Citeh Thread

[D.I.C.]

It was a stupid comment about Rafa and him always taking a draw away from home but how else should we take it? We are a totally different team away from home, set up to play a totally different way too. How many of Arse, Man U and Chelsea play differently away from home against the likes of Villa, Man City etc? Did we really need two holding players, a left back at left midfield and a midfielder up front today? The only real 'attacking' players we had today was Pennant, Kuyt and Gerrard at a push against a team who wanted a draw at home. It is very frustrating, it's points dropped away to the likes of Villa and Man City that have stopped us challenging for the league.

[Strontium]

We bought Crouch for those Difficult Away Games™. And then we hardly ever play him in them. Call me Mr Confused.

[D.I.C.]

We bought Crouch for those Difficult Away Games™. And then we hardly ever play him in them. Call me Mr Confused.

 

Yes we did, but how are strikers supposed to show their worth playing in front of nearly a whole team of defensive players? Our team today is one I'd expect away to Man United and Chelsea not Man City, that's what's frustrating. Gonzalez and Crouch should have both started, with Gerrard in CM but then I guess we are saving players to be at their peak in the CL and none of us will complain when we win it!!

[George Costanza]

, it's points dropped away to the likes of Villa and Man City that have stopped us challenging for the league.

 

losing our first 5 aways did it for me. We have completely the wrong attitude and mental application away from home under Rafa. To be brutally bleak and honest too many games the players have looked/given the impression they don't give a shit. Even fucking united away this season was a fucking joke. No pride, no passion, no nothing.

 

Today, like Villa was a pretty meaningless game. But to come out with those two performances IMO is a disgrace and a lack of appreciation for those who travelled to support the lads.

 

So our season is all about the CL. What about gaining and maintaining some momentum. Does Rafa and the players think they can turn it on and off like a tap. An incredibly dangerous game to play.

[D.I.C.]

losing our first 5 aways did it for me. We have completely the wrong attitude and mental application away from home under Rafa. To be brutally bleak and honest too many games the players have looked/given the impression they don't give a shit. Even fucking united away this season was a fucking joke. No pride, no passion, no nothing.

 

Today, like Villa was a pretty meaningless game. But to come out with those two performances IMO is a disgrace and a lack of appreciation for those who travelled to support the lads.

 

So our season is all about the CL. What about gaining and maintaining some momentum. Does Rafa and the players think they can turn it on and off like a tap. An incredibly dangerous game to play.

 

This is the worst United team to be challenging for the top trophies in living memory, but they are on a roll, and hammering teams even when they play shit like today. It's call momentum, something they have had because they treated the first 10 games this season like cup finals.

[George Costanza]

This is the worst United team to be challenging for the top trophies in living memory, but they are on a roll, and hammering teams even when they play shit like today. It's call momentum, something they have had because they treated the first 10 games this season like cup finals.

 

They attack teams. 75% of the premiership are shite. Fergie knows this and knows that as long as they keep attacking they will score more than the opponents.

[Strontium]

They have Rooney, Giggs and Ronaldo, three players who will run at defenders all day long, and beat them time and time again. I don't think I've seen Gonzalez and Pennant beat a man all season*. This is where United's strength lies.

 

 

* may be an exaggeration

[Sweeney287]

Yes we did, but how are strikers supposed to show their but then I guess we are saving players to be at their peak in the CL and none of us will complain when we win it!!

 

We are either playing for 3rd or 4th, but we should still be going to places like the COMS and winning, and winning comfortably.

 

However, I would quite happily, at this current stage of the season, swap CL glroy, for 3 points against Citeh:thumbup:

[Red Nick]

Victory against Boro more or less guarantees CL footie next season

[Sangria]

I will hold fire until next year, sad as it is we are only going through the paces. If we are still seeing performances like that, this time next year I will be seriously concerned.

Or should I say if we are seeing away performances like that at the start of the season, I will be seriously concerned.

[Paul]

I really can't get worked up about it, to be honest, as I hadn't forked out to be there (feel sorry, once again, for the travelling Reds) and the game was irrelevant to all intents and purposes. However, it was indicative of our major problem this season: Rafa's bizarre inability to translate what he has done in other contexts to games away from home in the league.

 

I have been saying for months how strange it is that he ditched the successful tactic from last season of using Crouch as both the fulcrum of the attack with Gerrard breaking off him, and as the outlet for the ball when we're under pressure defensively. Rafa seems to have decided that he wants Dirk to fill Crouch's boots in the role, yet he's just not suited to the task as both his touch and ability to retain possession are average at best.

 

The other time Rafa has got it right away from home is in Europe. Why can't we play with the controlled aggression and early high tempo that we use on the continent? It works and we are talking about applying it to lesser sides, after all. My main problem with our away form in the league this season is that I simply don't understand what's going on in Rafa's head. Why does he think the same failed approach will eventually bear fruit?

 

Oh well, fuck it! As John said on his thread, we've got far bigger fish to fry; this is one for next season now.

[D.I.C.]

I really can't get worked up about it, to be honest, as I hadn't forked out to be there (feel sorry, once again, for the travelling Reds) and the game was irrelevant to all intents and purposes. However, it was indicative of our major problem this season: Rafa's bizarre inability to translate what he has done in other contexts to games away from home in the league.

 

I have been saying for months how strange it is that he ditched the successful tactic from last season of using Crouch as both the fulcrum of the attack with Gerrard breaking off him, and as the outlet for the ball when we're under pressure defensively. Rafa seems to have decided that he wants Dirk to fill Crouch's boots in the role, yet he's just not suited to the task as both his touch and ability to retain possession are average at best.

 

The other time Rafa has got it right away from home is in Europe. Why can't we play with the controlled aggression and early high tempo that we use on the continent? It works and we are talking about applying it to lesser sides, after all. My main problem with our away form in the league this season is that I simply don't understand what's going on in Rafa's head. Why does he think the same failed approach will eventually bear fruit?

 

Oh well, fuck it! As John said on his thread, we've got far bigger fish to fry; this is one for next season now.

 

European teams don't show the determination to win at home as teams in the PL do, quite simple really. By playing the tactics we do away from home we allow the home side to take the initiative and then struggle from there on in. We stay strong in defence hoping to nick it. If you look at United they attack 75% of teams right from the off because 75% of teams in this league are poor.

[coop]

Not many of our players got stuck in yesterday and it typical end of season game where neither team has anything to play for. You can half understand the players in that they dont want to get injured with the Champs Lge semis coming up but if that was the case play some of the squad players who are hungry for a game and rest the top players.

 

Regards our tactics, i will be fucking gutted next season if we arent lining up with fast attacking players on either wing and playing them home and away. Go at teams attack the fuckers, dont change our formation to suit a team like Bolton or Sheff Utd play an attacking game and let them change their formation to try and stop us.

 

Its been proven this season that they way to win the league is to attack teams home and away. Can you imagine us going to Bolton and winning 5-1 no it would happen.

 

Fuck me if a team that conatins O'Shea, Carrick, Fletcher and Richardson be top of the league, in the FA Cup Final and Champs Lge semi final then what the fuck are we doing playing shite and seemingly happy at finishing 3rd this season. We must be the Grand daddy of shitness then if thats the case.

 

In the summer Rafa should have funds made available to buy the players to allow us to attack teams safe in the knowledge that we have a strong back four and Mascherano protecting them. You have Alonso who covers stays deep so that would be 6 defensive minded players on the pitch (7 if you include the goalie) so that leaves 4 other players. Make the fuckers attackers not attackers who can defend, out and out attackers who will scare the shit out of the opposition. Two fast skillful wingers and either 2 strikers or 1 striker and 1 creative player.

 

No more of this defensive shit against poor teams please Rafa.

[D.I.C.]

The Spaniard said: "I am really disappointed with that performance. We should have been able to score when we were on top in the first half and controlling the game.

 

"But the way we played after the break was poor. Every time they had a long ball, a long throw or a free-kick we seemed to be under pressure.

 

"I do not think my players had other things on their minds, we had talked beforehand about making sure we were focused for the league games.

 

"We could have had a penalty at the beginning when Jermaine Pennant was pulled back, but they are saying the ball hit Jamie Carragher on the arm at the end, and that probably cancelled out the incidents."

 

 

Reading Rafa's comments shows the importance of keeping a clean sheet and making sure we take our chances when we get them. Which is fine, and a good sensible approach. BUT we won't win this league with that attitude, it lets teams like Citeh off the hook where our superior quality should have the beating of them.

[MLB]

"Controlling the game", especially away from home, is the Rafa philosophy that has so far prevented us from challenging for the title, and will continue to do so in future if he sticks by it.

[Spy Bee]

You're both talking shit. Do you really think that Rafa wants to control the game for the sake of controlling the game, or do you think he wants to do it so that we can win? It's a no brainer.

 

I notice Rash is getting comfortabel and beginning to spout more shite!

[Stephen Adams.]

He's started talkin about Chelsea, Arsenal and the mancs again.

How are Arsenal doing again?

[D.I.C.]

You're both talking shit. Do you really think that Rafa wants to control the game for the sake of controlling the game, or do you think he wants to do it so that we can win? It's a no brainer.

 

How do you define "controlling the game"? I am sure what Rafa means by that is that the opposition can't score and we are probing away to get a goal - ie there is no danger to us in conceding.

 

If we were really "controlling the game", then we should be picking them off and make goal scoring opportunities. We hardly did that did we? I don't remember a clear cut chance, I appreciate that it's not a God given right that we hammer City 4-0 at Eastlands but if we are controlling the game then surely we will be creating a few chances in the game?

 

Controlling the game is a pragmatic attitude, like a boxer who is hell bent on going the distance with his defences up hoping to get a blow in himself. It's not talking shit it's stating how I see it. The problem is that this might work in Spain but in England, you have to get maximum points from these kind of games to win the league. Playing a midfielder up front, a defender at left midfield and two holding players may "control the game" but is it really attacking enough to score goals and win these kind of games? We haven't scored in nearly a 1/3 of our league games so far this season and therin lies the problem.

[coop]

Yesterday we played a team who have the 2nd worst attack in the Premier League yet still played with at least 7 defensively minded outfield players. Im sorry but i have to agree with Rash - none of the other top 4 would have gone there and been so defensive. We have to unleash the shackles every now and again

[Spy Bee]

Does it really matter for the rest of the season though? Isn't it better that we do as much as we have to secure champions league football and have a team that is fit and strong enough to win the champions league?

 

If we went to City first game on next season with the same lineup then I might agree with you.

 

If everyone knows it's Rashid why isn't he banned again?

 

EDIT: City's recent record was very good too.

[Paul]

European teams don't show the determination to win at home as teams in the PL do, quite simple really. By playing the tactics we do away from home we allow the home side to take the initiative and then struggle from there on in. We stay strong in defence hoping to nick it. If you look at United they attack 75% of teams right from the off because 75% of teams in this league are poor.

 

First of all, that's utter rubbish. Are you saying the likes of Barca, Juve, Olympiacos, Benfica, etc, etc, etc, just thought, "Fuck it; they can win"? However, even if it was true, why the fuck are you arguing when you go on to make exactly the same point I did?

[Red Nick]

Benitez had his own, more pressing problems. Having reached the Champions League semi-finals, and with a clash with Chelsea on the horizon, a large proportion of his side just went through the motions.

 

And he was livid. This is not a man to have his carefully-laid plans messed around by players not doing what they are told, and the next few days at Melwood could be interesting.

 

Benitez wanted at least two wins this week from three league games to allow total concentration on Chelsea with third-place in the Premiership all wrapped up.

 

He tried hard to defend his team, claiming rightly they had dominated much of the early play and should have been out of sight with the points.

 

But he was as angry as many observers have seen in three years, and issued a thinly-veiled threat that players still have to prove their worth to play against Chelsea.

 

Benitez said: "They must know that every game is important for them. If you want to play in a semi-final you need the confidence of the manager and to show people, as well as me, that you are ready.

 

"We know what they can do as players, but it is important that they show they are in good form at the right moment."

 

Arsenal helped the cause by beating fifth-placed Bolton and ensuring Champions League qualification is almost certain for themselves and Liverpool.

 

But Benitez wants third spot and the right to say his team have finished above the Gunners for two successive seasons.

 

He said: "We talked beforehand about how important these three league games this week are to us. They knew how I felt and the need to win two games to make sure of fourth, and then third, place.

 

"Then it would be finished, all the talk of securing a top four place. It would be done and we could be playing league games without any pressure, leaving us to concentrate on the Champions League semi-final matches.

 

"That is why it was important to win at City. We also knew that Bolton were at Arsenal and we needed to make sure we could not be caught by them.

 

"Arsenal won, which makes it clearer for us as far as finishing in the top four. The gap has grown. But why do we have to wait right to the end to achieve what we want when we can do it ahead of the Chelsea games?"

 

And Benitez was also concerned about how poorly Liverpool handled the quick, long ball into the box. It is a tactic Chelsea operate, and far better than City.

 

Benitez said: "From corners, free-kicks and throw-ins we were under pressure, we did not have to be in that position. If we had taken our chances in the first half we would have won long before they could put us under that sort of pressure.

 

"I do not think we were tired after the Champions League win. We started the game well and had plenty of possession.

 

"We moved the ball well, used the width of the pitch and made good use of Steven Gerrard playing between the midfield and attack.

 

"But in the second half, from just one long ball or a free-kick, we were under pressure."

[D.I.C.]

First of all, that's utter rubbish. Are you saying the likes of Barca, Juve, Olympiacos, Benfica, etc, etc, etc, just thought, "Fuck it; they can win"? However, even if it was true, why the fuck are you arguing when you go on to make exactly the same point I did?

 

I am saying that in European leagues you can get away with far more draws and defeats than you can here (in order to win the league). So if we want to win the league we have to go for the 3 points right from the off in virtually every game. Not only do we have to control the game, we also have to play with quality at a high tempo to score goals. My question was whether we needed 7-8 defensive players agains ta team that hasn't scored at home since 1st Jan?

 

The likes of Barca, Juve, Olympiacos, Benfica, etc don't have to win the number of games we do in a season to win their leagues...

[Zippy]

European teams don't show the determination to win at home as teams in the PL do, quite simple really. By playing the tactics we do away from home we allow the home side to take the initiative and then struggle from there on in. We stay strong in defence hoping to nick it. If you look at United they attack 75% of teams right from the off because 75% of teams in this league are poor.

 

 

I think the mentality is part of the reason but we also lack the creative players and penetration to put these teams to the sword as often as we should.

 

How many players do we have in the team who can consistently beat a man? None.

 

How many players do we have with a lot of pace combined with technique? One or two.

 

How many players who are consistent goal threats do we have? One.

 

IMO until we rectify some of these problems then we will lag behind in the premiership.

[Red Nick]

I think the mentality is part of the reason but we also lack the creative players and penetration to put these teams to the sword as often as we should.

 

How many players do we have in the team who can consistently beat a man? None.

 

How many players do we have with a lot of pace combined with technique? One or two.

 

How many players who are consistent goal threats do we have? One.

 

IMO until we rectify some of these problems then we will lag behind in the premiership.

 

We lack that extra quality that the other 3 clubs have remember Chelea v Spurs in the cup and Spurs were the better team but a peice of true quality from Schevchenko won them the game, the problem has been is that quality doesnt come cheap