Dirk Kuyt v Ricardo Quaresma

[Paul]

Dog of war is used as an insult though Paul. He's spoken about in a derogatory way. It shouldn't happen to any player/manager who clearly cares about the club as much as he does.

 

I don't want to go down the road of singling people out as it will turn into a slanging match. I'm not saying it's widespread and I've only responded directly to posters a couple of times about it - Glen C and Xabi D are two that immediately I can recall I've said something to.

In that case I don't think the views of two individual forumites are relevant to the debate then. I'll pick my point up with Stu, but I got the sense that he was critical of people like Rashid simply because they don't rate Dirk. If I'm wrong then he'll tell me and I'll apologise for the misunderstanding. However a lot of the stuff thrown at Rashid is insulting to me because I share quite a number of his views.

[StevieH]

Has Quaresma sealed his big money move to a big club yet?

[theghost]

My favorite players at the club is a defensive midfielder and a centre back. Everyone appreciates hard work and team spirit, but we have that in abundance - what people want is a little bit of magic in key areas up front.

 

I'd prefer our strikers to attack rather than be known for their defensive work, much like I'd prefer our centre backs to defend first.

 

Then why do you pick skrtel and agger as our central defensive pairing?

[hamstrung]

 

I'd prefer our strikers to attack rather than be known for their defensive work, much like I'd prefer our centre backs to defend first.

 

Yet, for some reason you seem not to appreciate Carra.

 

Go figure.

[Stu Monty]

Stu, what gives you the right to denigrate someone else's support of the club simply because they favour different attributes in a player to you? Who has actually said anything disrespectful about Dirk? Who has slagged him off? Maybe I've missed it as I never read everything on here any more and I haven't even read this whole thread. However, all I've seen are honest appraisals of the man's relative talents.

 

I have never seen anything in Dirk to make me think that he is talented enough to be a first choice forward for this club, either before or since the tragic loss of his dad. I like him, respect him and have only warm regards for him as a man, but I'd drop him like a stone for a modern day John Barnes and I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep in doing so. In my opinion, his signing has been a costly mistake.

 

 

Thier comments and behaviour give me the right to denigrate their support, nothing to do with their favouring different attributes. There are people who support their own view on a player before they'll support that player, they want them to fail and won't recognise any good in them. The good is ignored and the bad is accentuated. He's constantly being disrespected; if it was a fair appraisal of his ability it would be fine but it has all the hallmarks of a smear campaign in that facts are distorted and myths just trotted out to keep the ball rolling.

 

You have every right to think his signing is a costly mistake but I don't see how you can justify the statement. I never get into the idea of one man winning a game but Dirk's goals propelled us through the final stages of the Champions League this year; that alone means he's made a massive contribution to an income that is going some way towards his £10m cost. He scored one in three in his first season too, a very respectable total.

[Kevin D]

Stu, you think one in three for one of the top sides in the world as their number one striker is "very respectable"?

[James Dean]

Stu, you think one in three for one of the top sides in the world as their number one striker is "very respectable"?

 

When you take into consideration the other things he does for the team, I'd say 1 out of 3 is respectable. If he was a lazy cunt who contributed nothing but those goals I'd agree that a figure like that was too low.

[Stu Monty]

Stu, you think one in three for one of the top sides in the world as their number one striker is "very respectable"?

 

He and Bellamy were sharing the load that season, so I don't see him as the number one striker in the way Torres obviously is now. Even if he was I think one in three in your first season in a new league is very respectable, yes. If the burden of goals was still placed on him in his second season then I'd expect him to be nudging nearer to one on in two (but he's never been a frontman as such, we were never set up to provide chances for a striker in the traditional sense of him being a focal point).

 

If you're just there for goals then you'll have to justify it by producing them; if you're there to do more than just score goals then you'll be given a bit more flexibilty. Rooney has scored one in three throughout his career but, in a different way, he is there for more than his goals.

[Redexile]

Everything? I take it you never saw Dalglish, Barnes or Fowler play in their prime then, mate. I certainly admire and respect Dirk's effort, integrity and honesty but there's no way he represents everything I love about football. How can you love football and not love the unpredictabilty, outrageous skill and wonderful vision of the geniuses who played the game?

 

Don't get me wrong, I admire the mental attributes just as much and great characters are often my favourite players (Carra being a prime example). However, to say that Dirk Kuyt is everything you love about football is simply bewildering to me. It's like we're talking about entirely different sports. I mean, it's fine that you hold such an opinion, but it's a million miles away from mine.

 

As far as this poll goes, I have no opinion on Quaresma as I've only seen him play about twice. However, I'd sell Dirk in second to accommodate an outrageous talent. Like almost everything on here, this debate has become polarised with people becoming entrenched in their views and moving to the extremes of the argument in order to "win" it. Talent and application/character are not mutually exclusive concepts. My all-time Liverpool top three, as cited above, epitomise that point perfectly.

 

 

The thing is though the poll was for Dirk versus Q and had it been Dirk versus and outrageous talent then the outcome and vote very possibly would have ben different.

[stringvest]

Everything? I take it you never saw Dalglish, Barnes or Fowler play in their prime then, mate. I certainly admire and respect Dirk's effort, integrity and honesty but there's no way he represents everything I love about football. How can you love football and not love the unpredictabilty, outrageous skill and wonderful vision of the geniuses who played the game?

 

Don't get me wrong, I admire the mental attributes just as much and great characters are often my favourite players (Carra being a prime example). However, to say that Dirk Kuyt is everything you love about football is simply bewildering to me. It's like we're talking about entirely different sports. I mean, it's fine that you hold such an opinion, but it's a million miles away from mine.

 

As far as this poll goes, I have no opinion on Quaresma as I've only seen him play about twice. However, I'd sell Dirk in second to accommodate an outrageous talent. Like almost everything on here, this debate has become polarised with people becoming entrenched in their views and moving to the extremes of the argument in order to "win" it. Talent and application/character are not mutually exclusive concepts. My all-time Liverpool top three, as cited above, epitomise that point perfectly.

 

bullseye.

[stringvest]

Thier comments and behaviour give me the right to denigrate their support, nothing to do with their favouring different attributes. There are people who support their own view on a player before they'll support that player, they want them to fail and won't recognise any good in them. The good is ignored and the bad is accentuated. He's constantly being disrespected; if it was a fair appraisal of his ability it would be fine but it has all the hallmarks of a smear campaign in that facts are distorted and myths just trotted out to keep the ball rolling.

 

You have every right to think his signing is a costly mistake but I don't see how you can justify the statement. I never get into the idea of one man winning a game but Dirk's goals propelled us through the final stages of the Champions League this year; that alone means he's made a massive contribution to an income that is going some way towards his £10m cost. He scored one in three in his first season too, a very respectable total.

 

Outrageous. If you can name one person on here that would prefer to see a player fail in a Liverpool shirt, then I would be amazed. You're massively oversensitive and defensive when it comes to all things Kuyt. My views on this are very similar to Paul's - we all recognise Kuyt's attributes, because they're obvious to anyone with even half a brain. but in some people's opinions, what he brings to the team isn't enough to warrant a place in the side.

 

Some people ignore every bit of possession lost due to misplaced pass, every poor touch allowing the ball to go out, every stagnation of an attacking position, every horrible miss and accentuate every pass completed, every goal scored etc. The bad is ignored, and the good is accentuated. While I admit that is a laudable approach to living your life generally, it doesn't help you win stuff when selecting your football team. I think Kuyt has done some good things for the club, but frankly I think the praise he gets on here is massively disproportionate to his contribution overall.

[Stu Monty]

Outrageous. If you can name one person on here that would prefer to see a player fail in a Liverpool shirt, then I would be amazed. You're massively oversensitive and defensive when it comes to all things Kuyt. My views on this are very similar to Paul's - we all recognise Kuyt's attributes, because they're obvious to anyone with even half a brain. but in some people's opinions, what he brings to the team isn't enough to warrant a place in the side.

 

Some people ignore every bit of possession lost due to misplaced pass, every poor touch allowing the ball to go out, every stagnation of an attacking position, every horrible miss and accentuate every pass completed, every goal scored etc. The bad is ignored, and the good is accentuated. While I admit that is a laudable approach to living your life generally, it doesn't help you win stuff when selecting your football team. I think Kuyt has done some good things for the club, but frankly I think the praise he gets on here is massively disproportionate to his contribution overall.

 

Amazed?

 

AMAZED!?!?

 

They're here, believe me.

[Walton Park]

Kuyt has a very poor touch,lack pace and does my head in sometimes but he fits the system the team are playing and his workrate is unbelievable. I know you need a lot more than that but there is a player like that in every successful team. I for one would be made up if we bought someone who was genuinly world class. This does not include Quaresma coz he wastes a lot of possession in my opinion. We could use both Kuyt and the other player in different games/circumstances. You cannot sell Kuyt. He doesnt deserve to be sold.

[stringvest]

If Kuyt is in the team, I want him to do well. It's about the team. And that's why I get frustrated with him when he fucks up. He does it too often. More quality = more chance of challenging for the league.

[Moschops II]

In that case I don't think the views of two individual forumites are relevant to the debate then. I'll pick my point up with Stu, but I got the sense that he was critical of people like Rashid simply because they don't rate Dirk. If I'm wrong then he'll tell me and I'll apologise for the misunderstanding. However a lot of the stuff thrown at Rashid is insulting to me because I share quite a number of his views.

 

The ones about Harry Kewell and Jose Mourinho? Or the ones about black goalkeepers and African players?

[zico]

For all his tireless running and effort, Kuyt as a right winger does not compare to Quaresma in the talent department...

 

I honestly think Quaresma could give us an edge in all those games when we struggle to create against entrenched defenses. However, Kuyt did very well in the CL last year, and I really like the guy and his personality, but in terms of handing us a title my money would be on Quaresma...

 

I know nothing of Quaresma's personality and attitudes so I cannot pass a judgement on those, but his talent, pace and technique is unquestionable...

[igor biscan]

Goal.com - Inter Milan - Sacchi Tells Inter: Quaresma Is Average

 

Sacchi Tells Inter: Quaresma Is Average

 

Former Italy coach, Arrigo Sacchi, has warned Inter against the pitfalls of signing Ricardo Quaresma from Porto and he believes the Nerazzurri have not been impressive during the transfer window so far.

 

 

Jose Mourinho has been after the Porto midfielder ever since Frank Lampard’s Move to the San Siro became unlikely.

 

Reports in Portugal on Monday claimed that a deal to bring the Portuguese international to Serie A was imminent and that he could arrive this week.

 

However, Sacchi doesn’t think Quaresma is the right man for the Beneamata.

 

“He (Quaresma) is not a champion,” Sacchi told La Gazzetta Dello Sport.

 

“When he has a good day he will give other players problems but often he doesn’t make the difference.

 

“When he was young he seemed like a champion but now he’s just an ordinary player.”

 

“As for Inter’s transfers, it hardly seems enthusiastic. Mancini and Muntari don’t seem to excite fantasy.

 

“They are still favourites for the Scudetto but I don’t think they have improved on last season.”

 

Harsh words from the former Milan tactician. Now it’s up to Jose Mourinho to prove Sacchi wrong as he prepares to dominate Serie A.

 

Salvatore Landolina

[Stu Monty]

There's a cat and dog scenario here. I was watching Life of Mammals last night and there's definitely a cats & dogs analogy on the cards. Dogs hunt using communication, teamwork and selflessness, they share the spoils with others. Cats work on their own, they have superior pace and finish the job more clinically.

 

I fucking hate cats. The cunts.

[Guest ian garro]

 

I fucking hate cats. The cunts.

 

Is right.

[Rashid]

Sacchi the man for total football.

[Xabi D]

Goal.com - Inter Milan - Sacchi Tells Inter: Quaresma Is Average

 

Sacchi Tells Inter: Quaresma Is Average

 

Former Italy coach, Arrigo Sacchi, has warned Inter against the pitfalls of signing Ricardo Quaresma from Porto and he believes the Nerazzurri have not been impressive during the transfer window so far.

 

 

Jose Mourinho has been after the Porto midfielder ever since Frank Lampard’s Move to the San Siro became unlikely.

 

Reports in Portugal on Monday claimed that a deal to bring the Portuguese international to Serie A was imminent and that he could arrive this week.

 

However, Sacchi doesn’t think Quaresma is the right man for the Beneamata.

 

“He (Quaresma) is not a champion,” Sacchi told La Gazzetta Dello Sport.

 

“When he has a good day he will give other players problems but often he doesn’t make the difference.

 

“When he was young he seemed like a champion but now he’s just an ordinary player.”

 

“As for Inter’s transfers, it hardly seems enthusiastic. Mancini and Muntari don’t seem to excite fantasy.

 

“They are still favourites for the Scudetto but I don’t think they have improved on last season.”

 

Harsh words from the former Milan tactician. Now it’s up to Jose Mourinho to prove Sacchi wrong as he prepares to dominate Serie A.

 

Salvatore Landolina

 

To be fair Sacchi did say last summer we should have signed Adriano instead of Torres and how Torres wasn't that special.

[Stu Monty]

Rashid, you've already proven you don't understand total football. Don't you remember that?

[Code]

To be fair Sacchi did say last summer we should have signed Adriano instead of Torres and how Torres wasn't that special.

 

Last time Sacchi won anything was back in 1990.

[RedKnight]

As if by magic...

[Hamma]

Stu, you think one in three for one of the top sides in the world as their number one striker is "very respectable"?

 

Hatred, I think the question is how many of the top sides have more than 1 striker or forward with a rate better than 1 in 3. Off the top of my head I really don't recall many prolific strikers/ forwards from last season.