Israel - A Rant

[Carradona]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Something me and the Mrs have been going back and forth on for a while.

 

You are in charge, day one, what do you do?

 

Ideas around two state solutions seem fanciful, you can’t just move entire populations etc

 

What is a ‘reasonable’ best case solution?

 

We’re damned if we know and there’s few realistic options.

String up Netanyahu and all his supporters on any remaining lamp posts in Gaza.

[TheHowieLama]

There is less chance of a single state democratic solution than there is of agreeing on the 2002 initiative now.

[Jurgen Knows]

There has ALWAYS been no chance of racist supremacists agreeing to any option that involves equal rights. This is not about the “now”.

[Bruce Spanner]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

In charge of who/what?

Isreal/Palestine. 
 

You take over governance. 

[Bruce Spanner]

1 hour ago, Carradona said:

String up Netanyahu and all his supporters on any remaining lamp posts in Gaza.

Then what?

 

We know that should happen, but once they’re taken down from the lampposts how does it work? 
 

Obviously not being a dick, we’ve just started asking people this question as it’s a good thought experiment. 

[polymerpunkah]

7 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Leaving aside your 'etc', why would you be against Hamas being destroyed and hostages being released.

 

What do you think the terms of a ceasefire that could be agreed on by both sides would consist of?

Why would you think I'm opposed to either? 

 

They've already had one cease-fire without either, why not another? What were the terms then?

 

I just want the slaughter of innocent people to stop, immediately. Why don't you?

[Section_31]

They need UN peacekeepers in there, between Palestinian territory and Israel, work towards a two state solution with some kind of Marshall plan for Gaza (get the Emirates to chip in, half of Hallands wages would probably build a few schools), Israel getting support from the west would be contingent on them playing ball.

[Bruce Spanner]

10 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

They need UN peacekeepers in there, between Palestinian territory and Israel, work towards a two state solution with some kind of Marshall plan for Gaza (get the Emirates to chip in, half of Hallands wages would probably build a few schools), Israel getting support from the west would be contingent on them playing ball.

You move to democracy the Israelis are out voted, they’ll never go for it.

[Jurgen Knows]

Lies:

 

https://x.com/qudsnen/status/1737102535448752297?s=46&t=rTM5huSAdkyumn9JrNS_MQ

 

Truth:

 

https://x.com/shaykhsulaiman/status/1734536071336063271?s=46&t=rTM5huSAdkyumn9JrNS_MQ

[Jurgen Knows]

24 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

You move to democracy the Israelis are out voted, they’ll never go for it.

Logically the Zionists can only have 2 of these:

 

Democratic State - Jewish State - All of the land.

 

They cannot have all 3 without ethnically cleansing the Palestinians.

 

It is up to the international community to stop the ethnic cleansing and get them to answer the question which 2 of the 3 they want.

 

The Palestinians will probably refuse a non-democratic Jewish state on all of the land, but any other combination should be doable if you take the racist supremacists out of the equation.

That’s a job for the bastions of human rights and democracy to do, but it seems they have all been enjoying a sunbath at the pool lately.

[Gnasher]

 

 

 

[Jairzinho]

52 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Isreal/Palestine. 
 

You take over governance. 

 

Yeah, but of who? Israel? Palestine? The US? The UN?

 

Some of them could do stuff, others couldn't.

 

[TheHowieLama]

9 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yeah, but of who? Israel? Palestine? The US? The UN?

 

Some of them could do stuff, others couldn't.

 

 

All of those could do something.

Only one could effect an immediate ceasefire.

[Jairzinho]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

Only one could effect an immediate ceasefire.

 

No, I reckon Israel could as well.

[Bruce Spanner]

39 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yeah, but of who? Israel? Palestine? The US? The UN?

 

Some of them could do stuff, others couldn't.

 

You are that lands governance.

 

The rest are your problems.

[Jairzinho]

52 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

You are that lands governance.

 

The rest are your problems.

 

Ahh, so a fantasy role. Fair ehough. 

 

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

9 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Ahh, so a fantasy role. Fair ehough. 

 

 

 

No more fantasy than the current shitfest.

 

 

[Jairzinho]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

No more fantasy than the current shitfest.

 

 

Aye but as complex as the situation is, will is the issue. While the US keeps funding it nothing changes.

[Bruce Spanner]

11 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

 

Aye but as complex as the situation is, will is the issue. While the US keeps funding it nothing changes.

Yes, that was the original thought experiment.

[etho]

2 hours ago, Jurgen Knows said:

Logically the Zionists can only have 2 of these:

 

Democratic State - Jewish State - All of the land.

 

They cannot have all 3 without ethnically cleansing the Palestinians.

 

It is up to the international community to stop the ethnic cleansing and get them to answer the question which 2 of the 3 they want.

 

The Palestinians will probably refuse a non-democratic Jewish state on all of the land, but any other combination should be doable if you take the racist supremacists out of the equation.

That’s a job for the bastions of human rights and democracy to do, but it seems they have all been enjoying a sunbath at the pool lately.

This is an accurate summary. It’s the right, and fairest solution of all those available. Sadly won’t happen because of the fact it would mean there is no ‘Jewish state’. Worth noting that there is no other state in the world that declares itself the state of a religion (and it’s not really in the name of that religion really anyway). It would also dilute the us power to use Israel as a proxy state in the Middle East if all of its Arab inhabitants had equal voting rights. But it’s the most right solution and one the Arab would accept. 20 percent of the population of Israel already is an (oppressed) Arab Palestinian population who just want equal opportunities and probably don’t really care what you call the land, they just want peace and equal rights.

its a failure of western democratic ideals to not enable this to be a reality 

[Jack the Sipper]

21 hours ago, polymerpunkah said:

But "sustainable ceasefire" just means what Israel wants: all hostages released, Hamas destroyed, etc.

 

Meaningless.

 

11 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Leaving aside your 'etc', why would you be against Hamas being destroyed and hostages being released.

 

What do you think the terms of a ceasefire that could be agreed on by both sides would consist of?

 

4 hours ago, polymerpunkah said:

Why would you think I'm opposed to either? 

 

They've already had one cease-fire without either, why not another? What were the terms then?

 

I just want the slaughter of innocent people to stop, immediately. Why don't you?

 

Well, the fact that you called a 'sustainable ceasefire' that involves hostages being released and Hamas destroyed 'meaningless'. 

 

And they never had a 'ceasefire', but a 'pause in the fighting' If we're going to bandy these terms about and stick inverted commas around them then let's do it right. It was always the case that fighting would resume, unless all the Israeli hostages were released and Hamas surrendered. If you 'just want the slaughter to stop' wouldn't you be in favour of Hamas surrendering? Or is it because that's what Israel wants it's a step too far for you?

 

 

[Jack the Sipper]

7 hours ago, No2 said:

Hamas can't be destroyed. Hamas is just a name, you could kill all the leaders, kill their families, kill the next in line and their families, even PR the name out of existence but what they represent can't be destroyed. 

 

Not necessarily. There's always the possibility that a new representative of the Palestinian people could be secular rather than Islamist, political rather than militant, democratic rather than dictatorial. 

 

If, as so many think, Israel created Hamas to further its own ends, doesn't it stand to reason that an organisation that was the complete opposite to what they created would be more effective in representing the Palestinian cause?

[Arniepie]

[Jack the Sipper]

4 hours ago, polymerpunkah said:

Why would you think I'm opposed to either? 

 

They've already had one cease-fire without either, why not another? What were the terms then?

 

I just want the slaughter of innocent people to stop, immediately. Why don't you?

 

I forgot to add that, I do want the slaughter of innocents to stop, which is why I support a ceasefire, and always have done, and which is why I questioned you calling a ceasefire that involves, as you put it 'all hostages released, Hamas destroyed' as 'meaningless'.

 

My support for a ceasefire, and the thousands of lives saved isn't conditional on whether or not 'Israel gets it's own way'. I just want lives saved at this point.

[Jairzinho]

8 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

 

Christ, he really is one massive, massive fucking cunt.