happy with the football currently being played, nor do I think the players or the manager are, but needs must at the moment, sadly.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Unless my memory has more holes than I thought, I remember Valencia totally outplaying us first half and then shutting it down second. That pragmatic 'just enough' streak has always been there, apart from the last two months of 08/09.

 

I've pretty much lost count of the number of first halves I've watched this season where I've thought it was the worst 45 minutes I've seen.

 

What happened to that crisp passing philosophy, and why don't we ever 'come out of the traps' like that team did? You know within the first 10 minutes what kind of performance it's going to be.

 

In fact the last four months we've known what kind of performance it'll be; grim, dogged, full of effort sometimes but lacking in skill control and pace.

 

Net spend fanatics seem to believe that can only be bought and not coached.

 

 

You really don't need to resort to sticking a label on people Steve.

 

Your not that stupid.

[goatboy59]

I probably am!

 

If I don't read constant shite about what gets spent and how it affects the way we pass, run, control and fight - clue; it doesn't - then I can't jump to conclusions can I?

[Juan Galonso]

You might not John, but it was a reply to someone who stated, quite incorrectly, that Rafa's Valencia was primarily based on "anti-football" and were ugly to watch, as if that has been a hallmark of his management throughout his career.

 

I've not said that we should be happy with the football currently being played, nor do I think the players or the manager are, but needs must at the moment, sadly.

 

Sorry Andy I made the same comment about us and ''anti-football'' after the Arsenal game the other night which is why I thought it was directed at me.

 

Why should it be needs must though Andy? Do we really ''need'' to go to Wolves and play exactly how we did at Arsenal on Wednesday night?

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

I probably am!

 

If I don't read constant shite about what gets spent and how it affects the way we pass, run, control and fight - clue; it doesn't - then I can't jump to conclusions can I?

 

But to dismiss is as a factor at all and disregard anyone's opinion as such by doing so?

 

Not having a pop, it's because I actually enjoy and take the time to read your stuff.

[goatboy59]

"You're not that stupid" is a pop.

 

It's a factor, but you know as well as I do that there are Liverpool fans who cannot shut the fuck up about money and how it can explain away everything that is happening.

 

I'm as bored as you are with the "all roads lead to the manager" one-dimensional bollocks, but the shields of protection put up in his defence can be equally neurotic and stupid.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

"You're not that stupid" is a pop.

 

It's a factor, but you know as well as I do that there are Liverpool fans who cannot shut the fuck up about money and how it can explain away everything that is happening.

 

I'm as bored as you are with the "all roads lead to the manager" one-dimensional bollocks, but the shields of protection put up in his defence can be equally neurotic and stupid.

 

It was meant to be taken as a backhanded compliment

 

In regards to "shields of protection put up in his defence can be equally neurotic and stupid", do you really think we would have one without the other, it's like some fucking stupid war of attrition with arguments getting more and more polarised and ridiculous as time goes on.

 

For every person who cannot "shut the fuck up" about how money is everything, you would find another who cannot "shut the fuck up" about how Rafa eats babies, is a Hicks "yes man", deserves no credit for his successes (Houllier's team in 05, Torres was a cast iron certainty to become a world beater, etc) and how he only ever looks after number one with scant regard for the club and it's supporters

 

You know yourself that both sides (How ridiculous does that even sound) do themselves and their argument no favours by doing the forum equivalent of sticking their fingers in their collective ears and screaming like a 3 year olds .

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Two words mate. Djibril Cisse. Hopefully the same outcome as well.

 

I did a little sick in my mouth then.

 

On the second part, I'll hang fire before I agree or disagree with the outcome.

[Juan Galonso]

I did a little sick in my mouth then.

 

On the second part, I'll hang fire before I agree or disagree with the outcome.

 

Thinking of Cisse took me back to the AGM in 2006 when they were asking if anybody had any questions to which some wag who was no more than 17-18 got up and said ''Knowing Houllier was going to be gone at the end of the season who's bright spark idea was it to pay 14m for Djibril Cisse'' which brought the room in to laughter all around, even Rafa smirked as well but Parry who was sat next to him was not a happy chap to say the least and had a face like thunder. Funny as fuck it was.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Thinking of Cisse took me back to the AGM in 2006 when they were asking if anybody had any questions to which some wag who was no more than 17-18 got up and said ''Knowing Houllier was going to be gone at the end of the season who's bright spark idea was it to pay 14m for Djibril Cisse'' which brought the room in to laughter all around, even Rafa smirked as well but Parry who was sat next to him was not a happy chap to say the least and had a face like thunder. Funny as fuck it was.

 

I would loved to have been there to see that. Parry always looked fucked off or unhappy though to be fair. I hope this fella doesn't turn out like Cisse, for everybody's sake.

 

It makes me think surely they wouldn't make the same mistake twice, but then I remember this is our board we are talking about and anything on a high level of stupidity is possible.

[Brownie]

Valencia, under Rafa, were brilliant to watch. An absolute beast of a team.

 

Our team right now, bears absolutely no resemblance to it.

[Dicko]

I would loved to have been there to see that. Parry always looked fucked off or unhappy though to be fair. I hope this fella doesn't turn out like Cisse, for everybody's sake.

 

It makes me think surely they wouldn't make the same mistake twice, but then I remember this is our board we are talking about and anything on a high level of stupidity is possible.

 

He said that the transfer was done in 2003 that's why we signed him. I can't think of one example more apt as to the stupidity of Moores & Parry.

[Zippy]

From what I remember Rafa's Valencia team were like us capable of brilliance and anti football. I don't think the games against us were particulary representative of the style of football his team played week in week out just as our performances against Real and United last year don't represent how we play week out.

 

If I recall correctly one of his title winning sides finished a season with a top scorer with seven goals which to me suggests to me a team that wasn't particularly offensive (his first league winning side), also one of his title winning teams had about 11 or 12 draws which also suggests that it may have been quite defensive particularly by Spanish standards.

 

Rafa is one of the best managers in the world but for me on the whole he is a bit too cautious (the best example of this for me was when we played agianst ten men Arsenal last year and he was happy to take the draw) and I believe that was most evident last year when we had the chance to go for the throat in the league and didn't take it. I often wonder what would have happened if we had chose to attack (like we did during our great spell towards the end of last year) during the spell where we were playing negative football and getting draw after draw.

[Unrighteous]

Valencia, under Rafa, were brilliant to watch. An absolute beast of a team.

 

Our team right now, bears absolutely no resemblance to it.

 

Valencia shows what happens when Rafa does not control transfers.

 

Liverpool shows what happens when Rafa does control transfers.

 

Jammy Valencians!!